Avalanche "prevention" --- during ski hours?

We just had an avalanche at our local ski area ("Ski Lee" in Lee Canyon, Las
Vegas). The area is visible in the background he
http://hwstock.org/nss/html/pan05NsisSnow_6128-9.htm

As it stands right now, unless a miracle ensues, at least one person is
lost.

I was snowshoeing nearby (on a parallel ridge) scouting out possible
backcountry runs, and I kept hearing explosions (at least 10), as the resort
was attempting to release "dangerous" pre-avalanche loads. These explosions
all took place several hours after the resort had opened, and the slopes
were crowded with people. The weather changed to light rain at 8800', the
snow got heavy, and we headed back to the car and left.

The avalanche occurred about 2 hours after we left. Some people reported
that a skier was swept off the chairlift. Two were rescued (dug out), one
known victim is still missing, and there are several cars, yet unidentified,
left in the parking lot after dark.

So, my question:

Do resorts often try to preen slopes of avalanche material, by explosions,
during ski hours? This resort is small, and all skiable slopes have pretty
much just one runout. The ski slopes end at natural avalanche chutes up on
the cliffs. Sorry if this question seems naive; all the footage I've seen
in the past, of man-made avalanches at ski resorts, showed explosions being
set in areas that were closed to skiing for the time of the operation. I
was quite surprised to hear so many explosions during such an active day at
the ski area, since there aren't too many places for the loose snow to go,
except down into the central start area by the lifts.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 03:39:03 GMT, "H.W. Stockman"
wrote:

We just had an avalanche at our local ski area ("Ski Lee" in Lee Canyon, Las
Vegas). The area is visible in the background he
http://hwstock.org/nss/html/pan05NsisSnow_6128-9.htm

As it stands right now, unless a miracle ensues, at least one person is
lost.

I was snowshoeing nearby (on a parallel ridge) scouting out possible
backcountry runs, and I kept hearing explosions (at least 10), as the resort
was attempting to release "dangerous" pre-avalanche loads. These explosions
all took place several hours after the resort had opened, and the slopes
were crowded with people. The weather changed to light rain at 8800', the
snow got heavy, and we headed back to the car and left.


In my experience, avalanche control is done on slopes that have no
chance of taking out customers for obvious reasons. I've seen it
routinely done during ski hours, but only in drainages that were empty
except for patrol and a couple of lift operators.

I found an article on this accident here;
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../25633446.html

If the slope was open, then a/c would not have been going on there,
since even without the danger of avalanches there's the danger of
blowing up your customers. So if there were skiers/riders on the
slope then it was probably set off by them. The article is not clear,
but it sounds as if the slope was open.

Of course it's also possible that someone completely ****ed up, but
setting off an avalanche and taking out the lift with people on it
would take an almost unimaginable lapse in judgement. From my
experience watching it over the years, the patrol is typically
cautious to the point of paranoia about customer safety.

DCraig.

wrote in message
...
[...] In my experience, avalanche control is done on slopes that have no
chance of taking out customers for obvious reasons. I've seen it
routinely done during ski hours, but only in drainages that were empty
except for patrol and a couple of lift operators.

I found an article on this accident here;

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../25633446.html

If the slope was open, then a/c would not have been going on there,
since even without the danger of avalanches there's the danger of
blowing up your customers. So if there were skiers/riders on the
slope then it was probably set off by them. The article is not clear,
but it sounds as if the slope was open.


I'm hoping it wasn't a screw-up, just a bad coincidence. But I am curious
about the warning to motorists not to honk horns, etc., because the noise
might set off another avalanche. The original explosions sure were loud --
even though we were two ridges away and not in line-of-sight. I guess this
warning was of the "let's-cover-all-bases type", but I bet some lawyer
siezes on it.

The forest service has been warning BC skiers and snowshoers to stay out of
the mountains for two weeks. We got a little bold yesterday, but stayed off
of steep slopes, and kept to areas where there were no obvious historical
avalanche tracks. The ski area is in a bowl right below many obvious
avalanche tracks, but the most popular run seems to be "protected" by a
promontory of unscarred forest.

"Kurt Knisely" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
[...]
http://www.avalanche.org/av-reports/...p3?OID=5406924

I get the feeling someone ****ed up. The first thing I thought about were
lawsuits and that cute little ski area closing up. Wild, just
wild--Snowboarder
dies in avalanche riding on ski lift in Vegas. I wonder if anything like
this
has ever happend in this hemisphere before?

I know this may sound like a "duh!", but I spoke with
someone who was on the slopes right before the
accident, and he said the avalanche control (the big
booms) was being performed on closed, isolated runs.

The ski area carries insurance; they may get to use it.

I wonder if the kid who was swept off the lift had his bar down. I'm
certainly not trying to imply that if it had been down, he would have been
fine, but I am curious.

-simon-

And it might not be renewed.


No, it might get more expencive, but I can't see them loosing their policy,
outright. No matter how this plays out, it certainly won't be the biggest
**** up in the history of ski resort liability claims. Or the biggest
pay-out.

-simon-

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article . net,
H.W. Stockman wrote:

So, my question:

Do resorts often try to preen slopes of avalanche material, by explosions,
during ski hours?

_ Yes, that is very common practice, however the runout zones are
supposed to be clear of people[1]. They have to do it on a fairly
regular basis to avoid setting off a really big avalanche.

_ They may have set off a much bigger avalanche than
intended. This has been known to happen, but generally it's only
the ski patrol that is affected. (i.e. the explosion causes an
avalanche to break above them, rather than below ). More
likely there was a repeat of the 1982 Alpine Meadows tragedy and
a slope avalanched that nobody ever expected to be a threat.

_ Given the size of this storm cycle, I expect we'll be seeing
lot's of avalanches in unexpected places. I recently heard on the
news that the Sierra hasn't had this much snow this early since
1916. Bombs can help with the normal predictable avalanche
threat, but 100 year avalanches are pretty hard to get a handle
on. And this seems like a 100 year storm cycle. When there's
this much loading, avalanches can run a long ways. Even though
you may be on normally "safe" ground you need to be aware of
what is above you in the valley. Weak layer collapses can
propagate from the flat ground in the valley to steeper terrain
and a cornice breaking off can cause avalanches on relatively low
angle terrain. Trees are no guarantee of safety.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]_ From what I see at places like Alpine Meadows and Sugar
Bowl, the "typical" runout zones are clear, but being truly
100% sure would mean closing the entire resort and the roads
running into it. Google for "1982 Alpine Meadows Avalanche"
to seem what I mean.

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"Simon Isbister" wrote in message
news:PQAEd.78650$dv1.12570@edtnps89...
I wonder if the kid who was swept off the lift had his bar down. I'm
certainly not trying to imply that if it had been down, he would have been
fine, but I am curious.


Initial reports say his bar was down, and he actually tried to brace himself
on the bar. The force of the avalanche was supposedly quite hard, and the
speculation is that he was immediately knocked unconscious, if not
immediately dealt a fatal blow (there was a lot of debri in the flow --
pieces of trees, rocks, etc.) The news just reported that he was found
under 25 feet of hardened snow.

H.W. Stockman wrote:

: Initial reports say his bar was down, and he actually tried to brace himself
: on the bar. The force of the avalanche was supposedly quite hard, and the
: speculation is that he was immediately knocked unconscious, if not
: immediately dealt a fatal blow (there was a lot of debri in the flow --
: pieces of trees, rocks, etc.) The news just reported that he was found
: under 25 feet of hardened snow.

what i don't follow is how an avy can get to you when you're up on a lift.
did he fall off the lift due to the shock of the avy hitting the lift tower?
everything reads as if the avy swept him off the lift- which would mean it
would have also snagged the chair, etc, which obviously didn't happen, since
others on the lift survived. this doesn't appear to be spelled out very
clearly in any of these reports.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
H.W. Stockman wrote:

: Initial reports say his bar was down, and he actually tried to brace
himself
: on the bar. The force of the avalanche was supposedly quite hard, and
the
: speculation is that he was immediately knocked unconscious, if not
: immediately dealt a fatal blow (there was a lot of debri in the flow --
: pieces of trees, rocks, etc.) The news just reported that he was found
: under 25 feet of hardened snow.

what i don't follow is how an avy can get to you when you're up on a lift.
did he fall off the lift due to the shock of the avy hitting the lift
tower?
everything reads as if the avy swept him off the lift- which would mean it
would have also snagged the chair, etc, which obviously didn't happen,
since
others on the lift survived. this doesn't appear to be spelled out very
clearly in any of these reports.

I think he was in the first chair, which was about to come to the top of the
lift, so the chair was closer to the ground at that point (than the chairs
behind). The avalanche was suppposedly quite high.