converting from classical to skating

Hello Listers,

I have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while and
I am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to ice
or in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style,
do I still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can share
with me some tricks for a starter of converting from classical to
skating. Also I am in a process of buying gears but I do not know
whether I should buy classical gear or skating gear. I know I probably
should avoid combo gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used for
skating, but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

SS

Definitely take lessons. (Everyone in this country is so into
"do-it-yourself". Have some respect for we teachers and coaches. We
really can make a difference!)

You will need all new equipment for skating. Skis, boots, poles. If
you need new classical gear, then that's a separate purchase.

Rob Bradlee

--- "S. S." wrote:
Hello Listers,

I have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while
and
I am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to
ice
or in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style,
do I still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can share
with me some tricks for a starter of converting from classical to
skating. Also I am in a process of buying gears but I do not know
whether I should buy classical gear or skating gear. I know I
probably
should avoid combo gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used
for
skating, but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

SS






=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

SS,

I do not know how to ice or in-line skate.

You can overcome this....

do I still need to take lessons to learn skate?

Yup, take a lesson, you will learn correct form right away and not have
to "un-learn" any bad habits that you may pick up along the way.

I do not know whether I should buy classical gear or skating gear.

Base your decision on where you ski the most. I bought new classic gear
this year with combi boots, and a used set of skate skis. Most of the
trails close to me are groomed classic only, so that covers most of my
skiing hours per week, the new classic gear was the better investment.
The skate gear was purchased used, and with the combi boots, I set
myself up w/o breaking the bank too bad. One set of boots, two sets of
skis.

I think classical gear cannot be used for skating,
but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

I started playing w. skate technique on classic skis, it works, but not
well, and skate gear cannot be used for classic. Once you've skated on
real skate skis, skating on classic skis is cumbersome at best.

I went through the same thought process earlier this year, and I'm glad
I made the choice I did.

Hope this helps,

e.





-----Original Message-----
From: ]
On Behalf Of S. S.
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list NORDIC-SKI
Subject: converting from classical to skating


Hello Listers,

I have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while and I
am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to ice or
in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style, do I
still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can share with me
some tricks for a starter of converting from classical to skating. Also
I am in a process of buying gears but I do not know whether I should buy
classical gear or skating gear. I know I probably should avoid combo
gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used for skating, but can
skating gear be used for classical xc?

SS

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Nevalainen, Eric wrote:

do I still need to take lessons to learn skate?

Yup, take a lesson, you will learn correct form right away and not have
to "un-learn" any bad habits that you may pick up along the way.

This is more important that you can probably imagine. Un-learing bad
habits is undoubtedly what most coaches who work with masters skiers
have to spend most of their teaching time on.


Base your decision on where you ski the most. I bought new classic gear
this year with combi boots, and a used set of skate skis. Most of the
trails close to me are groomed classic only, so that covers most of my
skiing hours per week, the new classic gear was the better investment.
The skate gear was purchased used, and with the combi boots, I set
myself up w/o breaking the bank too bad. One set of boots, two sets of
skis.

An excellent idea for someone working on a budget. According to the
article by Jay Tegeder in this month's Master Skier, combi boots are
now even becoming popular on the World Cup circuit for "running pursuit".


I think classical gear cannot be used for skating,
but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

I started playing w. skate technique on classic skis, it works, but not
well,

Many of us old farts began skating on classic skis. There was no such
thing as skating skis when skating first became popular. Now is a good
time to re-read the above comment about un-learning bad habits! :-)


and skate gear cannot be used for classic.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Skate skis most definitely can be used for
classic. You'll give up some glide but if you're not racing and looking
for all the speed you can get it's quite acceptable. It's a lot of work
taking a ski back and forth between skate and classic due to having to
really clean it well before re-waxing.

Skate length poles should most definitely not be used for classic since
they will really screw up your technique badly. (Again refer to bad habits
section.)

There are quite a few folks who actually prefer skating boots for classic,
primarily for the added lateral ankle support, which really helps on the
downhills. I happen to be one, though my skating boots are Alpina which
have an acceptably flexible sole. I have not skied in Salomon since
before Profil, but I've heard some comments that the Salomon skating
sole is too stiff longitudinally for classic.

I've done a few classic marathons on skate skis when tracks were lousy
or non-existent. Was actually quite pleased with the result. It's far
better to ski a classic marathon on a too soft ski than a too stiff one.
Made that mistake at least once, too!


Once you've skated on
real skate skis, skating on classic skis is cumbersome at best.

Absolutely. (Bad habits...)

-Mitch

You didn't say where you are, but go to a good resort (or shop) and rent
or demo equipment and take a lesson. Ask the instructor about skate
equipment and how the skis work. Visit a good specialized ski shop or
two with knowledgeable staff if you can and let them fit you on skis and
with poles. But I do suggest starting with a rental/demo and a lesson
rather than plunging in with a purchase. It's an investment and worth
it to do with some idea of what's involved. Whatever you do in
purchasing, start with getting a comfortable boot fit (bindings follow
and the two brands are equal), and don't go for bottom of the line poles
(try a mid-line pole with substantial carbon fibre content, i.e.,
relatively light, and with a good strap). At first, and for awhile,
you'll probably feel awkward skating, but keep with it, take lessons
from time to time, and watch what good skaters do. Good luck,

Gene


"S. S." wrote:

Hello Listers,

I have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while and
I am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to ice
or in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style,
do I still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can share
with me some tricks for a starter of converting from classical to
skating. Also I am in a process of buying gears but I do not know
whether I should buy classical gear or skating gear. I know I probably
should avoid combo gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used for
skating, but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

SS

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

"S. S." wrote:
Hello Listers,

I have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while and
I am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to ice
or in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style,
do I still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can share
with me some tricks for a starter of converting from classical to
skating.

Yes. The "trick" to picking up skating fast is to start out with a lesson so you don't have to try to invent the wheel yourself. This is not absolutely necessary, but is a whole lot more rewarding.

Also I am in a process of buying gears but I do not know
whether I should buy classical gear or skating gear. I know I probably
should avoid combo gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used for
skating, but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

You're on the right track here-- combo gear is generally unsatisfactory because it makes compromises on both styles. You can skate on in classic boots-- it works but the boots don't give you much support. Skating on classic skis is not much fun because the ski camber is totally wrong for skating. You can classic in skate boots (but not very comfortably, i.e., for long distances); similar to the results of skating on classic skis, striding on skate skis is not very effective.

I'd suggest renting skating gear and taking a lesson. You may have so much fun with it that it will make your gear purchasing decision for you.

Chris C.

SLC






---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
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DIVBI"S. S." >/I/B wrote:
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"
PEMHello Listers,BRBRI have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while andBRI am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to iceBRor in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style,BRdo I still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can shareBRwith me some tricks for a starter of converting from classical toBRskating./EM/P
PYes.  The "trick" to picking up skating fast is to start out with a lesson so you don't have to try to invent the wheel yourself.  This is not absolutely necessary, but is a whole lot more rewarding./P
PEM Also I am in a process of buying gears but I do not knowBRwhether I should buy classical gear or skating gear. I know I probablyBRshould avoid combo gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used forBRskating, but can skating gear be used for classical xc?/EM/P
PYou're on the right track here-- combo gear is generally unsatisfactory because it makes compromises on both styles.  You can skate on in classic boots-- it works but the boots don't give you much support.  Skating on classic skis is not much fun because the ski camber is totally wrong for skating.  You can classic in skate boots (but not very comfortably, i.e., for long distances); similar to the results of skating on classic skis, striding on skate skis is not very effective./P
PI'd suggest renting skating gear and taking a lesson.  You may have so much fun with it that it will make your gear purchasing decision for you.BRBRChris C./P
PSLCBRBRBR/P/BLOCKQUOTE/DIVphr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
Yahoo! Finance: a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=22055/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html"Get your refund fast by filing online/a
--0-808979083-1076437254=:6985--

I think it's worth trying to find a good _place_ to take your early
lessons -- a ski center with a wide flat practice area and at least one 2.5
km loop of a wide gentle trail. Many XC ski centers have narrow trails
which are good for classic striding, and fun for advanced skaters, but are
no good for _learning_ to skate.

If you say what region you ski in, some of could make suggestions. Like in
New York, one place stands above the rest for learning to skate: Mt Van
Hoevenberg in Lake Placid. (My problem is that Sharon is learning to skate
and took a lesson there, so now she regards it as a complete no-brainer that
of course we're going to drive the extra two hours round-trip, even though I
could be happy myself someplace closer)

Also, you might want to use some care in choosing which days you go to learn
to skate -- so you get favorable snow conditions: The magic of skating is
about gliding, so you don't want to be learning on a day when the snow is
soft or deep and your skis get bogged down. But also not so hard and icy
that it takes skill to get the edge of the ski to dig into the surface.

I liked Gene's mention of the word "demo". Especially if it's a warm day
and the snow might be wet, you might want to be renting a pair of "demo"
skis -- because the difference in glide between a good ski and a "normal
rental" ski can be large on some days like that. I feel sorry for beginners
hoping to feel the magic of skating on draggy skis. So choosing a ski
center with a large rental program could help.

Ken

Dear S.S. You've been given a lot of good advice and without repeating what
others have said, try not to think of "converting" from classic to skating,
but of simply learning something new - its like acquiring a second
language - you don't abandon your first do you?

What most of the folks in our club (Horseshoe Valley) do is skate on days or
mornings where the conditions are perfect for it - icy crusts, or
temperatures close to or above freezing where the kick waxing is a pain in
the you-know-what. We tend to do the classic skiing in colder temperatures,
when application of those cold green or blue waxes gives you good,
straightforward results.

When you get to your club or resort you have to decide - Is this a classic
day or a skate day? That means of course two sets of skis, poles, boots etc
and a bigger wax kit than you needed just for classic.

But understand this - these are really two very different disciplines - and
you have to get lessons and really practice hard to get the skate technique
right. It takes time, dedication, and practice to do this. After skiing
years one way, learning a new and challenging technique is really a lot of
fun, and adds a whole new dimension to the sport. And you do go faster -
which is still important, even for old farts.
Cameron Campbell
Toronto


"S. S." wrote in message
om...
Hello Listers,

I have been doing classical style cross country skiing for a while and
I am thinking of converting to skating style. I do not know how to ice
or in-line skate. If I am quite comfortable with the classical style,
do I still need to take lessons to learn skate? Or anyone can share
with me some tricks for a starter of converting from classical to
skating. Also I am in a process of buying gears but I do not know
whether I should buy classical gear or skating gear. I know I probably
should avoid combo gear, and I think classical gear cannot be used for
skating, but can skating gear be used for classical xc?

SS

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Cameron Campbell wrote:

When you get to your club or resort you have to decide - Is this a classic
day or a skate day? That means of course two sets of skis, poles, boots etc
and a bigger wax kit than you needed just for classic.

I agree with everything Cameron wrote except this last bit: The wax kit is
the very same wax kit you have for classic - you just don't use any of
those kick waxes when you are waxing your skating skis. Since you wax the
tip and tail of your classic skis for glide (you do wax the tip and tail
for glide, don't you?), those waxes are the waxes you use for the whole
skate ski.

Going the other way more than doubles the size of the wax box, however.
-Ken


************************************************** *********
Kenneth Salzberg
Hamline University
School of Law (651) 523-2354
1536 Hewitt Ave.
Sisu Skier - 50K Club St. Paul, MN 55104
************************************************** ****************

I started fooling around with skating with a 178cm pair that i have
and they work fine for both skating and classic. I think the
supported i guess plastic boots are a big help. I just bought a pair
of Atomic RS:8 Combi 03/04 from skirack.com for the unbelievable price
of $92(w/o bindings). Check them out, i bought a 203 for mostly
classic but they rip for my skating, no trouble. I just bought
another pair of skis from them, these were only $83 190cm for skating
only. bindings, mounting and shipping does push it up, but i wouldnt'
waste my money on expensive skis(unless you are looking for that last
5-10%). Mostly hype and i've been skiing over 30 years, its in the
legs! But if you buy a 190cm for skating - you can classical ski on
them NO TROUBLE, i've been doing classic on shorted skis for years,
and really experimenting, hard to tell the difference, in fact the
shorter skis are much more manueverable in tight self-made tracks and
much safer and easier to turn on downhills, without loosing much speed
in the flats, but you do loose a certain amount of what we'll say is
stability.

I just refound 2 areas of groomed snowmobile trails, 15 and 30min from
my house and i am in SKATERS HEAVEN this year(many many miles),
especially since we've had a crust from frozen rain on the snow for
weeks to ruin classical.(i have 4 miles of private trails on my own
land-skis on in garageg) Makes skating a whole different thing, so
look for snowmobile trails if you have them close, maybe along
railroad tracks. Also you can skate real nice, on like a golf course
or anyplace where the snow held, later in the year, as the snowpack
melts, then refreezes hard(but not too hard).

Skating rules. It takes a while to work into the fitness, because
it's so much in your arms, but it's so much in your legs too. Its'
taken me a few years to really get it down. But now i fly. Also you
definetely need long, stiff poles.

Glenn
The Poconos, Pa.