Do WC skiers use the same boots as the rest of us?

Reading a book about alpine skiing, the author notes the misconception
created by ski boot companies that the boots for the masses are similar
to the ones worn by WC downhillers, when in fact the latter's boots are
made with different molds and plastics. Got me to wondering. Allowing
for prototypes and next year's models, is there difference between what
WC x-c skiers get and the rest of us?

Gene

"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote:
Reading a book about alpine skiing, the author notes the misconception
created by ski boot companies that the boots for the masses are similar
to the ones worn by WC downhillers, when in fact the latter's boots are
made with different molds and plastics. Got me to wondering. Allowing
for prototypes and next year's models, is there difference between what
WC x-c skiers get and the rest of us?

I received a catalog in the mail from Craft yesterday and the cover picture
shows three WC skiers skating on some silver Salomon boots that look like a
beefed up version of the Carbon Pro Classic. The skiathlon version, I
presume. The black neoprene is exposed above ankle level like the classic
model (and unlike the carbon skate model out now), but there is a cuff. The
view is from the front, so I'm not sure what the cuff looks like from the
side. I wonder if they got rid of the lower "energyzer" part of the cuff
that springs/tilts the cuff forward. That part seemed like one of the very
minor annoyances that I noticed when classic skiing with my skate boots in a
skiathlon this season because it puts some pressure on the back of your calf
when you reach forward with your foot going up hill, and it doesn't help to
release the cuff buckle (though once skiing, I didn't notice a thing). I
would think that an experienced skier would not need any help flexing at the
ankles, the ankle flexing being a part of their technique. Anyone get to
try this boot yet? Well it will be something to check out next season... my
bumblebees are getting old and they don't have as nice an arch as the Carbon
pro classics that I have.

I'm kind of wondering if there is a shift towards lower skate boots. If the
fit on the foot is very good, you might not need as high a cuff. I haven't
tried speed skating, but from what I have seen in photos, they use low cut
boots even with the boot pretty high above the blade... looks less stable
than skiing to me, but again, I haven't tried it. I did think I was going
to kill myself the one time I tried on a pair in-line skate boots on in a
store though, so maybe it's me (I don't even think about roller skiing). I
noticed in the store that the Salomon Carbon Pro Skate's cuff is about 2 cm
lower than the yellow bumblebee version that I have. I think this is a good
thing. When I first got my boots about four years ago, I had the cuff set
pretty tight and often got calf cramps until I figured out that I had to run
it very loose. I think Wenner called these boots telemark boots a couple of
weeks ago and I agree... they are just as high as and compare well in
stiffness to my Salomon Greenland backcountry boots, so I would say they are
overkill. The carbon pro classic boots that I have seem to skate turn
decently on downhill turns and such with no cuff at all - perhaps the better
foot support compared to my bumblebee boots compensates a little for the
lack of a cuff.

"Andrew Lee" whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom wrote
I received a catalog in the mail from Craft yesterday and the cover
picture
shows three WC skiers skating on some silver Salomon boots that look like
a
beefed up version of the Carbon Pro Classic. The skiathlon version, I
presume. The black neoprene is exposed above ankle level like the classic
model (and unlike the carbon skate model out now), but there is a cuff.
The
view is from the front, so I'm not sure what the cuff looks like from the
side. I wonder if they got rid of the lower "energyzer" part of the cuff
that springs/tilts the cuff forward. That part seemed like one of the
very
minor annoyances that I noticed when classic skiing with my skate boots in
a
skiathlon this season because it puts some pressure on the back of your
calf
when you reach forward with your foot going up hill, and it doesn't help
to
release the cuff buckle (though once skiing, I didn't notice a thing). I
would think that an experienced skier would not need any help flexing at
the
ankles, the ankle flexing being a part of their technique. Anyone get to
try this boot yet? Well it will be something to check out next season...
my
bumblebees are getting old and they don't have as nice an arch as the
Carbon
pro classics that I have.

A guy in a ski shop told me that all the major brands will have a racing
grade combi boot and we'll be seeing them on the retail market next year.
I'm as curious as you. I have a pair of new carbon classics which really
have turned out well for me. I have a pair of bumblebee skate boots which
I probably won't be able to justify replacing because they're not trashed
yet. But, I've always had a love hate relationship with them and am almost
getting to point of spending some bucks replacing them.


I'm kind of wondering if there is a shift towards lower skate boots. If
the
fit on the foot is very good, you might not need as high a cuff. I
haven't
tried speed skating, but from what I have seen in photos, they use low cut
boots even with the boot pretty high above the blade... looks less stable
than skiing to me, but again, I haven't tried it.


As a recent tread pointed out, Fischer's new skate boot is pretty radically
different - not as high and beefy in the ankle support arena. The one I saw
(didn't try) didn't even look much like a skating boot, but it sure looked
like it had a beefy sole.

As for speed skates. I have a pair of short track boots and blades, about
10 years old (bont). The boots are a little higher and beefier than a long
track boot, but nothing like a hockey skate or a ski-skating boot. But my
thinking is this - Speed skating involves much less leverage on the foot
(blade vs. ski), less variability in the terrain (radical difference), no
high speed downhill turns, etc. That's why I think ski boots need to be a
little stouter. However, I'm really interested in seeing a more minimal
boot than the bumblebees and it really looks like the carbons and current
rossi are a start.

Grissy

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:48:02 -0900, "Griss"
wrote:


"Andrew Lee" whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom wrote



I'm kind of wondering if there is a shift towards lower skate boots. If
the
fit on the foot is very good, you might not need as high a cuff. I
haven't
tried speed skating, but from what I have seen in photos, they use low cut
boots even with the boot pretty high above the blade... looks less stable
than skiing to me, but again, I haven't tried it.


As a recent tread pointed out, Fischer's new skate boot is pretty radically
different - not as high and beefy in the ankle support arena. The one I saw
(didn't try) didn't even look much like a skating boot, but it sure looked
like it had a beefy sole.

That's why I think ski boots need to be a
little stouter. However, I'm really interested in seeing a more minimal
boot than the bumblebees and it really looks like the carbons and current
rossi are a start.

Grissy

I have Salomon Active 9 Skate boots (third from top line now, fit
Pilot binding) which, while not lower than the black/yellow boots are
definitely more flexible around the ankles and calves.

JT

Interesting, but really another topic.

Andrew Lee wrote:

"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote:
Reading a book about alpine skiing, the author notes the misconception
created by ski boot companies that the boots for the masses are similar
to the ones worn by WC downhillers, when in fact the latter's boots are
made with different molds and plastics. Got me to wondering. Allowing
for prototypes and next year's models, is there difference between what
WC x-c skiers get and the rest of us?

I received a catalog in the mail from Craft yesterday and the cover picture
shows three WC skiers skating on some silver Salomon boots that look like a
beefed up version of the Carbon Pro Classic. The skiathlon version, I
presume. The black neoprene is exposed above ankle level like the classic

"Griss" wrote in message ...

- Speed skating involves much less leverage on the foot
(blade vs. ski), less variability in the terrain (radical difference), no
high speed downhill turns, etc. That's why I think ski boots need to be a
little stouter.


You've got to be kidding about downhills on speedskates.
How does 50MPH suit you?

Speed skating boots fit tightly and something that tight would be very cold and
uncomfortable on snow.
My Salomon's fit so tightly that I get cold all the time
and they are uncomfortable to walk, but they do skate well once on snow.

So the higher cuff is a trade-off for looser fit sole and does provide
some needed control.
The current design will stay IMO.

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:

Reading a book about alpine skiing, the author notes the misconception
created by ski boot companies that the boots for the masses are similar
to the ones worn by WC downhillers, when in fact the latter's boots are
made with different molds and plastics. Got me to wondering. Allowing
for prototypes and next year's models, is there difference between what
WC x-c skiers get and the rest of us?

In XC skiing it's exactly same shoe which you can get in store.
Alpine skiing is different. Height limit for alpine skiing is if
I remember right 13cm, which means from snow to sole of boot is
13cm. I was skiing few times with boots, skis and bindings set
to this (few friends from alpine service teams so I got few
things ) and it's really strange feeling not to mention
you need to know what you are doing (hobby skiing won't do).
Few years ago there was just limit from snow to top of binding
plate so boots had another 5 or 6cm from bottom of boot to sole
of boot (and then you were about 20cm above snow). And you couldn't
get those boots in store. They were for racing only, because noone
would buy something like that anyway.
And even now those boots are different thing then normal boots. First
of all they have foam pumped in boot so you have boot which fits
to your foot exactly, and you can't get this done in store. Second
noone really wants some weird boots in which it's not really easy
to ski, since they are hard like rocks and they pretty much feel
like you would have rocks around your ankles

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