How hard are the Courchevel couloirs??

I've visited the Trois Vallees on a number of occasions and have always been tempted to try the couloirs but have been too apprehensive to take the plunge or to attempt the famously precarious ridge walk to access them. I have successfully negotiated the majority of the black pistes in the Corchevel/Meribel area (and Val D'Isere for that matter) in a variety of snow conditions and would be interested to know how the couloirs compare in terms of difficulty.

Tuck Thong wrote:
I've visited the Trois Vallees on a number of occasions and have
always
been tempted to try the couloirs but have been too apprehensive to
take
the plunge or to attempt the famously precarious ridge walk to access
them. I have successfully negotiated the majority of the black pistes
in the Corchevel/Meribel area (and Val D'Isere for that matter) in a
variety of snow conditions and would be interested to know how the
couloirs compare in terms of difficulty.

They are about as hard as any other black runs in the area, and on
occasion had some big bumps and there may be a bit of a lip at the top,
but I didn't think they were particularly hard. OK, they are true
blacks but nothing to be scared of. The only difference is that since
they are couloirs you need to make tight turns - more open black runs
give you more space to run out a turn.

They are certainly not as hard as some o the double blacks I've skied
in N America. I'm stuggling to think of marked runs in Val d'Isere to
compare them to, but if you were comfortable on the Face de Belvarde or
Epaule de Charvet I'd say the Couloirs wold be OK.

It's a [long] while since I've been there, but I doubt they've changed
much so I guess this still holds true.

"Tuck Thong" wrote in message
...

I've visited the Trois Vallees on a number of occasions and have always
been tempted to try the couloirs but have been too apprehensive to take
the plunge or to attempt the famously precarious ridge walk to access
them. I have successfully negotiated the majority of the black pistes
in the Corchevel/Meribel area (and Val D'Isere for that matter) in a
variety of snow conditions and would be interested to know how the
couloirs compare in terms of difficulty.


Are you talking about the Grand Couloir Piste
or the mini itineraries below the telepherique?

The piste is an average to hard black, when I
was there it was not pisted and very moguly.
There was very little lip to enter it but the
top section as usual is the steepest, trickiest
bit.
The off-piste below the 'phrique are naturally harder
than the piste and a little steeper, but not too bad.
The one directly under the 'phrique is the hardest
and *very narrow* to start, but that is self evident
from the 'phrique. The latter was a little rich for
my blood.
Courchevel rocks! The other valleys, except Orelle
are not as good IMO.

--
Mike W

Tuck Thong wrote:
I've visited the Trois Vallees on a number of occasions and have always
been tempted to try the couloirs but have been too apprehensive to take
the plunge or to attempt the famously precarious ridge walk

ridge ski I think you mean. As the guy at the Piste Patrol hut on the
Saulire said to me a couple of years back, if you don't like the ridge
you shouldn't be in the couloirs.

Well, how long is a piece of string?

I have little advice, just a tale or two.

Last time I was in Courchevel I did the Grand Couloir and
some of the others that head down from the same place.
I was with an instructor and we visited a number of times
over several days. Yes I went back!

I am heading back to Courchevel this season (a year later)
however I feel that it is unlikely that I will venture
towards the couloirs on this trip. I don't feel that the
risks and benefits add up the right way for me. Also I will
not have an instructor available on this occassion.

It is steep enough that you will _not_ stop until you reach
the bottom if you fall, with the proviso that if you have practised
self-arrest you may be able to before the speed builds up - I
don't know. There are rocks at the sides and while many
falls will run out the bottom, I have been places in there
where falling and not stopping might have been inadvisable.

On one trip the person in front of me fell from near the top of
the Sous Pylons (I think) and did not stop until the run out
at the bottom.

Seeing that happen affected my own confidence somewhat
and I sideslipped down the first 30m or so until it was a little
less steep even though I had been there recently and had
skied the whole thing already.

For me the risk/benefit does not add up. Clearly though
it is up to you.

If you really fancy it consider getting an instructor or
guide to show you round.

When I was there the snow was good. Skied out
of course but soft and grippy. It was severely
bumped up which made it easier (if you disagree that
bumped up is easier you probably shouldn't go) but
of course the back sides of the bumps were very
steep indeed. If you fell it would not be long before
you were on a roller coaster ride with, I would think, no
hope whatsoever of stopping.

I am sure that many others will think that I am excessively
cautious but it's the way I feel about it.

http://www.dimple1.demon.co.uk/skiing/courchevel.html
Has a nice looking description and some advice. I largely
agree with it.

I think that we did the 'Death Couloir' therein mentioned too.
I was impressed - I do recall some apprehension. Like,
what the **** am I doing here when I could be in a nice
cafe having a hot chocolate instead.

The "famously precarious ridge walk". When I was there
the access was scary. There are severe drops off both
sides of the narrow ridge and the snow was icy due to the
number of skiers passing across it. Walking would NOT
have been a good option without appropriate footware
(crampons would have been good). It was OK to ski,
but I was much more careful on the ridge than in the
couloirs. Minimum risk skiing. The difference
is though, in the steep bits you really have to
commit (well I do) to do decent turns (which for
me is the whole point) while on the
path at the top it was possible to just creep down.

The other thing is the snow conditions, things might be
different after a fresh fall, but then of course the avalanche
risk would have to be considered and I would want some
local guidance on that.

http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/trip/c...ck-into-GC.jpg
http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/trip/c...on-attacks.jpg



23 days 13 hours to go 'til the skis hit the snow.
(Unless the travel works out well and I get in
a run or two on the travel day)

Hmmm hadn't thought of that previously
09:00 flight London to Chambery, Courchevel 1850 destination,
Saturday skiing does seem a possibility. Transfer is 110km.
Take off 10am French time arrive Chambery 11 (say)
Could be there for 1pm. :-))) With a following wind.

Hope I haven't rambled on too much, get an instructor
is my advice.

Good luck and have fun.

David George wrote:
Tuck Thong wrote:

I've visited the Trois Vallees on a number of occasions and have always
been tempted to try the couloirs but have been too apprehensive to take
the plunge or to attempt the famously precarious ridge walk


ridge ski I think you mean. As the guy at the Piste Patrol hut on the
Saulire said to me a couple of years back, if you don't like the ridge
you shouldn't be in the couloirs.



I have only done the Grand Couloir a few times. The ridge is fairly
tricky but not too bad; IMHO it looks worse than it actually is. It is
not a walk, but a roller coaster of a ski run.

The couloir itself is very good: not particularly steep and certainly
not narrow and because of its position, almost constantly in shade, the
snow stays in good condition. It, however, is definately a black run. Of
course the condition of the snow counts for a lot, but I would rate it
harder than the Face de Belvarde, but easier than the Epaule de Charvet
in Val. My wife prefers it over the black 'M' run oposite.

On one occaision I did see ski tracks heading off from the ridge down to
Meribel. Now that did look scary.


John

"Tuck Thong" wrote
I've visited the Trois Vallees on a number of occasions and have always
been tempted to try the couloirs but have been too apprehensive to take
the plunge or to attempt the famously precarious ridge walk to access
them. I have successfully negotiated the majority of the black pistes
in the Corchevel/Meribel area (and Val D'Isere for that matter) in a
variety of snow conditions and would be interested to know how the
couloirs compare in terms of difficulty.

One of the most frightening things I have ever seen was when someone bottled
their first turn on the Grand Couloir, sat back and didn't manage to stop
themselves before starting to slide. He fell top to bottom, ragdolling all
the way, every so often was launched a fair way into the air off a mogul and
fortunately missed a few exposed rocks half way down. He stopped just past
the piste markers on the red at the bottom. From the top all I could make
out was a black dot with a circle of other dots round it (as people gathered
round him). All that was going through my mind was oh god, we might need a
body bag. Fortunately he wasn't too badly injured, just a damaged shoulder,
but it could easily have been a broken neck on one of the landings.

In summary, not that much more difficult than other steep blacks, but not
the best place to discover you are not up to it. In my personal opinion the
other two are slightly more difficult, if shorter, than the Grand Couloir
but that will depend on conditions.

Nick

John Elgy wrote:


On one occaision I did see ski tracks heading off from the ridge down to
Meribel. Now that did look scary.


Couloir Tournier, it needs good snow cover because there are a lot of rocks.

John Elgy wrote:
David George wrote:
Tuck Thong wrote:

snip

The couloir itself is very good: not particularly steep and certainly
not narrow and because of its position, almost constantly in shade,
the snow stays in good condition. It, however, is definately a black
run. Of course the condition of the snow counts for a lot, but I
would rate it harder than the Face de Belvarde, but easier than the
Epaule de Charvet in Val. My wife prefers it over the black 'M' run
oposite.

You rate the Epaule as harder than the Face? Why? I would have put them the
other way round.


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk

MoonMan wrote:
John Elgy wrote:

David George wrote:

Tuck Thong wrote:


snip

The couloir itself is very good: not particularly steep and certainly
not narrow and because of its position, almost constantly in shade,
the snow stays in good condition. It, however, is definately a black
run. Of course the condition of the snow counts for a lot, but I
would rate it harder than the Face de Belvarde, but easier than the
Epaule de Charvet in Val. My wife prefers it over the black 'M' run
oposite.


You rate the Epaule as harder than the Face? Why? I would have put them the
other way round.


Steeper, bigger moguls, long walk at the end, and more committing -
there is no easy way to sneak off to the side.

John