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#1
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Copper's Snow Report and Used Cars
At the beginning of the season someone noted that Copper was advertising
for someone (to paraphrase my recollection) write Copper's snow reports with enthusiasm. It apparently found the person. Here is yesterday's lead line (repeated again today): "Over 18 inches of the good stuff has graced the Copper slopes this month!" Now I would guess the average, unsuspecting person reading these things would think that the slopes are full of snow. I would guess that's why Copper writes this stuff. And, these reports are probably technically correct. (Though the Copper site itself says there has only been 17 inches this month.) Yet, this sort of statement is very misleading. The vast majority of this month's snow came at the beginning of the month. I don't think there's been more than several inches in the last couple weeks. The slopes at Copper are "graced" not only with snow but with many rocks and bare spots. Almost any lift ride leads to conversations about how we really need more snow. This weekend lift attendants shrugged when I asked where there was good coverage. This puffery is the kind of misleading stuff that - while perhaps technically true - requires one to pay so much attention that it seems more like dealing with a used car dealer rather than a resort. Moreover, it's really unnecessary. Unless Copper is actually trying to sneak one past the unsuspecting visitor, why would it put stuff like this in its snow report. The Winter Park site, for example, simply gives the totals. In fact, WP has a useful little two week snowfall graph on the bottom of its report. Copper doesn't need to say stuff like this. I just cannot think this sort of thing is good for the ski industry. Would someone who doesn't ski here regularly and who has booked a pricey vacation be happy when they show up? I wouldn't take a set of new skis - if I had one - down most of the ungroomed slopes (despite all the snow that fell on the first weekend of January.) |
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#2
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Varanasi Benares wrote: (Though the Copper site itself says there has only been 17 inches this month.) I wonder whether Copper reads this group. Seems it changed the reported snow in the last hour or so. The monthly total is now 18 inches. |
#3
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Varanasi Benares wrote:
At the beginning of the season someone noted that Copper was advertising for someone (to paraphrase my recollection) write Copper's snow reports with enthusiasm. It apparently found the person. Here is yesterday's lead line (repeated again today): "Over 18 inches of the good stuff has graced the Copper slopes this month!" Sadly, Copper is not the only one doing this. I was sitting in the parking lot of the Safeway in Frisco on Saturday morning listening to KSMT. The Breck snow report came on. They were reporting 1" new in the last 24 hours, and 17" new in the last 15 days. I could not stop laughing. What kind of idiots do they take us for? 1" in 24 hours gets skiied off before 10am, much less 17" over the past 15 days. The marketing department at Copper has always tried to massage the snow reports to make it look better than it is. I still remember the conversation I had with one of the head marketeers when I introduced him to r.s. (this was before rsa and rsam). If I had posted that garbage, my credibility in these groups would have been destroyed, Copper would have been a laughing stock (though they seemt o be trying for that again), and I would have had to stop posting my CSDR's forever. I couldn't let that happen, so I proceeded to try and explain the reality of the world to someone who doesn't live in it. Marketing folks definitely have their own reality, and it doesn't coincide with what the rest of us experience. I hope they are reading this group, but I doubt it. And if they are, they will likely never admit to it. It is more likely someone complained on their forums. But the complaint may not be there anymore, as they tend to censor things. JH - if you are reading this, drop me a note. We would all be curious to know why you guys think we aren't so smart... ---------------------- Chester Bullock, Colorado Mountain Cams, Snow Conditions, Opinionated Reports http://www.black-diamond.com AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247 |
#4
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On 2004-01-20, Varanasi Benares penned:
This puffery is the kind of misleading stuff that - while perhaps technically true - requires one to pay so much attention that it seems more like dealing with a used car dealer rather than a resort. I agree, but at the same time, I think a person would have to be ... well, let's be nice and call it naive .... to not read between the lines. They're in the business of making money. They do this by enticing people to their lifts. If the only thing they can think of to brag about is seasonal snow accumulation, there's no new snow. If they skip talk of snow and instead talk about their great restaurants, shopping, etc, there's no new snow. If they don't explicitly state that there's been new snow in the last day or two, I guarantee that there has been no new snow. weather.com recognizes a lot of ski resorts by name. Their 10-day forecast is useful, although they rate resorts by weather "comfort level" (sunshine and warmth) rather than by snow quantity. -- monique |
#5
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:47:23 CST, "Monique Y. Herman"
wrote: I agree, but at the same time, I think a person would have to be ... well, let's be nice and call it naive .... to not read between the lines. They're in the business of making money. They do this by enticing people to their lifts. Of course. However they could say something like "sparse cover with rocks, hardpack, 70 inches of snow since Sept. 15, free tallboys after every run" and still expect a good crowd. I know I'd think about showing up. I think Chester is demanding creativity with integrity and a worldwide snow reporting standard. Its not too much to ask for is it? Then again, I enjoy reading a good snow report when it snows. It pumps you up. I believe that Chester wants them to stop crying wolf about snow. When it snows and its good say so. The marketers could use promotions like free beer, hooters girls, on site caucus coverage, etc., to lure skiers to the resort rather than spin doctoring. nate |
#6
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uglymoney wrote:
Of course. However they could say something like "sparse cover with rocks, hardpack, 70 inches of snow since Sept. 15, free tallboys after every run" and still expect a good crowd. I know I'd think about showing up. That is one snow report I would love to see, but I don't think it will happen. I think Chester is demanding creativity with integrity and a worldwide snow reporting standard. Its not too much to ask for is it? Then again, I enjoy reading a good snow report when it snows. It pumps you up. Integrity is the key here. To most marketeers this is a foreign word. I believe that Chester wants them to stop crying wolf about snow. When it snows and its good say so. The marketers could use promotions like free beer, hooters girls, on site caucus coverage, etc., to lure skiers to the resort rather than spin doctoring. I just want straight up honesty. The other things cost them money. There is a hard cost associated with free beer (although you could likely get a brewer to throw in some free beer for the free marketing exposure). Not being honest has got to be costing them money. Maybe not today. But in the long run people are going to step up and say "God, I'll never go there again. They lie about their conditions." Marketeers don't seem to understand that the world is changing. The Internet is bringing about a huge change in how people get their information. I can quickly publish a report from the guy who sits across the aisle from me saying how bad Copper was this past Sunday. Do you think that will weigh more than the "official" report from the mountain? Hell yes it will. OK, time to go home, getting off the soap box. ---------------------- Chester 'Tis a brave man who wears the kilt in January. |
#7
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Chester Bullock wrote:
Snip interesting comments about Copper Mtn My fav was an e-mail I got from them Jan 8th: Hello Samuel, How's this for a public display of affection? Twenty great ways for us to show our true appreciation for Copper Season Pass holders. Twenty great ways for you to show your appreciation for the place you love. And if that's not enough, we just got two feet of new snow! The conditions are incredible and these deals are too. So get up here, you'll be glad you did. Thats all I got. What are the "twenty great ways"? I have a 4 pack, not a season pass. The e-mail was in html, and god only knows what they did to make sure I DIDN'T get the entire message. Hey ****heads, how about plain test. I bet someone is "earning" an income off generating this useless e-mail. Sam "Still waiting for the real Ullr to cover up the rocks" Seiber |
#8
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On 2004-01-20, Sam Seiber penned:
Chester Bullock wrote: Snip interesting comments about Copper Mtn My fav was an e-mail I got from them Jan 8th: Hello Samuel, How's this for a public display of affection? Twenty great ways for us to show our true appreciation for Copper Season Pass holders. Twenty great ways for you to show your appreciation for the place you love. And if that's not enough, we just got two feet of new snow! The conditions are incredible and these deals are too. So get up here, you'll be glad you did. Thats all I got. What are the "twenty great ways"? I have a 4 pack, not a season pass. The e-mail was in html, and god only knows what they did to make sure I DIDN'T get the entire message. Hey ****heads, how about plain test. I bet someone is "earning" an income off generating this useless e-mail. Sam "Still waiting for the real Ullr to cover up the rocks" Seiber I would also like plain text, and have complained to them. I use mutt -- changed the content-type to plain text and fished out the urls. Some pretty good deals, actually. The one in particular that caught my eye was a $25 adv/intermediate lesson. -- monique |
#9
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Chester Bullock wrote:
uglymoney wrote: Of course. However they could say something like "sparse cover with rocks, hardpack, 70 inches of snow since Sept. 15, free tallboys after every run" and still expect a good crowd. I know I'd think about showing up. That is one snow report I would love to see, but I don't think it will happen. Just like there are very few CO ski areas that will admit to HP (Hard pack) conditions. Winter Park, Eldora & Telluride reported such conditions in this mornings Rocky Mtn News (print edition). Seems to me, I never see that from the other areas. I understand Keystone this weekend had HP, but reported PP. Hey kids, if the snow report is just showing PP, they really mean HP. Sam |
#10
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Chester Bullock wrote:
The marketing department at Copper ... They have a marketing department? I figured otherwise with their slogan "Where the skiers ski and the boarders ride". I bet it took someone over a minute to come up with that. Maybe we should have a "lamest ski area slogan" contest. Anyone have another entry? Mike... -- Littleton, Colorado (reply to msaemisch at yahoo dot com) See my ski photography at: http://PowderDay.us Carpe powder-diem |
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