A strap is a strap

A Finnish court has ruled that a strap is a strap - or
that a Yoko strap is not an Exel strap.

Exel had sued Karhu for a violation of its patent, but
since the idea of separate openings for wrist, thumb and
th other four fingers cannot be considered a patented
property, it was sufficient for the Yoko pole to differ
on a number of features (of the tigthening and locking
system) to be an independent design.


I´m glad I´m not a lawyer:-)



Anders

I thought that the TOKO 232 system was a Salomon patent and that Toko was
suing Exel on the use of the thumb loop on the C1 grip.... at least that was
what I got off the EU patent office website last season...
-Ira
"Anders Lustig" wrote in message
om...
A Finnish court has ruled that a strap is a strap - or
that a Yoko strap is not an Exel strap.

Exel had sued Karhu for a violation of its patent, but
since the idea of separate openings for wrist, thumb and
th other four fingers cannot be considered a patented
property, it was sufficient for the Yoko pole to differ
on a number of features (of the tigthening and locking
system) to be an independent design.


I´m glad I´m not a lawyer:-)



Anders

"Ira Edwards" wrote in message ...

I thought that the TOKO 232 system was a Salomon patent and that Toko was
suing Exel on the use of the thumb loop on the C1 grip.... at least that was
what I got off the EU patent office website last season...

I thought Salomon had patents only on ski bindings and stuff (and
nothing to do with poles, grips or straps!

I also thought that Toko is a Swiss brand of ski waxes, and Yoko
the Finnish brand of cycling, motorcycling and skiing gloves and
stuff and, in co-operation with Karhu, of Nordic skiing poles!

(Curiously, Karhu is the Finnish importer of Toko waxes...)

I can understand that _Y_oko would have met Exel´s act of suing
them by suing Exel in return, but what is this Yoko---Toko? Is
it on the N.A. market only - because "Yoko" wasn´t available as
a brand name, or because someone thought that there would be a
synergy effect with a known ski wax brand?


Anders (who is glad he is not a marketing person, either)

Here's how I understand the story (and I think this will explain most
of Anders questions below):

Yoko is (was?) a Finnish makers of gloves (yoko yoko is the Finnish
word for baseball - a game Finns love). The original Yoko ski gloves
were first developed for Motocross.

Yoko then developed the 232 system and thereby got into the pole
business. The 232 comes from the id number of the famous Finnish
fireman (and athlete) who developed the system. He is know all through
Finland as "232".

Since Yoko was not in the pole business they hired Karhu to manufacture
the shafts.

Toko and Yoko have always had a very close working relationship.
(Which probably explains why Karhu imported Toko to Finland). Toko has
now taken over Yoko's ski glove and pole business. I don't knows if
Yoko still makes baseball and motorcycle equipment.

For the past three years I have been known as "Toko Yoko Man" which
most people thought meant I was a Japanese superhero. Now that I'm
just "Toko Man" people are still confused. But yes, Toko is a Swiss
company. They have a small factory located in the Swiss Alps where
they research and manufacture all their wax. Toko is owned by a big
conglomerate that also owns Mammut climbing gear. (I have a nifty
jacket from them with built-in avalanche transponder! When that
avalanche hits Eastern Mass. I'll be ready).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team
I also thought that Toko is a Swiss brand of ski waxes, and Yoko
the Finnish brand of cycling, motorcycling and skiing gloves and
stuff and, in co-operation with Karhu, of Nordic skiing poles!

(Curiously, Karhu is the Finnish importer of Toko waxes...)

I can understand that _Y_oko would have met Exels act of suing
them by suing Exel in return, but what is this Yoko---Toko? Is
it on the N.A. market only - because "Yoko" wasnt available as
a brand name, or because someone thought that there would be a
synergy effect with a known ski wax brand?


Anders (who is glad he is not a marketing person, either)






=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

Anders Lustig wrote:


I also thought that Toko is a Swiss brand of ski waxes, and Yoko
the Finnish brand of cycling, motorcycling and skiing gloves and
stuff and, in co-operation with Karhu, of Nordic skiing poles!


Toko bought Yoko!

(Rob Bradlee) wrote in message oo.com...
Here's how I understand the story (and I think this will explain most
of Anders questions below):

Yoko is (was?) a Finnish makers of gloves (yoko yoko is the Finnish
word for baseball - a game Finns love). The original Yoko ski gloves
were first developed for Motocross.

Yoko then developed the 232 system and thereby got into the pole
business. The 232 comes from the id number of the famous Finnish
fireman (and athlete) who developed the system. He is know all through
Finland as "232".

Since Yoko was not in the pole business they hired Karhu to manufacture
the shafts.

Toko and Yoko have always had a very close working relationship.
(Which probably explains why Karhu imported Toko to Finland). Toko has
now taken over Yoko's ski glove and pole business. I don't knows if
Yoko still makes baseball and motorcycle equipment.

For the past three years I have been known as "Toko Yoko Man" which
most people thought meant I was a Japanese superhero. Now that I'm
just "Toko Man" people are still confused. But yes, Toko is a Swiss
company. They have a small factory located in the Swiss Alps where
they research and manufacture all their wax. Toko is owned by a big
conglomerate that also owns Mammut climbing gear. (I have a nifty
jacket from them with built-in avalanche transponder! When that
avalanche hits Eastern Mass. I'll be ready).


The only time we get Avalanches in Eastern Mass is when Boston plays
Colorado in Hockey.

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team
I also thought that Toko is a Swiss brand of ski waxes, and Yoko
the Finnish brand of cycling, motorcycling and skiing gloves and
stuff and, in co-operation with Karhu, of Nordic skiing poles!

(Curiously, Karhu is the Finnish importer of Toko waxes...)

I can understand that _Y_oko would have met Exels act of suing
them by suing Exel in return, but what is this Yoko---Toko? Is
it on the N.A. market only - because "Yoko" wasnt available as
a brand name, or because someone thought that there would be a
synergy effect with a known ski wax brand?


Anders (who is glad he is not a marketing person, either)






=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Rob Bradlee wrote:

But yes, Toko is a Swiss
company. They have a small factory located in the Swiss Alps where
they research and manufacture all their wax.

Small is right. Several years ago I was visiting a friend who lived
in Switzerland then (not coincidentally just in time for Engadin).
We were going over and through the mountains on twisty 2-lane roads
to get somewhere for some skiing when I saw a small building with the
Toko logo on the front. I thought it must just be one of several
since it couldn't possibly be the WHOLE COMPANY. But that was it.
Maybe the sales and marketing folks are somewhere other than the
factory.

Hmm... I should dig through my photo archives. I might have stopped
to take a picture of it. Don't remember now.

-Mitch

Anders Lustig wrote:

I also thought that Toko is a Swiss brand of ski waxes, and Yoko
the Finnish brand of cycling, motorcycling and skiing gloves and
stuff and, in co-operation with Karhu, of Nordic skiing poles!

(Curiously, Karhu is the Finnish importer of Toko waxes...)

I can understand that _Y_oko would have met Exel´s act of suing
them by suing Exel in return, but what is this Yoko---Toko? Is
it on the N.A. market only - because "Yoko" wasn´t available as
a brand name, or because someone thought that there would be a
synergy effect with a known ski wax brand?

I saw this year that all of a sudden there are Toko gloves and poles
which look exactly same as Yoko did till now. They also use same
thing to "connect" glow to ski pole etc. Besides that most of skiers
who were on Yoko last year have now Toko glowes. For me it looks like
Toko bought Yoko or something like that. They were somehow connected
before when I was still around, but this year it looks to me it's
only one company.
And I will repeat Yoko and Toko few more times and I won't know
what I'm talking about anymore
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(Rob Bradlee) wrote in message oo.com...

Yoko is (was?) a Finnish makers of gloves (yoko yoko is the Finnish
word for baseball - a game Finns love). The original Yoko ski gloves
were first developed for Motocross.

_Finnish_ baseball is a game that is very popular in those
parts of Finland where it is played - and goes completely
unappreciated in the big cities. "Joko, joko?" (roughly:
"Now, now?") is the derogatory, "humorous" word for "pesä-
pallo" (a direct translation of baseball) - which is also
described as "a gane in which one player stands (with a bat
in his hands) and ten players shout "Väärä!" ("Out!", if
that is the right word for a "wrong" pitch - in the vertical
pesäpallo pitch: either too low or off the plate).

(Some Finns just love to teach foreigners Finnish expressions
that don´t quite mean what they´re supposed to - and some seem
to love it even more when the true meaning is a bit rude...)

_American_ baseball is a game Finns know *nothing* about.


Yoko then developed the 232 system and thereby got into the pole
business. The 232 comes from the id number of the famous Finnish
fireman (and athlete) who developed the system. He is know all through
Finland as "232".

You know some things better than 99.9% of the Finns:-) Winning
the Finlandia has never made anyone a household name here - and
outside of serious skiing circles (with some knowledge of history,
which is an ever rarer thing nowadays) the name of Alpo Virtanen
would bring only the response of "Who?" even among those who
could name Pauli Siitonen.

BTW I thought they were both policemen - but maybe they were
were non-policemen in a "Policemen´s Sports Club" like Kari
Ristanen?

And, of course, I knew nothing about his role in the design of
the 232 system nor about the origin of the name - and you could
be just putting me on:-)


Since Yoko was not in the pole business they hired Karhu to manufacture
the shafts.

Yes, "manufacture and market", as Karhu says. (But, curiously,
Karhu´s lawyers didn´t/couldn´t shake off the case by telling
Exel to sue Toko in Switzerland...)


Toko and Yoko have always had a very close working relationship.
(Which probably explains why Karhu imported Toko to Finland). Toko has
now taken over Yoko's ski glove and pole business. I don't knows if
Yoko still makes baseball and motorcycle equipment.

The motorcycle stuff, brand, design etc, were purchased by Reima,
a Finnish clothing company, and the product line is doing well as
"Yoko(R".

(The original company went either bankrupt or the owners cashed
in - the memory is as hazy as ever...)

Anyway, there´s *another* Finnish company making ski gloves (and
other gear): Sinisalo:-)



Anders

Rob Bradlee wrote:

conglomerate that also owns Mammut climbing gear. (I have a nifty
jacket from them with built-in avalanche transponder! When that
avalanche hits Eastern Mass. I'll be ready).

Which I almost bought last year but got heart attack when I saw
price (a bit more then 600euros without avalanche transponder and
without fleece) so they drove me straight to hospital and I didn't
have time to buy that jacket Not to mention my wife would kill
me if I would accidentaly survive that heart attack

--
Primoz
Support - IP/VoIP Connectivity & Routing
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Primoz Jeroncic tel: +386 1 562 31 40 |
Borovec 2 fax: +386 1 562 18 55 | 1 + 1 = 3
1236 Trzin | for larger values of 1
Slovenija http://flea.softnet.si/
-------------------------------------------------------------------