A Snow and ski forum. SkiBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SkiBanter forum » Skiing Newsgroups » Snowboarding
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Snowboarding or skiing?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old January 5th 04, 03:36 PM
Mike T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

Why would hard boots be better than soft boots? I've been to the
bomberonline Web site already, but it seems to assume preexisting

personal
experience of the difference between the two. Also, are hard boots for
snowboarding, as opposed to ski boots, difficult to find? Do most

ski/board
shops carry them, or are they a specialty item?


Snowboard hard boots are indeed difficult to find. There are some
shops that carry them, mostly in Vermont if I'm not mistaken, or one can
order them online.

One can start out in hard boots... it really helps to know someone who
can help you get started since resorts don't offer hardboot lessons
though. If you are interested, post on Bomber, there are several
hard-booters who ride at 7 Springs.


Mike T


Ads
  #22  
Old January 5th 04, 04:12 PM
paul m
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

couple of observations here...

first, there are only four resorts in the US that don't allow snowboarding, two
of which are in my state of utah (doh!) deer valley and alta, as well as taos
nm, and mad river glen in vermont.

second, stepins are a great option for learning how to snowboard. they save
you time, they allow you to get into the binding easier when you're not used to
placing your heel into something that is 90% of the time *not* directly under
you. burton makes IMO the best stepin setup, but k2, marker, rossignol, and
others make different step in mechanisms as well. i dont' want to waste a lot
of time debating the different systems, except to say that i started with the
rossi system, quickly moved to the burton system because of its better hold to
the binding, and then two years ago moved to straps, which are much better for
advanced riding, but thats another flame war in and of itself.

do *not* go with hard alpine boots to learn how to snowboard. the vernacular
sometimes isn't consistent, so some people refer to step in boots by burton, or
k2 or marker as "hard boots" which they are, as they have more internal
stiffening built in, but then other people say "hard boots" and mean the alpine
type that bomberonline tends to sell. one personal suggestion is that if you
go with harder step in type boots and bindings that you get a binding with a
high back. when i was learning it helped me greatly with edge to edge control,
although it did make getting into the binding a wee bit harder at first. just
an observation tho.

lastly, i think the general consensus on the newsgroup is correct with regards
to the learning curve for both sports. i *will* say tho that the learning
curve for me snowboarding has been more pronounced than skiing. in other
words, once i hit that intermediate level, my progression has been more obvious
and has come quicker than with skiing. but, with anything, the more you go,
the better you get. and i go a *lot*. now that i think of it, the more you
go in a smaller time frame, the better. if you only have 10 days to ski/ride
in the year, take as many of them as closely together as possible. that brain
to body reactive memory works better if its a day to day thing rather than a
week to week thing. all of that last part is my own stream of consciousness
thing tho, so take it as such.

oh, and snowboarding just feels sooooo gooooood! i never felt that skiing.
when i'm making turns on a deep pow day and i'm on something steep, it's the
best thing i've *ever* felt in my whole life. that having been said, i'm
seriously thinking of taking up telemarking so i can enjoy the backcountry
more. i don't mind bootpacking or snowshoeing, but when i see people skinning
up stuff quick as get out, i'm envious of the medium. i'm hesitant about split
boards, so that makes tele a real possibility.

anyhow, i'll shut up now. hopefully all of this and the other posts taken
together help you some.
ciao!
paul

Joe Ramirez wrote:

"Neil Gendzwill" wrote in message
om...
"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message

...
1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If

not,
what's the reality?


The first 2 days are tougher on a board than skis (you *will* be stiff
and sore). After that, snowboarding is a much faster path to
intermediate skill. Once you're an intermediate, I'd say the learning
curve to get to advanced/expert skill is about the same.


I don't know if I will be able to put in the time to become advanced in
either sport, but I certainly want to become an intermediate, so this is
comforting.

My skiing is rusty and my snowboarding pretty good, so with the
limited time I now have in the hills I tend to ride. If I could get
in more days I'd do both. If I could get in a lot of days I'd take up
telemarking. Sliding downhill on snow == big fun, no matter the
equipment.


Exactly what is telemarking? I've seen this term before but I don't know
what it means.

4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a

decent
rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or
brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there
something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get

"left
in the dust," so to speak?


The best solution to riding with skiers is to use step-in bindings, to
avoid the main problem which is them having to wait around while you
fiddle with straps.


Aha. That sounds like good advice if I reach that stage.

In fact, at your age and with your goals, I'd
recommend hard boots with an Intec-compatible stepin and an
all-mountain board. See www.bomberonline.com for more info on the
hard-booting experience, and one of the friendliest and most helpful
online communities. In particular check out the welcome centre
(http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/welcome_center.cfm) and the
forums

(http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti...p?s=&forumid=2).


Why would hard boots be better than soft boots? I've been to the
bomberonline Web site already, but it seems to assume preexisting personal
experience of the difference between the two. Also, are hard boots for
snowboarding, as opposed to ski boots, difficult to find? Do most ski/board
shops carry them, or are they a specialty item?

Thanks,

Joe Ramirez


  #23  
Old January 5th 04, 04:57 PM
Neil Gendzwill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

Joe Ramirez wrote:

Exactly what is telemarking? I've seen this term before but I don't know
what it means.


http://www.telemarknato.com/

Why would hard boots be better than soft boots?


Less pain, more control, better interface (especially the step-ins).
For all conditions except freestyle riding, hard boots are better. Some
people prefer softies for powder, but I like my hard boots fine there
too. And by hard, I mean hard plastic, snowboard-specific boots. They
look like ski boots but on close inspection you will see that they
are different. See
http://www.bomberonline.com/Store/bo...uxe_lemans.cfm for an
example. Older models of Raichle (now Deeluxe) are available for
reasonable prices.

Also, are hard boots for
snowboarding, as opposed to ski boots, difficult to find? Do most ski/board
shops carry them, or are they a specialty item?


They're hard to find, bomberonline can help you locate them or sell them
directly to you. A trick many people use is to try on the same brand of
ski boots in a ski shop for size, then order that size from bomber or
some other source.

However, you'll most likely rent the first few times out and that will
almost certainly be a soft rig. It is possible to learn on hardboots,
but the realities of equipment rental make it tough. After you're
hooked, then you can come over to the dark side of hardbooting.


Neil

  #24  
Old January 5th 04, 07:05 PM
Jason Watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If not,
what's the reality?


I've never tried skiing, but that seems correct from folks I've talked
to. What I do know is when I learned on a board, the first few days
are definately hard. But, after you climb that first step, you start
gaining confidence and ability very quickly. I went from barely being
able to turn to able to get down steep slopes in just one season.
Looking back now, I know that if I'd focused more when I was learning,
and had good instruction all the way through, I could have gone
through that much faster.

Right now I'd consider myself an intermediate freerider, which means I
can get down the double black diamond runs here, but not without
difficulty. Other people might call that advanced, but I've seen a few
*real* riders, so I evaluate myself lower on the scale . I feel like
I'm comming up on another step though... I think within the next
season or two the last things will click together, and I'll finally be
confident in trees and be able to bomb steep and bumpy. I'm pretty
conservative really, and don't push that hard or risk breaking myself
in half. I think that says something about how quickly you can move
through the intermediate stage freeriding on a board.

3. I understand that virtually all ski resorts now welcome snowboarders as
well. But are there any "skiers only" trails or slopes?


Not heard of anything like that. There are slopes that are hard on
boarders... we can't use poles to push oursleves accross long flats or
up hill. In your first few days this can be frustrating, but once you
get over the beginner hump, you'll be comfortable keeping enough speed
that you cruise past flats and short uphill sections.

4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a decent
rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or
brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there
something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get "left
in the dust," so to speak?


Depends on the skiiers ability compared to yours. I've boarded
alongside some folks I consider advanced skiiers, and I definately was
left way behind... but that's because they can straightline some of
the nastiest stuff on Mt Hood (hood locals, read as: straighlining
powderkeg). But, if you're riding with skiiers of similar ability,
meaning that you're both comfortable on the same kinds of terrain, I
find that you keep a pretty similar pace. It's mostly about what
terrain you're each comfortable with, not skis vs boards. And chances
are, they might complain about having to stop for a few seconds for
you to wait up, but inside they're thankful they've got an excuse to
catch their breath ;P.

If you're worried about your skiier buddies complaining while you
strap in at the tops of runs, step in bindings are quick. There's also
some strap style bindings that are quick to get into. The salomon
bindings I use have a toe strap that doesn't come all the way undone,
which speeds things up. Again, if you're riding with friends and past
the beginner hump it's really not an issue.

If you have folks who are willing to help you learn skiing, that might
be a factor. But, if you chose the board, I'd suggest you get some
pads and do a few lessons with a quality instructor to get through the
beginner hump quick and mostly painless. After that, if you just focus
on having a clean style and consistantly push your comfort limit in
small steps, you'll likely learn a lot quicker than I have .
  #25  
Old January 5th 04, 07:36 PM
Ace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

Joe,
I'll share based on my own personal experiences...take it for what
it's worth:

1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If not,
what's the reality?


I personally found snowboarding to be easier to learn, but a more
painful experience for the first day.

2. If you both ski and ride, which do you prefer, and why? If you ride but
don't ski, do you have any sense that you're missing out on an important
part of the winter mountain experience?


I do both, and I enjoy boarding more. Smoother feel, easier to
control, and..let's face it, it's just cooler.

4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a decent
rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or
brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there
something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get "left
in the dust," so to speak?


You are no more at risk for awkwardness with skiiers than with
boarders. If you're main goal is to enjoy the experience with them,
you will find a way.

My dad just took up boarding (I'm 21, he's 46) and thought he was
going to hate it and take a pounding. The 'pounding' was much less
severe than he thought it would be, and next we go out he's boarding
again. You sound about as athletic as him. He only had minor skiing
experience. He would probably give you the same answers to your
questions that I have.

I agree with most on this thread...you'll have fun either way.

Enjoy,
Eric
  #26  
Old January 5th 04, 08:24 PM
Jürgen Schmadlak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

Joe Ramirez wrote:

Now, in 2. season, I come down the hill on my board as well as I
came down on ski 15 years ago. I will never go back to ski.

This is probably the most important consideration for me. Starting at a
relatively late age, and with limited time to spend on the slopes, I want to
able to achieve reasonable proficiency quickly enough to be able to enjoy
it. I don't want to spend years working at something each winter without
ever becoming more than an advanced beginner or low intermediate.


But remember: for a beginner skiing is easier. To enjoy it without
*pain* in every part of the body you need more time with the board
then you need with skiers.

And most important, don't try to learn it by yourself. Take a
lesson, two or three days is a good choice.

Have a lot of fun.

--
Satisfy your thirst for life!
NP: Bob Dylan - Shelter from the Storm
  #27  
Old January 5th 04, 08:28 PM
Sharkie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

"WeatherCam" wrote in message ...
As Steve says, it very much depends on your physical condition....if you are
carrying extra weight and really are not that flexible, then learning to
snowboard at age 42 can be quite painful and you will really feel the aches
and pains


True. Snowboarding is an athletic activity, and being in good shape
helps a lot. However people with lesser shape can learn as well.
What I recommend is taking a lesson, practicing on your own for a while,
then take a follow up lesson. This should introduce you into the sport
with minimal pain.

- just getting your straps done up around your boots and then
getting back up on your feet can be quite energetic if you have a bit of a
middle aged stomach....


It's one of the myths about straps - that you have to sit down to get
your boots strapped in. You don't. I use straps on my freeride board,
and basically I never sit down during my riding sessions. And I strap in
and out a lot (the hills I ride are short). Either find a flat spot,
or dig your downhill edge into the snow (while having your board
perpendicular to the fall-line), and you can strap in standing.

Besides the original poster can get a step-in, which I strongly recommend
in his case. Either that or flows bindings.
  #28  
Old January 5th 04, 08:37 PM
Sharkie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message ...
Is it possible to "just go straight" on a snowboard? Or is constant back and
forth turning required to descend a slope?


It is possible but not recommended. You can get by going flat on
a relatively moderate inclined slopes (beginner areas), but on
more advanced terrain your speed will increase to a point where
going flat is dangerous. You can easily get thrown off to the side
by uneven snow surface and catch the downhill edge. This will slam
you down hard. Being slightly on the edge, on the other hand, gives
you the control you want at all time. And once you learn how to carve
you will WANT TO turn, since carving turns are a pure pleasure to perform.
You simply lean over the edge, and let the board turn for you (hence
the shape of the board). You will feel like one with the mountain.
Truly great experience.

Good luck in your learning!
  #29  
Old January 5th 04, 09:09 PM
Sharkie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?

(Beloved Leader) wrote in message . com...
I'm going to get flamed for this, but I'd start with skiing.


I won't flame you, although it's tempting
But I will counter this. It's not necessary to start with skiing
to enjoy snowboarding. The only time I would recommend skiing first
is with very small kids (3 years olds). Since at that age they don't
have the muscle strength nor the coordination to control the edges,
skiing will be easier for them. Once they are a little older though
(5-6 years, I would guess), they can safely switch to snowboarding.

beginner, you'll need to learn not only how to get down the hill, but
how to get up the hill as well. Riding a lift chair while you are
attached to skis is a much more natural activity than is riding a lift
chair while you are attached to a snowboard. For one thing, when you
are on skis, each foot is connected to some sort of a plank. Further,
on skis, you are facing the right direction when you get on and get
off the chair.


All these issues can be addressed by a qualified instructor. Once they are,
they won't be issues anymore. Yes, the stance is different than in skiing
(sideways as opposed to forward), but who said being forward is "right"?
On a snowboard a good stance is crucial to the learning curve, and
trying to be forward while riding is definitely "wrong".

In addtion, learning to board involves (requires?) falling. Much, much
falling.


If you learn on your own, yes. But snowboard instruction has developed
a lot over the years, and the emphasis now is to minimize the falling
when learning (and yes, I am an instructor).

Skis, since they can be
spread apart, provide an intrinsic stability not available with a
board.


This is a rather personal preference. My daughter when faced with
both skis and snowboard (a couple or years ago), chose snowboard
right away. She said she was afraid of the possibility of her skis
going two different ways.

I do feel that those who board exclusively and never get on skis are
missing something.


Possibly. But there are so many sports/activities out there, and only so
much time. Same could be said of "people who only mountain bike, but not
scuba dive miss something". For any new activity you take up, you need
all the equipment, and then time to learn it. It's better to focus
on a few that you will really enjoy, without worrying about what is
missed in the others.

But back to ski/snowboard - I did ski before, but find snowboarding
much more fun. I still know how to ski, but skiing now would be boring
for me. Snowboarding offers so much more.

Both ways of getting down the mountain are fun.


Definitely. But skiing have a tendency to become boring much faster
than snowboarding. I don't think you can outlive snowboarding (ie,
it NEVER becomes boring). Besides, look at snowboarders, they are
much more fanatical about this sport - there's a reason for this.
When I go riding in early/late season, or when the weather is bad,
snowboarders dominate the hills. Seems like a lot of skiers only go
out skiing on "perfect" days (sunny, warm, snow visible through the window).
  #30  
Old January 6th 04, 03:39 AM
Dmitry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Snowboarding or skiing?


"Joe Ramirez" wrote

For the record I skied for about 10 years, did no snowsports for 3, and
then started boarding at age 27. I'm 33 now and I plan to board my
entire life.


Another such vote. May I ask why? What converted you from skiing to
snowboarding?


One reason was already given here by somebody - snowboarding is a
more radical departure from the usual instinctive reactions, it
requires learning a substantially different set of skills compared
to what you are used to in daily life. Skiing has a somewhat more
conventional motorics involved. (try learning to kitesurf for
an ultimate brain melt).

The other reason might be that unlike skiers snowboarders have
an extra dimention of control over the edge of the board that is
digging the trench in the snow. Because both legs are attached
to the board, you can control the board's pressure distribution
along the edge by independently moving your ankles/feet/knees -
that's something skiers can't do.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions from a new skiing family Rich Heimlich General 11 March 2nd 04 03:46 PM
snowboarding with leg amputation lilly Snowboarding 8 December 30th 03 11:58 AM
Can you recommend a nice cross-country skiing place not far from NYC alex General 0 December 10th 03 04:59 PM
snowboarding and a bad back [email protected] Snowboarding 7 November 8th 03 04:50 AM
Looking for Skiing & Snowboarding Screensavers / Wallpaper User Snowboarding 0 September 12th 03 06:45 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SkiBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.