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#1
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Stopping and turning
Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old
guy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with an exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop and turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do relatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a video, a website, or something similar to show the technique for stopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from yesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated a lot. Randy |
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#2
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My reply doesn't seem to have made it. Dan Claussen's Nordicross! is
the only x-c ski video I know of that has a section on downhill skinnyski techniques. While Dan doesn't promote it any more, probably because the skating section is dated, it is an excellent video for novices and intermediate skiers, with full sections on classic, skate and waxing. Unfortunately, it's out of print. I see copies around occasionally. Check with Akers and Eagle River Nordic, watch ebay or get someone with a copy who is willing to make one for you. Best, tho, is go take a lesson or two at a resort, as words don't convey the images adequately. Most resorts and many ski club programs give intermediate level lessons, or you could take a private lesson. Tell the instructor what you want to focus on. I'd also suggest watching WC videos, however it sounds like what downhill/turning you'll see on those is far beyond where you're at. Good luck. Gene Randy Bryan wrote: Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old guy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with an exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop and turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do relatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a video, a website, or something similar to show the technique for stopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from yesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated a lot. Randy |
#3
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--0-219825638-1108950580=:65304
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Randy- There's a solution, but it's not necessarily quick and easy. Go to a downhill area, take some lessons with alpine skis (or even telemark skis to get that freeheel feeling) to learn how to make stem and/or parallel turns, and then practice, practice, practice. It's fun work if you can get it, though- Chris Randy Bryan wrote: Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old guy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with an exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop and turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do relatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a video, a website, or something similar to show the technique for stopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from yesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated a lot. Randy --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --0-219825638-1108950580=:65304 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii DIVHi Randy-/DIV DIVThere's a solution, but it's not necessarily quick and easy. Go to a downhill area, take some lessons with alpine skis (or even telemark skis to get that freeheel feeling) to learn how to make stem and/or parallel turns, and then practice, practice, practice./DIV DIV /DIV DIVIt's fun work if you can get it, though-/DIV DIVChrisBRBRBIRandy Bryan >/I/B wrote:/DIV BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old BRguy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with BRan exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop BRand turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do BRrelatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a BRvideo, a website, or something similar to show the technique for BRstopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from BRyesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated BRa lot.BRBRRandyBRBRBRBRBR/BLOCKQUOTEp hr size=1Do you Yahoo!?br Yahoo! Search presents - a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=30648/*http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jibjabinaugural.html"Jib Jab's 'Second Term'/a --0-219825638-1108950580=:65304-- |
#4
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Hi Randy,
Here is an article I wrote for Master Skier a few years ago. It might help a bit. Hopefully the formatting won't be too messed up. If you want a cleaner copy, email me directly and I'll send you a PDF or something. Good Luck, Nathan www.nsavage.com One of the most surprising things I have learned from coaching is how little most cross-country skiers know about descending. Even expert skiers who have spent countless hours honing technique often have no concept of how to descend and corner. Downhills should be fun, not scary. Learning to descend with confidence and speed is actually quite simple, and with a little knowledge and practice most people make dramatic improvements in a very short time. As with all skiing techniques, proper descending starts with the correct body position. This fundamental position is a relaxed stance with feet slightly wider than shoulder-width apart, with a lowered center of gravity created by bending at the knees and ankles. The upper body and arms should be forward, leading with the hands at roughly stomach- to chest-level. This position creates a stable, dynamic platform that maximizes balance and control. By staying relaxed, one can soak up terrain changes, while the wide stance allows initiation of comfortable, stable turns and quick lateral movement when needed. To get comfortable with this position, begin on a flat trail at low speed. A very wide trail or Alpine hill is best to give room to experiment and allow for the inevitable errors. Gradually increase the speed and steepness as you become more confident. Once you have mastered the basic position, you can increase speed and stability by lowering into an aerodynamic tuck. You can move between the tuck and fundamental downhill position when corners and other obstacles present themselves. From the basic downhill position, create a tuck by bending at the knees and waist so the back is horizontal. Look forward, placing hands in front of the mouth and resting the elbows on the thighs, just behind the knees. Poles should rest in the fold of the waist and be horizontal, not sticking straight up as seen in countless back-of-the-pack Birkie photos. To maximize speed and also get a nice leg burn, move lower by putting the elbows in front of the knees. Once you can hurl yourself at top-speed downhill comfortably, it's time to learn how to negotiate those pesky corners lurking at the bottom. Approach all corners in the same way: relax, check body position, and look where you want to go, not at the scary things you want to avoid such as trees and that guy in the power-wedge tuck with poles sticking straight up. Think positively: visualize how you will negotiate the turn, not what will happen if you ski off the trail. This may seem silly, but crashing is a certainty if you let thoughts of crashing creep in your head. Don't panic - keep a clear head and you will surprise yourself with what you can do. Next, choose your line and set up accordingly. Generally, the best line will be the largest radius arc. This arc begins on the outside of the curve, swoops to the inside at the apex of the turn, and then moves back outside at exit. This line may need to be altered due to conditions such as when a corner has been scraped down to bedrock by 5000 snowplowing skiers. Initiate turns by moving the outside hand forward and pointing your body in the direction of travel. Make sure your weight is low and forward to maximize stability. Now it is time to perform the turn. There are four basic XC turns to choose from: Step, Skate, Snowplow, and Slide. Each has distinct advantages that make it useful in specific situations. It is helpful to note that in all of these, the inside ski steers the skier through the turn. The Step Turn is accomplished by making quick steps toward the inside of the corner, changing direction slightly with each step. It is useful for small changes in direction or turns where you don't want to add or subtract speed. To perform the step turn, begin by weighting the outside ski, then pick up the inside ski and step in toward the corner, pointing the inside ski a little bit toward the inside of the curve. Transfer weight to the inside ski and then bring the outside ski back in parallel to the inside ski. Repeat, taking small, quick steps as many times as needed to complete the turn. Poles are not used during a step turn. The Skate Turn is a combination of the Step Turn and the Marathon Skate. This turn moves the skier quickly around the corner while adding significant speed. The Marathon Skate is skating with one ski while the other ski rests in the classic track. For those who have never heard of this, rent a circa-1980 ski video and practice what you see until you get at least three surly glares from knicker-clad classical skiers. Think of the Skate Turn as the inside ski doing a step turn while the outside ski is marathon skating. The turn begins by skating hard off the outside ski while (optionally) poling toward the inside of the corner. At the end of the skate stroke, place the inside ski as in a step turn: toward the inside of the corner, pointed slightly in the direction of the turn. Glide on the inside ski while hauling in the outside ski in preparation to repeat the cycle. Repeat as many times as needed to negotiate the curve. The Snowplow Turn is useful when you want to check your speed through a corner and don't mind being teased by snooty Master Skier writers. The "Wedge" can be done in varying degrees depending on the slowing power required. However, it is not the best way to stop or turn quickly, despite its wide acceptance for these purposes in the latter waves of many ski marathons. Initiate the Snowplow Turn by actively steering the skis toward each other to form a wedge. As the skis move into the wedge position, bend the knees and shift the weight to the inside edges. Lean into the corner slightly and steer the inside ski in the direction of the turn. Shift weight to the inside edge of the outside ski to increase turning power. Steer using both feet around the corner while the outside ski slides across the snow. Don't rotate your body much; move as a whole while keeping your weight low and forward. The wedge puts the knees in danger if the legs are forced wide or the knees are straightened, so be careful with it and use other methods when you can. A better way to stop or take a tight, fast corner is a Slide or Parallel Turn. This turn gives you maximum cornering and stopping ability, but can scrub speed significantly. There are two components: carving and sliding. The carve is created by flexing the ski in an arc and applying the inside edge to the snow, turning the skis along this "carved" arc. Unfortunately, cross-country skis do not carve particularly well, and in order to turn quickly, we often have to turn our skis in the direction we want to travel by first sliding them and then applying weight to the edges in order to complete the turn. Initiate a parallel turn by standing up slightly to unweight the skis. Begin turning the inside ski by leaning uphill and into the turn while forcing your body around with your hips. As you steer your inside ski toward the direction of the turn, keep leaning uphill, bend your knees, and load the inside edge of the outside ski. Uphill lean is important here - the pull of gravity will be balanced by the force of the turn and any deceleration caused by sliding. The skis should be roughly parallel to each other as you come back down on them and set your inside edges. The majority of your weight should come down on your outside ski. The degree of sliding controls how quickly speed is reduced. Create slide by turning the skis past the direction of travel before transferring weight to the inside edges. The degree of sliding depends on how far past the turn direction you go - perpendicular to the direction of travel will produce a hockey stop, while a slight overturn will create a minor skid. To carve without sliding, point the skis in the direction you want to turn, arc the skis by first applying pressure forward to the tip of the ski and then back as the edges dig in and the skis begin to bend. Steer through the turn with both feet, keeping the edges down and the skis arced. Exiting a parallel turn involves moving off the edges while using the inside leg and momentum to push you out of the uphill lean and back to a neutral position. Armed with the basic body position and a small repertoire of turns, downhills become one of the pure delights of skiing. Learn these techniques, spread the word, and banish forever the panic-stricken power wedge. Please. "Randy Bryan" wrote in message news Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old guy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with an exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop and turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do relatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a video, a website, or something similar to show the technique for stopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from yesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated a lot. Randy |
#5
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Randy,
There has already been quite a long thread on this board with some useful tips, which you may find helpful- last post 17th Feb " Question on coming down a hill". Most of the technique books and videos that I have seen, tell you how to stop and turn on an open slope but have no tips for tracks. The only exception that I know of is Ned Gillette's book, now sadly out of print, but still worth a read if you can find a copy. The first thing to do is to practice stopping and turning on an open hill with a safe run-out. Master a steady snow-plow to control speed and then progress to wedge turns. After that, learn to step-turn and to step in and out of the plow. Some good lessons will speed your learning process. The second thing to do is to watch how other skiers cope with the tricky tracks. Probably best to start by watching those who are a little better than you, rather than the racers who have been ski-ing since they could walk. When you do tackle the steep tracks - control your speed from the top, to a speed where you are confident you can turn and stop. That speed will increase as you get better. Happy ski-ing Alex Randy Bryan wrote in message ... Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old guy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with an exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop and turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do relatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a video, a website, or something similar to show the technique for stopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from yesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated a lot. Randy |
#6
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On 21/2/05 12:58 pm, "Alex" wrote:
Randy, There has already been quite a long thread on this board with some useful tips, which you may find helpful- last post 17th Feb " Question on coming down a hill". Most of the technique books and videos that I have seen, tell you how to stop and turn on an open slope but have no tips for tracks. The only exception that I know of is Ned Gillette's book, now sadly out of print, but still worth a read if you can find a copy. The first thing to do is to practice stopping and turning on an open hill with a safe run-out. Master a steady snow-plow to control speed and then progress to wedge turns. After that, learn to step-turn and to step in and out of the plow. Some good lessons will speed your learning process. The second thing to do is to watch how other skiers cope with the tricky tracks. Probably best to start by watching those who are a little better than you, rather than the racers who have been ski-ing since they could walk. When you do tackle the steep tracks - control your speed from the top, to a speed where you are confident you can turn and stop. That speed will increase as you get better. Happy ski-ing Alex Randy Bryan wrote in message ... Hiya....I'm a relative beginner at diagonal, actually a 4th year old guy. I've recently graduated to the intermediate trails and do well with an exception: on very steep downhill slopes, I can;t seem to slow, stop and turn worth a damn. with gradual turns I'm okay, and can do relatively well with fast downhill straight . Does anyone know of a video, a website, or something similar to show the technique for stopping/turning/staying ON your feet? My ass has callouses from yesterdays attempts! Even some written suggestions would be appreciated a lot. Randy Ski-ing down hill is the best bit! But it ain't easy. I've spent a lot of time in alpine skis, telemark skis and skinny skis on piste and I found those Norweigan in track descents pretty challenging. But great fun, but I'm used to falling. FWIW I found a telemark positions helped me steer through turns on the (classic) tracks. andyb |
#7
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Actually, one book I forgot about, The Essential Cross Country Skier
(Paul Petersen & Richard Lovett) has some pages of text and excellent photos on just what you are looking for, plus it's a good all around book. It's still in print. See he http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 Gene |
#8
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Gene,
Thanks, and happy coincidence: I had ordered this from Amazon the day I posted the question. I also got the Tao of SKiing, the older XCountry videos and a couple of more I'd forgotten. Prolly the best idea yet is to pay for some lessons, eh? Gene Goldenfeld wrote: Actually, one book I forgot about, The Essential Cross Country Skier (Paul Petersen & Richard Lovett) has some pages of text and excellent photos on just what you are looking for, plus it's a good all around book. It's still in print. See he http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 Gene |
#9
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Randy Bryan wrote:
Gene, Thanks, and happy coincidence: I had ordered this from Amazon the day I posted the question. I also got the Tao of SKiing, the older XCountry videos and a couple of more I'd forgotten. Prolly the best idea yet is to pay for some lessons, eh? Yep. Good skiing. |
#10
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"Nathan Schultz" wrote excellent info on XC downhill What amazes me is that a lot of good skiers - much faster overall than me - snowplow like crippled old ladies/gents with hip replacements when approaching any corner. Really flimsy, poor snowplows. But that's not bad, because it's always best to be in control. What's bad is that they spend 0, I mean ZERO time practicing downhill. They NEVER find easy hills to practice pushing around corners and then build up difficulty and speed. They never practice going fast around corners in the tracks. Zero, zilch nada. They go on for YEARS snowplowing like they've never skied before. I just don't understand why someone would totally ignore this technique and spend years and years being petrified and incompetent in hills. Practice. Whenever someone asks me to help them with downhill, I try to give some basic pointers, but I always tell them to find a hill they can handle and then practice what I've shown them (mostly they wonder how to push around corners). Start slow, at the level of control, then build up as skill develops. Virtually none of them follow this advice. They think I can show them and they will learn... then they just go out and ski and snowplow. Cam |
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