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#1
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spring weather jacket (shell)
So, I have a Couloir ski jacket from several years ago. It has many
features: It has oodles of pockets. It covers my butt and has a powder skirt. It fits. It's comfy. It looks good. It's warm. For Maine and A-Basin, it's great. Did I mention it's warm? God, is it warm. Toasty. Roasting. This weekend, which was sunny with highs in the mid-30s and no wind, I stripped down to just a synth thermal shirt, foregoing the usual turtleneck, and I was *still* sweating by the first few turns. (Granted, it was a mogul run, and some of that sweat was certainly from fear.) It finally occurs to me that I can't strip much farther than that without peeling off layers of skin. This problem is pretty new to me, as my life is spent seeking out extra layers, blankets, and hot beverages to keep myself from freezing. I'm practically cold-blooded; that is to say, my circulation doesn't circulate very well. Anyhoo. My s.o. gave me a $100 REI gift certificate for Christmas, and he recently suggested that maybe I should hunt down a lightweight shell for spring conditions. Something wind- and waterproof with no liner whatsoever. Being soaked in sweat on the lift is just no fun. Off I go ... So, apparently, lightweight stuff is just as expensive as heavy stuff. Furthermore, lightweight stuff does not tend to have much in the way of pockets. Women's lightweight stuff appears to be designed without any thought to fitting layers underneath, not to mention the truly butt-ugly shades of grey and beige that seem to be preferred. Men's lightweight stuff is much roomier, except in the hips, which makes it difficult to zip up. I finally settled on this: http://tinyurl.com/2qk6z (REI Ultra Light Jacket, Women's XL) $125. One breast pocket and two huge hand-level pockets, but no inside pockets or arm pockets. It comes down far enough over my snow pants that I'm not worried about wind sneaking in the sides. The hood is removeable, and will certainly be removed, as it won't fit over my helmet, anyway. It has *huge* pit vents; more like full arm and side vents. It sure seems like a lot of money, but there were much more expensive options, and anyway, I could use this both as a generic rain jacket and as a cycling layer (neither of which I currently own). The question: does anyone have experience with this or similar styles of jackets being used for skiing? Could anyone share their advice, alternate suggestions, etc? Sorry for the great american novel. -- monique |
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#2
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Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip The question: does anyone have experience with this or similar styles of jackets being used for skiing? Could anyone share their advice, alternate suggestions, etc? Sorry for the great american novel. I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned (helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts warming up. Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex hooded affair. I think it's like this one http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was, but it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take it hiking and backpacking in the summer too. Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap stuff, especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I don't like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and I could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell for something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's still in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell I've only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and sent it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company who stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get what you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a good investment. Matt |
#3
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On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote: snip I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned (helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts warming up. Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex hooded affair. I think it's like this one http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was, but it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take it hiking and backpacking in the summer too. Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap stuff, especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I don't like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and I could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell for something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's still in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell I've only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and sent it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company who stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get what you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a good investment. Matt Thanks for the insight! Naturally, the model of Moonstone that you link isn't available in women's styles =P Then again, their women's styles seem to cut in far too much at the waist, which I think might be a problem for layers. I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock. I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have available. The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can find, but it can't hurt to shop around. Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the Boulder/Longmont area? -- monique |
#4
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Monique Y. Herman wrote:
I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock. Survival gear is pricey - so's dying. But sticker shock can be circuvented. What I've done for decades is to keep an eye on the discounters - North Face outlet, REI, Wilderness Exchange, Mountain Hardware's shop-front store (it helps to be in Berkeley occasionally, but there are others, and there's always the net) and buy ahead of need when quality and features meet price at an appropriately point. Which means I've kept a brand new parka in storage waiting for it's predecesssor to wear out, which it finally did earlier this year as illustrated by it's seams beginning to leak, and zippers breaking, and the fraying at the cuffs, and the various leaky glue on patches from encounters with trees . So I just moved on to the new parka which I bought at much less than half retail two years ago without skipping a beat. It also means I need to start watching for my next parka at a good price and be ready to buy. |
#5
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On 2004-01-13, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote: I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock. Survival gear is pricey - so's dying. But sticker shock can be circuvented. What I've done for decades is to keep an eye on the discounters - North Face outlet, REI, Wilderness Exchange, Mountain Hardware's shop-front store (it helps to be in Berkeley occasionally, but there are others, and there's always the net) and buy ahead of need when quality and features meet price at an appropriately point. Which means I've kept a brand new parka in storage waiting for it's predecesssor to wear out, which it finally did earlier this year as illustrated by it's seams beginning to leak, and zippers breaking, and the fraying at the cuffs, and the various leaky glue on patches from encounters with trees . So I just moved on to the new parka which I bought at much less than half retail two years ago without skipping a beat. It also means I need to start watching for my next parka at a good price and be ready to buy. That sounds like a wonderful idea. I'm not very good at shopping smart, though, and if I bought something ahead of time, I have no doubt I'd immediately start using my new toy, even when the old one was perfectly good. -- monique "impulse buyer extraordinaire" |
#6
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Monique Y. Herman wrote:
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: snip I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock. I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have available. The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can find, but it can't hurt to shop around. Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the Boulder/Longmont area? Also see what outlets are in Silverthorn next time you're that way. I forget what's there, but there may be a NF outet. Otherwise try googling for Colorado outlet stores for the brands you like (or might like). I'm sure there's some out there somewhere. Lucky for me the Mrs works at a shop that carries Moonstone. I just got some new pants for $85 on the employee deal. Usually I buy the stuff in the wrong season at a big discount, but if you need it now than that's out. Something to look out for next summer. Another way to go is to keep an eye out for old Patagonia stuff at goodwill shops. If you can find something that's all worn out you can send it in to Patagonia and they may just replace it (or repair at their discretion). I have a friend who bought a haggard Patagonia shell for $30 and then sent it in and got a brand new one in return. Great deal! Matt |
#7
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On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned: Also see what outlets are in Silverthorn next time you're that way. I forget what's there, but there may be a NF outet. Otherwise try googling for Colorado outlet stores for the brands you like (or might like). I'm sure there's some out there somewhere. Actually, I believe there's a NF outlet in Boulder. I see it all the time on the way up to the mountains =) Never been in it, though. I browsed the EMS website and found this: http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6 (EMS Summit Parka, Women's) The local store has them in stock. Much heavier than the one I bought, but looks more featureful, too. I'll check it out as soon as I get my car back from the shop *sigh*. Lucky for me the Mrs works at a shop that carries Moonstone. I just got some new pants for $85 on the employee deal. Usually I buy the stuff in the wrong season at a big discount, but if you need it now than that's out. Something to look out for next summer. Nice! Yeah, I'm awful about buying things when they're most expensive. Another way to go is to keep an eye out for old Patagonia stuff at goodwill shops. If you can find something that's all worn out you can send it in to Patagonia and they may just replace it (or repair at their discretion). I have a friend who bought a haggard Patagonia shell for $30 and then sent it in and got a brand new one in return. Great deal! Great deal, but I don't think I'd be comfortable doing that. -- monique |
#8
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On 2004-01-14, Bob Lee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote: Sierra Trading Post can be a good on-line source for inexpensive quality skiing apparel. Closeouts mostly, with a lot of high-end brands: http://tinyurl.com/3c2cb Thank you, but I'm loathe to buy clothing online. You just can't tell exactly how it will fit or how good the quality is. And if I find something in a bricks-n-mortar store, I feel like I need to support physical shops by buying there. I returned the REI jacket -- after a day's reflection, it just wasn't what I wanted. It seemed like a great rain jacket, but not suited for skiing. I picked up the EMS shell I mentioned befo http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6 (EMS Summit Parka, Women's) It's longer, has a powder skirt, has three outer pockets and two inner, and generally feels sturdier and more like a ski jacket. Made out of GoreTex XCR. The XL is roomy even with long johns and a turtleneck underneath, and it has the teeth for a zip-in liner, though I'm not a fan of that route. My only complaints are the lack of an obvious lift ticket spot, the lack of a bicep pocket, and the presence of a hood, which in my opinion looks kind of dorky when rolled up. It has the look and feel of a well-made piece of clothing, with obvious attention to detail. I'm going to keep the tags on it a few more days before deciding for sure, though. We'll probably be mountain biking instead of skiing this weekend, anyway, if weather predictions hold true. It was a $299 jacket on sale for $209, though I don't know whether EMS is one of those "on sale all the time" kinds of places. -- monique |
#9
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
: On 2004-01-14, Bob Lee penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: Sierra Trading Post can be a good on-line source for inexpensive quality skiing apparel. Closeouts mostly, with a lot of high-end brands: http://tinyurl.com/3c2cb Thank you, but I'm loathe to buy clothing online. You just can't tell exactly how it will fit or how good the quality is. And if I find something in a bricks-n-mortar store, I feel like I need to support physical shops by buying there. I returned the REI jacket -- after a day's reflection, it just wasn't what I wanted. It seemed like a great rain jacket, but not suited for skiing. I picked up the EMS shell I mentioned befo http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6 (EMS Summit Parka, Women's) It's longer, has a powder skirt, has three outer pockets and two inner, and generally feels sturdier and more like a ski jacket. Made out of GoreTex XCR. The XL is roomy even with long johns and a turtleneck underneath, and it has the teeth for a zip-in liner, though I'm not a fan of that route. My only complaints are the lack of an obvious lift ticket spot, the lack of a bicep pocket, and the presence of a hood, which in my opinion looks kind of dorky when rolled up. It has the look and feel of a well-made piece of clothing, with obvious attention to detail. I'm going to keep the tags on it a few more days before deciding for sure, though. We'll probably be mountain biking instead of skiing this weekend, anyway, if weather predictions hold true. It was a $299 jacket on sale for $209, though I don't know whether EMS is one of those "on sale all the time" kinds of places. EMS which means EASTERN Mountain Sports is a GREAT store. They are not necessarily a discounter, though they will have seasonal sales. They do not sell through anyone else. They reverse engineer other people's lines and offer them at better prices, while the store is carrying the original. For instance, the EMS store sells The North Face as well as others plus its own house brand. I bought an EMS clone of a North Face Denali fleece jacket which is every bit as good and may be a little better than the North Face original for 50 bucks less. Further, I have EMS stores within 15 miles in either direction and the home office is in Peterborough, NH, close to where my daughter lives and is where you can get EMS closeouts and blemished merchandise at good (though not Sierra Trading Post) prices. They are mountaineering specialists, not a ski shop. In fact they don't sell any alpine gear at all. A lot of cross country and some Tele is all. But lots of climbing gear and GREAT clothing. The also have kayaks, canoes, and the like. I tend to buy inner layers from Sierra. I like to get long johns, fleece and socks from them, but I generally like to try jackets on too. RW |
#10
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On 2004-01-14, Richard Walsh penned:
EMS which means EASTERN Mountain Sports is a GREAT store. They are not necessarily a discounter, though they will have seasonal sales. They do not sell through anyone else. They reverse engineer other people's lines and offer them at better prices, while the store is carrying the original. Interesting. I bought an EMS clone of a North Face Denali fleece jacket which is every bit as good and may be a little better than the North Face original for 50 bucks less. I guess I don't know enough about the different brands to even guess at whether this shell is a knock-off of someone else's, let alone whose; but it seems like a nicely made item, regardless. They are mountaineering specialists, not a ski shop. In fact they don't sell any alpine gear at all. A lot of cross country and some Tele is all. But lots of climbing gear and GREAT clothing. The also have kayaks, canoes, and the like. This may vary by location. I've been to an EMS in Virginia that seemed to specialize more toward watery sports. The EMS here in Boulder (yes, despite being *eastern*, there's one here in Colorado) sells a variety of winter stuff right now, as well as climbing, camping, etc. The shell I bought specifically calls out skiing as a primary use. I tend to buy inner layers from Sierra. I like to get long johns, fleece and socks from them, but I generally like to try jackets on too. Okay, now I'm confused. What is Sierra and how does it relate to EMS? -- monique |
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