Wheels to snow - difficult transition

Hi everyone,

I was fortunate to spend the last few days at Mont St. Anne and a
couple of other places around Quebec city. Among other things, I put
in a fair amount of skate skiing (for which I'd been practicing on my
roller skis for about a year) and got a couple of hours of
instruction.

I've seen a lot of comments about how bad classic roller skiing can be
for you, with its "false grip on kick" and all. I don't recall seeing
much about how different snow skating is from doing it on wheels. I
admit I'd only been on skate skis a couple of times before.

Anyway, my biggest problem right off was slipping on push-off. And I
don't mean the usual "give" of the snow. I was really slipping to the
point of nearly losing my balance. It was really bad on hard packed
snow, but wasn't much better on softer stuff. By the end of my stay
this got a little better with slightly longer skis and more deliberate
weight transfer, but I never quite got over it.

Secondly, it turned out that I simply can't do V2 - you know, the
technique used on flats. Turns out that I always do offset. I agree
with what my instructor said about the inefficiency of pretending to
be climbing all the time, but I never really grasped the essense of
V2. On the one hand, she was insisting on the stuff that goes with
complete weight shift - knee, hips, face over the ski that lands flat.
On the other hand she wanted to see my poles even with each other,
sort of like in classic double-polling. I just can't figure out how
you can be twisting to one side and poling straihgt at the same time.

I'd appreciate you ideas on these two things (slipping and V2). I
might have another opportunity to be on snow in Feb and try to work on
this some more.

Happy skiing,

Larry

Many folks will only DP on classic rollerskis. I believe that youn can
stride effectively on rollers skis if you concentrate on the kick DOWN then
back with each stride. I was at a clinic with John Alhberg where he
advocated only DP kick on classic rollerskis with an exaagerated kick down,
actually lifting the kick ski up off the ground and forcefully slamming it
on the pavement. As for skating, most rollerskis pretty effectively
simulate on snow conditions. This works both ways. Bad or good technique
will translate to snow. We are about to do the dreaded snow to wheel
transition here in lower Michigan with a serious thaw underway.

The FrontRunner

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

I was fortunate to spend the last few days at Mont St. Anne and a
couple of other places around Quebec city. Among other things, I put
in a fair amount of skate skiing (for which I'd been practicing on my
roller skis for about a year) and got a couple of hours of
instruction.

I've seen a lot of comments about how bad classic roller skiing can be
for you, with its "false grip on kick" and all. I don't recall seeing
much about how different snow skating is from doing it on wheels. I
admit I'd only been on skate skis a couple of times before.

Anyway, my biggest problem right off was slipping on push-off. And I
don't mean the usual "give" of the snow. I was really slipping to the
point of nearly losing my balance. It was really bad on hard packed
snow, but wasn't much better on softer stuff. By the end of my stay
this got a little better with slightly longer skis and more deliberate
weight transfer, but I never quite got over it.

Secondly, it turned out that I simply can't do V2 - you know, the
technique used on flats. Turns out that I always do offset. I agree
with what my instructor said about the inefficiency of pretending to
be climbing all the time, but I never really grasped the essense of
V2. On the one hand, she was insisting on the stuff that goes with
complete weight shift - knee, hips, face over the ski that lands flat.
On the other hand she wanted to see my poles even with each other,
sort of like in classic double-polling. I just can't figure out how
you can be twisting to one side and poling straihgt at the same time.

I'd appreciate you ideas on these two things (slipping and V2). I
might have another opportunity to be on snow in Feb and try to work on
this some more.

Happy skiing,

Larry

I'm tempted to say Ahlberg is old style, and he may be, but the debate
about whether to focus on back or forward was going on in the States
as early as the 1980s, if not before. You're a good skier, so idea
of pushing down and back might not do harm. The same thing can be
accomplished by getting off the top of the rollerski quickly, with
focus on forward leg swing and drive. To an instructor what's going on
behind may be a further indicator of a problem, but as long as one is
not bicycling it really doesn't matter what goes on behind. And the
push down is a function of upper body action not leg/foot push.

RM

"FrontRunner" wrote:

Many folks will only DP on classic rollerskis. I believe that youn can
stride effectively on rollers skis if you concentrate on the kick DOWN then
back with each stride. I was at a clinic with John Alhberg where he
advocated only DP kick on classic rollerskis with an exaagerated kick down,
actually lifting the kick ski up off the ground and forcefully slamming it
on the pavement. As for skating, most rollerskis pretty effectively
simulate on snow conditions. This works both ways. Bad or good technique
will translate to snow. We are about to do the dreaded snow to wheel
transition here in lower Michigan with a serious thaw underway.

The FrontRunner

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

I was fortunate to spend the last few days at Mont St. Anne and a
couple of other places around Quebec city. Among other things, I put
in a fair amount of skate skiing (for which I'd been practicing on my
roller skis for about a year) and got a couple of hours of
instruction.

I've seen a lot of comments about how bad classic roller skiing can be
for you, with its "false grip on kick" and all. I don't recall seeing
much about how different snow skating is from doing it on wheels. I
admit I'd only been on skate skis a couple of times before.

Anyway, my biggest problem right off was slipping on push-off. And I
don't mean the usual "give" of the snow. I was really slipping to the
point of nearly losing my balance. It was really bad on hard packed
snow, but wasn't much better on softer stuff. By the end of my stay
this got a little better with slightly longer skis and more deliberate
weight transfer, but I never quite got over it.

Secondly, it turned out that I simply can't do V2 - you know, the
technique used on flats. Turns out that I always do offset. I agree
with what my instructor said about the inefficiency of pretending to
be climbing all the time, but I never really grasped the essense of
V2. On the one hand, she was insisting on the stuff that goes with
complete weight shift - knee, hips, face over the ski that lands flat.
On the other hand she wanted to see my poles even with each other,
sort of like in classic double-polling. I just can't figure out how
you can be twisting to one side and poling straihgt at the same time.

I'd appreciate you ideas on these two things (slipping and V2). I
might have another opportunity to be on snow in Feb and try to work on
this some more.

Happy skiing,

Larry

On Jan 5, 8:38*pm, Larry wrote:
Hi everyone,

I was fortunate to spend the last few days at Mont St. Anne and a
couple of other places around Quebec city. Among other things, I put
in a fair amount of skate skiing (for which I'd been practicing on my
roller skis for about a year) and got a couple of hours of
instruction.

I've seen a lot of comments about how bad classic roller skiing can be
for you, with its "false grip on kick" and all. I don't recall seeing
much about how different snow skating is from doing it on wheels. I
admit I'd only been on skate skis a couple of times before.

Anyway, my biggest problem right off was slipping on push-off. And I
don't mean the usual "give" of the snow. I was really slipping to the
point of nearly losing my balance. It was really bad on hard packed
snow, but wasn't much better on softer stuff. By the end of my stay
this got a little better with slightly longer skis and more deliberate
weight transfer, but I never quite got over it.

Secondly, it turned out that I simply can't do V2 - you know, the
technique used on flats. Turns out that I always do offset. I agree
with what my instructor said about the inefficiency of pretending to
be climbing all the time, but I never really grasped the essense of
V2. On the one hand, she was insisting on the stuff that goes with
complete weight shift - knee, hips, face over the ski that lands flat.
On the other hand she wanted to see my poles even with each other,
sort of like in classic double-polling. I just can't figure out how
you can be twisting to one side and poling straihgt at the same time.

I'd appreciate you ideas on these two things (slipping and V2). I
might have another opportunity to be on snow in Feb and try to work on
this some more.

Happy skiing,

Larry

Hi Larry,

Reading your description of slipping on the push off makes me wonder
if perhaps you are somewhat bow legged(?).
That would make it difficult to engage the edge, and would not be as
noticeable on roller skis. I've known some people who have had this
issue, and they have been helped with some sort of wedge on the inside
of the foot, either in the boot or under the binding. I know Salomon
used to make wedges that went under their bindings. I don't know if
they still do, but some shops may still have some around.

Maybe watching some good videos, instructional or racing, before you
get your next chance to ski would help to get a better sense of V2 vs.
V1. Don't think about it too much; you can go crazy trying to figure
out the details and timing down to the millisecond. Better to get a
good image and to work with a good instructor who can help you to get
the feeling.

Good luck,

Bill