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Helmets



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 04, 04:07 PM
Steve Haigh
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Default Helmets

Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets?

On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be
approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of
weeks ago it was very close to zero.

Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive
(very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still
very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them
mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks.

On the plus side:
They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident.
(although I know of no proof)

On the down side:
Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was
a real pain, literally).
May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard
it said).
Too warm in spring/summer.

Thoughts?

Steve
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  #2  
Old January 20th 04, 04:29 PM
PG
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Default Helmets


"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...

| Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing
helmets?

For kids I think wearing helmets should be pushed more than it is....
The ESF calls it 'highly advisable' but not compulsory - maybe they
don't want to lose business..

Kids - mainly those on holiday - often go faster than their ability
allows, change direction at random, generally seem to be in a world of
their own on the pistes. When it's congested this can be really
hazardous. I've seen plenty of children taken out from behind by large
teenagers and the occasional adult, who don't allow enough overtaking
space.

A good thing about getting kids used to wearing a helmet right from the
start is that they're less bothered about the image thing as they get
older.

As for those doing a bit of competition... well there's no choice if
you're a club member. Still it's only partially reassuring when you're
watching 11 year olds going down the high speed 'kilomètre lancé' run at
Les Arcs at over 90 mph..... ,falling over is not recommended. And the
risks are just as high on days like today when the club spent the
morning skiing off piste through the forest.

Pete
http://www.skiclublesarcs.com


  #3  
Old January 20th 04, 04:39 PM
MoonMan
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Default Helmets

Steve Haigh wrote:
Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing
helmets?

On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to
be approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a
couple of weeks ago it was very close to zero.


Over new year, at les 2 Alpes I wore mine every day, and there seemed to be
a increasing number of people with helmets, but the reason I wore mine is
that it was cold and windy and a helmet is far more effective than a hat! on
the other hand I would not dream of racing or training through poles without
mine it just feels unsafe now.


Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very
pursuasive (very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I
guess it still very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of
making them mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else
thinks.


they are mandatory for dry slope racing and on many slopes for training
through poles or using jumps.
this is mainly brought on by the insurance companies.

On the plus side:
They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident.
(although I know of no proof)

On the down side:
Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought
was a real pain, literally).
May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've
heard it said).


this was a claim made against the compulsory wearing of motorbike helmets
and (Car) seat belts, AFAIK the oposite has proven to be the case ie the
accident rate (in the UK) has decreased not increased.

Too warm in spring/summer.


Too true, Adults tend to put their helmet on at the last possible time and
remove it as soon as they stop in Summer races, though children don't seem
to be so affected.


One reason I know some people won't wear helmets (or complain continuosely
about them if they have to wear them) is restriction of vision. personally I
don't notice this and One racer I know who would not wear a helmet for
training for this reason now does. ( The rather large dentist's bill for
replacing the crowns on both his front teeth may have had something to do
with this though.)


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk


  #4  
Old January 20th 04, 04:48 PM
Ace
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Default Helmets

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:53 +0000, Steve Haigh
wrote:

Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets?


Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive
(very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still
very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them
mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks.


Never worn one, never likely to. I just don't feel I need it.

On the plus side:
They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident.
(although I know of no proof)


I prefer to use the accident-avoidance tactic. Anything that might
result in head injury is going to be serious in other ways, so I want
to be as certain as I can be that it doesn't happen.

On the down side:


Hearing impairment. I don't even like to ski with a hood on if I can
avoid it, as I believe that hearing is of great value in maintaining
one's personal safety. I wouldn't want this compromised by wearing a
helmet.

May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard
it said).


As I understand it, it's something over which the wearer has little
control. If he feels less likely to be hurt, he will be inclined to go
faster, steeper or whatever. It would take a conscious effort to avoid
this risk-compensation, which is inherent to human nature.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #5  
Old January 20th 04, 04:48 PM
Ian Spare
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Default Helmets

Steve Haigh wrote:
Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets?

On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be
approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of
weeks ago it was very close to zero.


I saw a few round Flaine, but numerically it's probably near 0% :-)

I've a helmet I use for snow boarding where they're a little more
common. I use it on the board since I'd taken a couple of back edge
falls and banged my head painfully, on one occasion leaving me feel
groggy for a couple of days. I'm leaning to wearing for skiing as well,
on busy pistes near-collisions with high-speed out of control snow-users
seem to be getting more and more common.


On the plus side:
They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident.
(although I know of no proof)

On the down side:
Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was
a real pain, literally).
May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard
it said).
Too warm in spring/summer.


It's not a bad 'hat' in cold weather :-)
  #6  
Old January 20th 04, 05:23 PM
Carl Edwards
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Posts: n/a
Default Helmets

Thoughts?

Steve


Hmmm... I suppose it's OK to do without until you crash into a tree whilst
avoiding someone or get hit by a nutter skiier/boarder... then you'd wish
you were wearing one, I suppose.

I'm all for it for kids, who, in my opinion, are a lot more vulnerable to
injury at their height/lack of bodily coordination to 'fall right' (believe
me, over the years I have become particulary skilled in falling over on skis
and snowboards as I spend approximately 50% of my holiday doing it...)
Joking aside, I think that you can be 'good at falling over' and whilst I
accept that this won't protect you if you do it in trees or if some idiot
smashes into you, I think that 99% of people on the slopes are aware enough
to keep their wits about them and look out for potential hazards. If you go
skiing in steep/rocky/tree-ridden places then you are asking for trouble if
you DON'T wear a helmet, in my book.

I've had numerous spectacular wipe-outs, been hit by people on the slopes,
even run into the back (fortunately slowly!) of panicking beginners who have
suddenly changed direction and never once have I come even close to hurting
my head. Coccyx, shins, knees, thumbs (ouch!), wrists and bum, yes... but
never my head... but there's always a first time, I suppose. Mind you, I
think that any accident sufficiently dangerous enough to threaten my head is
likely to be fairly threatening to other fairly major parts of my body and I
can't protect everything, or I'd be wrapped in bubble-wrap. OK, I accept
that a major injury to my head is likely to cause more lasting damage than
damage to my leg, say, but what if I hurt my back and became paralysed?
Should I therefore get a neoprene suit made up with a spinal protector in
case I fall over and hurt my back?

I think that it should be left up to the parents to decide if their children
should wear helmets and I don't believe that any resort should have the
right to impose helmets on anyone that doesn't want to wear them. Remember,
they had to have a major re-vamp on protective clothing in American Football
when players started wearing the new style solid helmets due to the damage
the new helmets were causing to unprotected limbs! Think about that the
next time that gang of 7-year old French kids is approaching you at 50 mph
with rock-hard helmets on their bonces!


  #7  
Old January 20th 04, 05:55 PM
Mike Clark
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Default Helmets

In article , Ace
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:53 +0000, Steve Haigh
wrote:

[snip]

May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard
it said).


As I understand it, it's something over which the wearer has little
control. If he feels less likely to be hurt, he will be inclined to go
faster, steeper or whatever. It would take a conscious effort to avoid
this risk-compensation, which is inherent to human nature.


Yes it is inherent in human nature. People make subjective assessments
of the risks which may not agree with an objective assessment. For
example as you improve the personal safety systems in a car, such as
seatbelts and airbags, then you often find that people are prepared to
risk more and bigger accidents. Similarly if you make them feel more at
risk by convincing them that an activity seems more dangerous than it
really is they will behave more cautiously.

The same action can have differing effects on different people. So for
example if you were to compel a group of people to wear a helmet, you
might find some will now take more risks because they feel protected by
the helmet, whereas others will perceive that the need for a helmet is
because there must be a greater risk of injury than they originally
thought and hence they would be dissuaded from taking risks.
Introduction of compulsory helmet usage for cycling has reduced the
numbers who cycle in some countries.

Mike URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
" || _`\,_ |__\ \ | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

  #8  
Old January 20th 04, 08:31 PM
Jeremy Westhead
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Default Helmets

Hmm -

There were noticebly more in Lech this year (based on observation) than in
previous years. The various guides I skied with were all of the opinion
that they were only worn by americans.

They (the guides) and I were unanimous in concluding that we would wear them
if race training but that if we thought we needed them otherwise, we
shouldn't be skiing....

However this was based on the presumption that we could assess our own
skiing abilities and match our skiing to that. Kids on the other hand often
can't (or don't perceive the risk that may result if they don't) and
therefore it may well be sensible for them to do so.

However I wouldn't stop somebody wearing one if they wanted to.

I am also insured up to the hilt in respect of skiing/personal health, so
arguably wouldn't be a burden on the NHS if it all went wrong...

"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...
Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets?

On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be
approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of
weeks ago it was very close to zero.

Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive
(very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still
very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them
mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks.

On the plus side:
They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident.
(although I know of no proof)

On the down side:
Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was
a real pain, literally).
May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard
it said).
Too warm in spring/summer.

Thoughts?

Steve



  #9  
Old January 20th 04, 11:34 PM
Carl_M
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Posts: n/a
Default Helmets

"Carl Edwards" wrote in message ...
Thoughts?

Steve


Compare skiing to cycling. While the ground is usually harder when
cycling (unless you ski the ice with rocky Patches in Scotland) I have
not fallen off a bike since I was a kid but I fall skiing often. Many
years ago (when only downhill racers wore helmets and GS racers wore
bobble hats) I fell forwards and landed on my head (twice after I had
done a somersault). While there was no permanent damage I was rather
groggy for a couple of hours.

As others have said the feeling of invincibility is often touted but
does not appear to be the case for other safety features. The first
priority should be to avoid a crash but the nature of skiing is that
occasionally they happen and the sensible thing is to limit the damage
when it does.

Children are less able to risk assess than adults and may not be able
to judge their level of control, I therefore think that they should
wear helmets. In the sue culture that is developing I don't blame ski
schools for insisting on it as parents are quite likely to blame the
school if little Johnny crashes into a tree and bangs his head.

For adults it should be a personnal choice. I tend to go to the Alps
in January when the prices are lowest and also ski Scotland when I get
a chance, the heat of a helmet is not an issue then.

I have not noticed a hearing impairment wearing my helmet but if you
are worried about this helmets are available without (or with
removeable) ear pieces.

The majority of skiing injuries affect limbs but these usually repair
themselves after a few weeks. A head injury can be permanent and much
more difficult to cope with. Admittedly the same can be true of back
injuries and I have seen skiing back protectors for sale but it is a
case of the level of risk you are willing to take and how high that
risk is (depends on snow conditions, visability, how crowded the
pisted are, number of rocks and trees around , how aggressive you ski
etc)

In most things America is a few year ahead of Europe. In Tignes last
week I reckon that about 8-10% of adults were wearing helmets in a few
years time I would expect it to be up to the 30-50% someone mentioned
was now the case in the US.
  #10  
Old January 21st 04, 07:16 AM
PG
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Posts: n/a
Default Helmets


"Carl_M" wrote in message
om...
| "Carl Edwards" wrote in message
...

..../...

| As others have said the feeling of invincibility is often touted but
| does not appear to be the case for other safety features. The first
| priority should be to avoid a crash but the nature of skiing is that
| occasionally they happen and the sensible thing is to limit the damage
| when it does.

Of course.

| Children are less able to risk assess than adults and may not be able
| to judge their level of control, I therefore think that they should
| wear helmets.

Seconded. It's the only thing that makes sense. Anyone arguing the
contrary needs their head examining

| In the sue culture that is developing I don't blame ski
| schools for insisting on it as parents are quite likely to blame the
| school if little Johnny crashes into a tree and bangs his head.

Most don't at the moment, but it can't be far off if only for the reason
you've stated. I've seen a study estimating that between 5 and 10% of
skiing accidents result in head injuries of varying severity. Another
one made it clear that you could cut this figure in half by wearing a
well-fitting helmet..
(http://www.partyprogram.com/resources/files/28.pdf). Winter sports such
as skiing and ice-skating account for close to 20,000 brain trauma
injuries annually! And we're not talking about bumps on the head here.
(Thurman DJ, Branche CM, Sniezek JE. The Epidemiology of Sports-Related
Brain Injuries in the United States: Recent Developments. Journal of
Head Trauma Rehabilitation 1998.)


..../...

| The majority of skiing injuries affect limbs but these usually repair
| themselves after a few weeks. A head injury can be permanent and much
| more difficult to cope with.

When you've watched someone spend a few months in a coma, to emerge
gradually, but seriously disabled for good, believe me you tend to be
less blasé about alleged erosion of civil liberties and personal
freedoms. Anyone coming out with silly soapbox hyperbole about nanny
states in the physio ward of the RHND** would probably be lynched on the
spot by any parents/family present. (RHND** : Royal Hospital for
Neurodisability)

| Admittedly the same can be true of back
| injuries and I have seen skiing back protectors for sale but it is a
| case of the level of risk you are willing to take and how high that
| risk is (depends on snow conditions, visability, how crowded the
| pisted are, number of rocks and trees around , how aggressive you ski
| etc)

Not sure what the latest state of play is, but I was under the
impression that the ISF had made them compulsory for racing from the
start of this season, in all categories... although perhaps the date has
been put off as I've seen few people wearing them as yet.

| In most things America is a few year ahead of Europe. In Tignes last
| week I reckon that about 8-10% of adults were wearing helmets in a few
| years time I would expect it to be up to the 30-50% someone mentioned
| was now the case in the US.

No half measures on the other side of the Pond. They're either very
right - or very wrong...
;o)

Pete
www.skiclublesarcs.com


 




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