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#1
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
BNS Sports has what looks like a really hot structure tool. It cuts
the structure into the ski. Anyone have any experience or heard the buzz about this ski tuning tool? I figure if I can ever learn to steel scrap a ski like Zach C. and get glassy smooth finish and follow with this new tool, I will have discovered the holy grail! |
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#2
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 5, 11:52*pm, ADK Skier wrote:
BNS Sports has what looks like a really hot structure tool. It cuts the structure into the ski. Anyone have any experience or heard the buzz about this ski tuning tool? I figure if I can ever learn to steel scrap a ski like Zach C. and get glassy smooth finish and follow with this new tool, I will have discovered the holy grail! The latest really hot thing that comes from Sweden is the scrape developed by guys around Uppsala univeristy. It's a sort of follow-up or improvement on or a parallel or lateral development to Kuzmin's disputed tool. The relevant pages on the site are unfortunately in Swedish but maybe the pics and/or an online translation can help a bit http://www.primateria.se/Skidskrapan.htm Anders PS "Kuzmin-prepared" skis have been proven decent enough to, at least in a certain snow condition, get you in the top forty in Mora. (To the wisecracks out the even if you aren't a top ten guy...) |
#3
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 8, 2:00*am, Anders wrote:
On Dec 5, 11:52*pm, ADK Skier wrote: BNS Sports has what looks like a really hot structure tool. It cuts the structure into the ski. Anyone have any experience or heard the buzz about this ski tuning tool? I figure if I can ever learn to steel scrap a ski like Zach C. and get glassy smooth finish and follow with this new tool, I will have discovered the holy grail! The latest really hot thing that comes from Sweden is the scrape developed by guys around Uppsala univeristy. It's a sort of follow-up or improvement on or a parallel or lateral development to Kuzmin's disputed tool. The relevant pages on the site are unfortunately in Swedish but maybe the pics and/or an online translation can help a bithttp://www.primateria..se/Skidskrapan.htm Anders PS "Kuzmin-prepared" skis have been proven decent enough to, at least in a certain snow condition, get you in the top forty in Mora. (To the wisecracks out the even if you aren't a topten guy...) Thanks once again Anders. Anders have you heard or read why Tobias Angerer seem to be struggling this season? |
#4
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Machine translation, unedited:
Research has today shown that it is very important that belagens active glidytor, on micrometer level, is done very smooth if the skis will slide easily. This applies irrespective of if the skis are choice placed or not, or if they have a structure or not. One has also can sensible that glidvalla on skis in certain case is not needed in order to few one good slide. This is experienced of majority that an advantage since it often is time-consuming, difficult and costly to apply vallan and that the skis only retains slided during a shorter time. Primateria has along with skidåkare on eliten level (Ronnie Löf) and researchers from Uppsala universities (professor Sture Hogmark) taken forward sicklar that on a simple way can give optimumly smooth contact surfaces on the skis' belag. Physicals have shown that sicklarna functioned very good both in the laboratory and in skidspåret. The physicals has also shown that sicklarna functions excellently also for choice to placed skis. It is important to point out that entirely smooth belag seldom functions good. It is required normally seen that the skis have a combination of smooth contact surfaces and a structure tailored to skidföret. The secret in producing smooth surfaces lies in that avgrada and to buff sickelns encourages. Moreover, it acts about producing sicklarna in correct materials so that they retain their mould and lucidity during long time. It hides itself a lot of theoretical knowledge about tribologi (the faith about how surfaces in contact with each other interagerar) behind they to is visible simple measures that do that sickeln functions to sow very better. Professor Sture Hogmark has in your research in this matter can to explain tribologiskt why skidbelaget and thereby also sickelns edge must last considerably smoother than what that is the case with the products that finns on the market today. Primateria has in collaboration with Uppsala universities performed one examensarbete where an equipment been taken forward in order to can to test and to evaluate skidbelagets friction and function against different types of snow and ice. Primateria has sent in one pantentansökan for sickeln 2007-01-24. The project is supported financially of Innovationsbron Uppsala. Now, we have - new sicklar to sale. Pinches and more information about sicklarna and how them will be used finds you below as PDF-filer. If you want to buy someone or some of our products so is it only to contact ourselves per telephone (018-10 70 26) or e-mail ). Prislista sicklar Information sicklar (recipes and handling) Brochure sicklar Information about rillverktyg Read published article about skidskrapan in Uppsala new newspaper. Read published article about skidskrapan in new technology. Examensarbete “Friction characteristics between ski base wild duck ice” |
#5
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 8, 4:42*pm, Jan Gerrit Klok Jan.Gerrit.Klok.
wrote: Machine translation, unedited: Research has today shown that it is very important that belagens active glidytor, on micrometer level, is done very smooth if the skis will slide easily. This applies irrespective of if the skis are choice placed or not, or if they have a structure or not. One has also can sensible that glidvalla on skis in certain case is not needed in order to few one good slide. This is experienced of majority that an advantage since it often is time-consuming, difficult and costly to apply vallan and that the skis only retains slided during a shorter time. Primateria has along with skidåkare on eliten level (Ronnie Löf) and researchers from Uppsala universities (professor Sture Hogmark) taken forward sicklar that on a simple way can give optimumly smooth contact surfaces on the skis' belag. Physicals have shown that sicklarna functioned very good both in the laboratory and in skidspåret. The physicals has also shown that sicklarna functions excellently also for choice to placed skis. It is important to point out that entirely smooth belag seldom functions good. It is required normally seen that the skis have a combination of smooth contact surfaces and a structure tailored to skidföret. The secret in producing smooth surfaces lies in that avgrada and to buff sickelns encourages. Moreover, it acts about producing sicklarna in correct materials so that they retain their mould and lucidity during long time. It hides itself a lot of theoretical knowledge about tribologi (the faith about how surfaces in contact with each other interagerar) behind they to is visible simple measures that do that sickeln functions to sow very better. Professor Sture Hogmark has in your research in this matter can to explain tribologiskt why skidbelaget and thereby also sickelns edge must last considerably smoother than what that is the case with the products that finns on the market today. Primateria has in collaboration with Uppsala universities performed one examensarbete where an equipment been taken forward in order to can to test and to evaluate skidbelagets friction and function against different types of snow and ice. Primateria has sent in one pantentansökan for sickeln 2007-01-24. The project is supported financially of Innovationsbron Uppsala. Now, we have - new sicklar to sale. Pinches and more information about sicklarna and how them will be used finds you below as PDF-filer. If you want to buy someone or some of our products so is it only to contact ourselves per telephone (018-10 70 26) or e-mail ). Prislista sicklar Information sicklar (recipes and handling) Brochure sicklar Information about rillverktyg Read published article about skidskrapan in Uppsala new newspaper. Read published article about skidskrapan in new technology. Examensarbete “Friction characteristics between ski base wild duck ice” -- Jan Gerrit Klok Wow!! Thank you for sharing this but I have really difficult time understanding the information. What I was originally implying about smooth glass like finishes was that if a ski base is metal scrapped correctly the finish product should have a glass like smooth finish. However I don't think this is what the skier wants to race on. Hence the Finish Finite Structure tool from BNS I was referring to. If possible could you help us understand what the tool you describe does. Does it peel the base, structure, or do both. |
#6
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 8, 9:39*pm, ADK Skier wrote:
Thanks once again Anders. Anders have you heard or read why Tobias Angerer seem to be struggling this season? Well, his last season was such a disaster - by the standards of his previous two seasons - mainly because he had become too cocky and upped his training load by 10%. After a few good results early in the season he felt too tired both physically and mentally by the time Tour de Ski started. He even began to fall on a regular basis because he lost concentration and wasn't really alert anymore. This season he has backed off from such training madness - according to national coach Jochen Behle, he's done 800 km less than last year - and put less pressure on himself to perform well before Tour de Ski. He also intends to skip the North American WC races in order to concentrate on his main goal(s) in Liberec. He won the pre-WC "training race" in Muonio. In Gällivare he had a rather slippery pair of skis and in Kuusamo he didn't do too badly. In La Clusaz he was already sick with flu and had to DNS the relay. Maybe the evidence so far is misleading? Anyway, he's had quite a few changes in the summer: he switched his training base from Oberhof to Ruhbolding, he changed from Atomic to Rossignol, moved into a new house and - last but not least - became the proud father of a girl. Maybe it takes a few more races to make things click together? Anders |
#7
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 9, 2:48*am, ADK Skier wrote:
Wow!! Thank you for sharing this but I have really difficult time understanding the information. What I was originally implying about smooth glass like finishes was that if a ski base is metal scrapped correctly the finish product should have a glass like smooth finish. However I don't think this is what the skier wants to race on. Hence the Finish Finite Structure tool from BNS I was referring to. If possible could you help us understand what the tool you describe does. Does it peel the base, structure, or do both. The Primateria scrape is in fact a suite of three scrapes: rough or ground scrape (which peels the base pretty much like or better than the Kuzmin scrape), structure scrape (which gives as the name implies structure) and a polish scrape (which will return and perfect the smoothness of the contact surface "above the structure"). All specially designed and manufactured with special technology from special material. Sounds almost like the stuff they sell on daytime TV, but there seems to be a lot of genuine enthusiasm out there for the product. I don't claim to understand half of what I've read (and I certainly didn't even try to read the 42-page PDF) but the whole point seems to be to get _as a necessary precondition for getting a good glide_ a maximally smooth and blank contact surface quite regardless whether you have a stonegrind or not and whether you put on base wax or not and whether you put on glide wax or not. However - and indeed as you, too, think above - this isn't the be all and and all; you need and want a structure and this is what the set of scrapes is said to achieve with remarkable ease and result. The brochure gives several methods of using the three scrapes according to the quality of the ski base (worn or not, fine stonegrind or not) and the snow (wet or not) ranging from a once over with two scrapes to all three including up to five times with the structure scrape. The polish scrape can also be used to finish after using a riller. (Talking of rillers, the hot favourite - used among others by the Norwegian national team - is the RS riller, whose developer speaks favourably of the Primateria scrapes. He also says good glide consists 80% of ski choice, 18% of structure and 2% of wax, "although the percentage can vary according to distance and snow conditions".) I'm not sure that any of this helps you, but if I can get open-minded skiers to experiment (or at least make experiment-willing skiers aware that there's something going on in Sweden), I suppose my posts in this thread have served their purpose. Anders |
#8
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 9, 7:14*am, Anders wrote:
On Dec 8, 9:39*pm, ADK Skier wrote: Thanks once again Anders. Anders have you heard or read why Tobias Angerer seem to be struggling this season? Well, his last season was such a disaster - by the standards of his previous two seasons - mainly because he had become too cocky and upped his training load by 10%. After a few good results early in the season he felt too tired both physically and mentally by the time Tour de Ski started. He even began to fall on a regular basis because he lost concentration and wasn't really alert anymore. This season he has backed off from such training madness - according to national coach Jochen Behle, he's done 800 km less than last year - and put less pressure on himself to perform well before Tour de Ski. He also intends to skip the North American WC races in order to concentrate on his main goal(s) in Liberec. He won the pre-WC "training race" in Muonio. In Gällivare he had a rather slippery pair of skis and in Kuusamo he didn't do too badly. In La Clusaz he was already sick with flu and had to DNS the relay. Maybe the evidence so far is misleading? Anyway, he's had quite a few changes in the summer: he switched his training base from Oberhof to Ruhbolding, he changed from Atomic to Rossignol, moved into a new house and - last but not least - became the proud father of a girl. Maybe it takes a few more races to make things click together? Anders Thanks Anders, lets look forward to Tobias getting over is cod quickly and coming back early in this season. |
#9
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 9, 7:38*am, Anders wrote:
(Talking of rillers, the hot favourite - used among others by the Norwegian national team - is the RS riller, Looks very much like the structure tool Jenex / V2 markets. http://translate.google.com/translat...2522%26hl%3Den He also says good glide consists 80% of ski choice, 18% of structure and 2% of wax, "although the percentage can vary according to distance and snow conditions".) This is an absolutely correct (but suprisingly obscure) statement - more people should understand this. If the ski is not flexed correctly for you and your style of skiing, there isn't a structure or wax in the world that will help you go faster. My experience has been that extreme conditions (warm air, wet snow for instance) will skew the percentages higher for structure and wax, but only a few percent. - Bob |
#10
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New Finite Finish Structure Tool
On Dec 9, 7:38*am, Anders wrote:
On Dec 9, 2:48*am, ADK Skier wrote: Wow!! Thank you for sharing this but I have really difficult time understanding the information. What I was originally implying about smooth glass like finishes was that if a ski base is metal scrapped correctly the finish product should have a glass like smooth finish. However I don't think this is what the skier wants to race on. Hence the Finish Finite Structure tool from BNS I was referring to. If possible could you help us understand what the tool you describe does. Does it peel the base, structure, or do both. The Primateria scrape is in fact a suite of three scrapes: rough or ground scrape (which peels the base pretty much like or better than the Kuzmin scrape), structure scrape (which gives as the name implies structure) and a polish scrape (which will return and perfect the smoothness of the contact surface "above the structure"). All specially designed and manufactured with special technology from special material. Sounds almost like the stuff they sell on daytime TV, but there seems to be a lot of genuine enthusiasm out there for the product. I don't claim to understand half of what I've read (and I certainly didn't even try to read the 42-page PDF) but the whole point seems to be to get _as a necessary precondition for getting a good glide_ a maximally smooth and blank contact surface quite regardless whether you have a stonegrind or not and whether you put on base wax or not and whether you put on glide wax or not. However - and indeed as you, too, think above - this isn't the be all and and all; you need and want a structure and this is what the set of scrapes is said to achieve with remarkable ease and result. The brochure gives several methods of using the three scrapes according to the quality of the ski base (worn or not, fine stonegrind or not) and the snow (wet or not) ranging from a once over with two scrapes to all three including up to five times with the structure scrape. The polish scrape can also be used to finish after using a riller. (Talking of rillers, the hot favourite - used among others by the Norwegian national team - is the RS riller, whose developer speaks favourably of the Primateria scrapes. He also says good glide consists 80% of ski choice, 18% of structure and 2% of wax, "although the percentage can vary according to distance and snow conditions".) I'm not sure that any of this helps you, but if I can get open-minded skiers to experiment (or at least make experiment-willing skiers aware that there's something going on in Sweden), I suppose my posts in this thread have served their purpose. Anders Anders thanks for youre follow up. It cleared many things up for me. I'm going to check out how much these tools cost in US currency. Thanks again for your time in explaining this. It's interesting seeing new tools come out for base preparation. |
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