"Your Responsibility Code" Interpretation...Ugh

On Jan 7, 1:43*pm, Walt wrote:
wrote:
I'm a level III snowboard and level II alpine instructor and was
recently presented with an interesting scenario and asked to give an
opinion regarding fault.

It depends on what you mean by "fault". *If you're just going by the
skier's code, Skier 2 broke the code while Skier 1 did not. *That means
that skier 2 bears some of the blame, but it doesn't absolve skier 1
from all responsibility.

Merely following the skiers code is not enough.

Exactly. Here are a few more from my code:

4) If you are going to make a line change, look up the hill to make
sure that:
a. an out of control dumbass isn't heading down that same line
while heading for the trees or lift pole, or
b. a good skier that just happens to be going faster than you isn't
about to pass you in that line
5) Helmets are a good idea - and they are warm
6) Goggles provide better protection than glasses
7) Tuned skies just work better
8) Drinking and skiing is way stupid
9) Skiing during the weekdays is better than the weekends
10) On the weekends until about 2:30 pm, avoid American Eagle and
American Flyer at all costs
11) Just because it's hard and icy doesn't mean it's bad (I'm talking
about snow)
12) Just because it's white and slippery doesn't mean it's soft
(again, snow)
13) On the weekends, get there early, ski hard and leave early
14) All skis and gear bags are always ready to go
15) Pack a lunch

There are many others...

The "Code" is far too general.
--
Marty

On Jan 7, 1:48*pm, Richard Henry wrote:
On Jan 7, 12:43*pm, Walt wrote:





wrote:
I'm a level III snowboard and level II alpine instructor and was
recently presented with an interesting scenario and asked to give an
opinion regarding fault.

It depends on what you mean by "fault". *If you're just going by the
skier's code, Skier 2 broke the code while Skier 1 did not. *That means
that skier 2 bears some of the blame, but it doesn't absolve skier 1
from all responsibility.

Merely following the skiers code is not enough. *For instance, it
doesn't say anything about, say, skiing in a suit made of broken glass
or with a ferret in your trousers, or any number of other stupid
dangerous things you might do. *Such as making a hard left turn into the
path of an oncoming skier.

Were this to go to court, I'd put the blame roughly 60-40.

//Walt

Th skier's code is written such that all skiers are responsiblde to
avoid and protect what is in front of them. *It is too much to ask for
skier in motion and in control to look in all directions, including
uphill, before making any maneuver.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

See, this is what I'm talking about. Looking up hill when making a
lane change is a SIMPLE skill that ALL skiers should practice. It
would have worked to avoid the situation described by the OP. The
fact is, there are so many freakin' newbs out there and the "Code" is
written for them. Maybe you need one of them little bicycle helmet
mirrors on your ski helmet or mounted to your ski poles. You don't
make lane changes in your car without looking - do you? I make a
point to be aware of everything going on a crowded hill. I ask the
same of my daughters. My oldest would love to listen to her mp3
player while skiing - I don't allow it. She needs to be aware -
sight, sound, feel. It's all got to be there all the time.
--
Marty

On Jan 7, 11:57*am, wrote:
Hey all,

I'm a level III snowboard and level II alpine instructor and was
recently presented with an interesting scenario and asked to give an
opinion regarding fault. Here is the scenario:

Jeremy, here is the entire code:

National Ski Patrol Responsibility Code

- Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or
objects.
- People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility
to avoid them.
- You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible
from above.
- Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and
yield to others.
- Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
- Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and
out of closed areas.
- Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to
load, ride and unload safely.

Notice that they are not numbered. But, lets assume 1 through 7.

Look at #4:

- Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and
yield to others.

The "Code" is better than I thought.

To me, trail is the same as line. #1 is at fault.
--
Marty

On Jan 7, 11:57*am, wrote:
Hey all,

snip...

Here is another version that is numbered:

http://www.nsc.org/mem/youth/ski/nsaa4.htm

4. Whenever starting downhill or merging, look uphill and yield.

Merging from where to where? Merging trails or merging lanes? I say
they are the same.

So, yea, the code requires you to look uphill and yield while skiing.
--
Marty

Marty wrote:

Look at #4:

- Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and
yield to others.

The "Code" is better than I thought.

To me, trail is the same as line. #1 is at fault.

I think you'll find that you're in the minority with that interpretation.

//Walt

On Jan 7, 2:31*pm, Marty wrote:

Look at #4:

- Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and
yield to others.

The "Code" is better than I thought.

To me, trail is the same as line. *#1 is at fault.

I disagree.

IF someone's passing someone else, the onus is on them to complete the
manouvre safely.

I think too many snow users have a very deficient understanding of the word
"control" though.

--
ant
Don't try to email me!
I'm using the latest spammer/scammer's
email addy.

On Jan 7, 4:24 pm, "ant" wrote:
IF someone's passing someone else, the onus is on them to complete the
manouvre safely.

I think too many snow users have a very deficient understanding of the word
"control" though.


How on Earth does any ski resort get insured ? All this stuff is so
ambiguous and subjective. I guess insane bills is the answer.

Walt wrote:
Marty wrote:

Look at #4:

- Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and
yield to others.

The "Code" is better than I thought.

To me, trail is the same as line. #1 is at fault.

I think you'll find that you're in the minority with that
interpretation.

My oath! And it's scary that there are people on the hill who can read those
very clear rules, and from them say that skiier 1 was at fault!

Person uphill MUST avoid the person downhill/ahead of them. The overtaker
MUST avoid the person they are overtaking. The skiier MUST be in control to
be able to stop or avoid hitting things/people.

trail and line are totally different. Once you start getting into
definitions of line, you hit so many problems. For instance, boarders and
skiiers see "line" totally differently. And who is to say a line is a line?
A beginner carefully turning is quite different from a racer, or an
intermediate.

--
ant
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I'm using the latest spammer/scammer's
email addy.

Marty wrote:

So, yea, the code requires you to look uphill and yield while skiing.

What utter crap.

--
ant
Don't try to email me!
I'm using the latest spammer/scammer's
email addy.