Boots for flat feet, low instep

Perhaps you can help ....

I evidently have a very low instep, flat and narrow feet. I'm looking
for a not-quite racing boot - I'm a former high school and college
racer and have been skiing my whole life - I consider myself an expert
skier, but I'm getting older and want a little more comfort that I have
in my Tecnica TNS boots that I've had for about 15-20 years or so.

I've been to a couple of boot fitters (MasterFit U folks and others)
and tried on a number of stock models to get started with
modifications. The boot that was the most comfortable was the Salomon
Falcon 10 - well regarded by the magazines, and I skied the old Salomon
rear entry boots before my Tecnica's. The best thing about the old
Salomons was the cable system that could lock your heel in. They were
really uncomfortable, but nothing fit me better at the time.

At this point, I've been professionally fit (in a 27.5), and skied
about 5 days in the new boots. Seems like they are too large already -
my ski tips can shake several inches without any pressure applied to
the boot unless I crank them down and cut off my circulation. Then I
have the control I want, but I'm pretty uncomfortable. Back to square
one ...

Questions:
1. Should I get the same boot, smaller size? I tried on a 26.5 in the
past and my toes were initially crunched at the end. That said, in the
27.5, my toes barely touch the ends when standing, and come away with
plenty of room when in a turn.

2. Should I get a wider boot and crank them down more? I've noticed
that cranking down the Falcon make the boot narrower, as well as
decreasing some of the room over the instep. That can hurt. Should I go
wider (100mm last instead of 98mm) and be a little more comfortable
when tightening?

3. Should I just add padding? Tongue pads, insoles under the custom
inner sole can take up some room.

Any help/advice appreciated!

Buckaroo

"Buckaroo" No Address wrote in message
...
Perhaps you can help ....

I evidently have a very low instep, flat and narrow feet. I'm looking for
a not-quite racing boot - I'm a former high school and college racer and
have been skiing my whole life - I consider myself an expert skier, but
I'm getting older and want a little more comfort that I have in my Tecnica
TNS boots that I've had for about 15-20 years or so.

I've been to a couple of boot fitters (MasterFit U folks and others) and
tried on a number of stock models to get started with modifications. The
boot that was the most comfortable was the Salomon Falcon 10 - well
regarded by the magazines, and I skied the old Salomon rear entry boots
before my Tecnica's. The best thing about the old Salomons was the cable
system that could lock your heel in. They were really uncomfortable, but
nothing fit me better at the time.

At this point, I've been professionally fit (in a 27.5), and skied about 5
days in the new boots. Seems like they are too large already - my ski tips
can shake several inches without any pressure applied to the boot unless I
crank them down and cut off my circulation. Then I have the control I
want, but I'm pretty uncomfortable. Back to square one ...

Questions:
1. Should I get the same boot, smaller size? I tried on a 26.5 in the past
and my toes were initially crunched at the end. That said, in the 27.5, my
toes barely touch the ends when standing, and come away with plenty of
room when in a turn.

2. Should I get a wider boot and crank them down more? I've noticed that
cranking down the Falcon make the boot narrower, as well as decreasing
some of the room over the instep. That can hurt. Should I go wider (100mm
last instead of 98mm) and be a little more comfortable when tightening?

3. Should I just add padding? Tongue pads, insoles under the custom inner
sole can take up some room.

Any help/advice appreciated!

Buckaroo

I also have narrow and almost flat feet. I bought a Lange Comp 100 and they
fit me well. I didn't need any boot work like I did on my last boot
SanMarco's. I like the Lange they are very comfortable, well padded and
warm. I was looking for the Lange Freestyle 100 but couldn't find them.
Lange is made for a narrower foot so you might be pleased with them. I
would also recommend getting orthotics or a good foot bed. I have been
using Phase 4 orthotics and at $25 per pair you can't go wrong, they are
just lie the ones that cost over $300 from a foot doctor or any place that
requires you to go in and get your foot measured. I went that way several
years ago and found that these were identical to the $300 orthotics.

Well good luck in your boot search and happy skiing...

JQ
Dancing on the edge

I tried on 2 Langes, 3 Nordicas, 2 Tecnicas, 4 Salomons, and a Head. I
really have a 10.5 C foot, and had a custom orthotic made after plenty
of measuring ....

Buckaroo


On 2008-01-12 23:47:48 -0500, Dan said:

On 1/11/08 9:10 PM, Buckaroo wrote:
Perhaps you can help ....

I evidently have a very low instep, flat and narrow feet. I'm looking
for a not-quite racing boot - I'm a former high school and college
racer and have been skiing my whole life - I consider myself an expert
skier, but I'm getting older and want a little more comfort that I have
in my Tecnica TNS boots that I've had for about 15-20 years or so.

I've been to a couple of boot fitters (MasterFit U folks and others)
and tried on a number of stock models to get started with
modifications. The boot that was the most comfortable was the Salomon
Falcon 10 - well regarded by the magazines, and I skied the old Salomon
rear entry boots before my Tecnica's. The best thing about the old
Salomons was the cable system that could lock your heel in. They were
really uncomfortable, but nothing fit me better at the time.

At this point, I've been professionally fit (in a 27.5), and skied
about 5 days in the new boots. Seems like they are too large already -
my ski tips can shake several inches without any pressure applied to
the boot unless I crank them down and cut off my circulation. Then I
have the control I want, but I'm pretty uncomfortable. Back to square
one ...

Questions:
1. Should I get the same boot, smaller size? I tried on a 26.5 in the
past and my toes were initially crunched at the end. That said, in the
27.5, my toes barely touch the ends when standing, and come away with
plenty of room when in a turn.

2. Should I get a wider boot and crank them down more? I've noticed
that cranking down the Falcon make the boot narrower, as well as
decreasing some of the room over the instep. That can hurt. Should I go
wider (100mm last instead of 98mm) and be a little more comfortable
when tightening?

3. Should I just add padding? Tongue pads, insoles under the custom
inner sole can take up some room.

Any help/advice appreciated!

Buckaroo


How many boots did you try on? When I bought my last pair I tried 15
models to find the best fit. Thankfully my foot is not problematic
that much besides a high arch. Just like shoes if the the boot is
uncomfortable right away move on. Adding padding is not going to help
for major needs as the foot needs to be guaranteed stable. Also, now
that you're older, your feet might complain more so if you can consult
with a podiatrist who is a skier then go that way to get a custom liner.

For DYI: see http://www.skinetsports.com/html/ask...tml#bootNarrow

"Have a really narrow foot?
Not all, but most boot manufacturers consider the average American
woman’s foot to be a "B" width and man’s a "D" width. One of the most
difficult issues to address is the foot with a low instep and arch
coupled with a narrow foot. Women "A" and Men "B" or less. The best
solution is to find the closest fitting shell possible, replace the
stock liner with a foam or silicone liner and an aggressive footbed or
orthotic."

Good luck!
Dan

"Buckaroo" No Address wrote in message
...
I tried on 2 Langes, 3 Nordicas, 2 Tecnicas, 4 Salomons, and a Head. I
really have a 10.5 C foot, and had a custom orthotic made after plenty of
measuring ....

Buckaroo

Your foot seems very much like mine. Try the Lange Freestyle or Comp series
size 28.5 or 29, they fitted much better than the other Lange's that I
tried. Make sure you put the orthotics in and wear ski socks when you try
on the boots. All the Salomons that I tried were a little too wide, I
liked the padding in their boots though, the others were way too wide.

JQ
Dancing on the edge



On 2008-01-12 23:47:48 -0500, Dan said:

On 1/11/08 9:10 PM, Buckaroo wrote:
Perhaps you can help ....

I evidently have a very low instep, flat and narrow feet. I'm looking
for a not-quite racing boot - I'm a former high school and college racer
and have been skiing my whole life - I consider myself an expert skier,
but I'm getting older and want a little more comfort that I have in my
Tecnica TNS boots that I've had for about 15-20 years or so.

I've been to a couple of boot fitters (MasterFit U folks and others) and
tried on a number of stock models to get started with modifications. The
boot that was the most comfortable was the Salomon Falcon 10 - well
regarded by the magazines, and I skied the old Salomon rear entry boots
before my Tecnica's. The best thing about the old Salomons was the cable
system that could lock your heel in. They were really uncomfortable, but
nothing fit me better at the time.

At this point, I've been professionally fit (in a 27.5), and skied about
5 days in the new boots. Seems like they are too large already - my ski
tips can shake several inches without any pressure applied to the boot
unless I crank them down and cut off my circulation. Then I have the
control I want, but I'm pretty uncomfortable. Back to square one ...

Questions:
1. Should I get the same boot, smaller size? I tried on a 26.5 in the
past and my toes were initially crunched at the end. That said, in the
27.5, my toes barely touch the ends when standing, and come away with
plenty of room when in a turn.

2. Should I get a wider boot and crank them down more? I've noticed that
cranking down the Falcon make the boot narrower, as well as decreasing
some of the room over the instep. That can hurt. Should I go wider
(100mm last instead of 98mm) and be a little more comfortable when
tightening?

3. Should I just add padding? Tongue pads, insoles under the custom
inner sole can take up some room.

Any help/advice appreciated!

Buckaroo


How many boots did you try on? When I bought my last pair I tried 15
models to find the best fit. Thankfully my foot is not problematic that
much besides a high arch. Just like shoes if the the boot is
uncomfortable right away move on. Adding padding is not going to help
for major needs as the foot needs to be guaranteed stable. Also, now
that you're older, your feet might complain more so if you can consult
with a podiatrist who is a skier then go that way to get a custom liner.

For DYI: see
http://www.skinetsports.com/html/ask...tml#bootNarrow

"Have a really narrow foot?
Not all, but most boot manufacturers consider the average American woman's
foot to be a "B" width and man's a "D" width. One of the most difficult
issues to address is the foot with a low instep and arch coupled with a
narrow foot. Women "A" and Men "B" or less. The best solution is to find
the closest fitting shell possible, replace the stock liner with a foam
or silicone liner and an aggressive footbed or orthotic."

Good luck!
Dan

Buckaroo wrote:

I've been to a couple of boot fitters (MasterFit U folks and others)

Don't get dazzled by the MasterFit thing. Some are good, some are salesmen.

and tried on a number of stock models to get started with
modifications. The boot that was the most comfortable was the Salomon
Falcon 10 - well regarded by the magazines, and I skied the old
Salomon rear entry boots before my Tecnica's. The best thing about
the old Salomons was the cable system that could lock your heel in.
They were really uncomfortable, but nothing fit me better at the time.

The cable didn't really "lock" your heel in. It just pressed down from
above. A better way is to get a boot with a shell that approximates the
shape (and size) of your heel.

You really want to find a boot with a shell that fits you as well as
possible. Mods like foamed liners etc are just gimicks to get a boot that
doesn't fit, to fit. It'll only fit for a while and then all the problems
will come back. I found my boots by happening on a US ski magazine boot
"test" that outlined the foot shape each boot was made for. worked a treat,
I found the boots I was after on display, put them on, and they fit, right
off the shelf.

I had them widened because when teaching, you tended to stand about more and
I needed them a smidge wider. That was it. For normal skiing, they'd have
not needed mods.

At this point, I've been professionally fit (in a 27.5),

So you're a men's US shoe size 9?

and skied
about 5 days in the new boots. Seems like they are too large already -
my ski tips can shake several inches without any pressure applied to
the boot unless I crank them down and cut off my circulation. Then I
have the control I want, but I'm pretty uncomfortable. Back to square
one ...

I hate to tell you this, but you should be able to ski without mishap
(albeit on groomers) with your boots completely undone. This ensures you are
skiing by being right on top of your feet, rather than hanging off your
boots. Skiing through the soles of your feet, not through the cuffs.

If your feet are sliding around in the boots, you'll be more likely to seek
strength by leaning back, and that'll have the ski tips wobbling about.

(tale of pain snipped)

Feet, and boots, come in all sizes *and shapes*. If the boot is the wrong
shape for your foot, the size changes won't really help much. That said,
skiing in a too-big boot is very common with skiiers and causes all kinds of
problems. You need to go on the hunt for a shell that is made for your shape
foot/ankle/leg. If you're stuck with the boots you got, you can fix it in
the short term with foamed inners. Pricey, but it's a good fix for a bad
boot. If you need to get foams done with a boot you're buying in a shop,
leave and find another shop! The boot doesn't fit.

The liners (stock standard ones) in my boots are falling apart, but I just
couldn't see a reason to change them, so didn't. Might one day, maybe. The
hard shells fit, and the liners are just there for comfort and to help with
the moving bits.

--
ant
Don't try to email me!
I'm using the latest spammer/scammer's
email addy.

Just to throw a wrench into the works, a friend of mine just visited a
podiatrist after wearing new boots with a custom footbed for the first time. She
has lost all feeling from a toe and part of her foot due to a pinched nerve
apparently caused by the footbed pressing in too much at the wrong place. Never
had a problem with hed old cheap boots.

Actually, I'm a men's size 10.5 (US).

I'm going to try a 27.0 this weekend - same shell, thicker liner, and
see what happens.

If you know of a lower volume boot (Skiing magazine had a run down
earlier this year), that's one off from a racing boot, let me know. For
me, the problem is that a plug boot might fit me well, but they are
stiffer than I need at this point, and not at all comfortable.



On 2008-01-15 05:07:51 -0500, "ant" said:

Buckaroo wrote:

I've been to a couple of boot fitters (MasterFit U folks and others)

Don't get dazzled by the MasterFit thing. Some are good, some are salesmen.

and tried on a number of stock models to get started with
modifications. The boot that was the most comfortable was the Salomon
Falcon 10 - well regarded by the magazines, and I skied the old
Salomon rear entry boots before my Tecnica's. The best thing about
the old Salomons was the cable system that could lock your heel in.
They were really uncomfortable, but nothing fit me better at the time.

The cable didn't really "lock" your heel in. It just pressed down from
above. A better way is to get a boot with a shell that approximates the
shape (and size) of your heel.

You really want to find a boot with a shell that fits you as well as
possible. Mods like foamed liners etc are just gimicks to get a boot that
doesn't fit, to fit. It'll only fit for a while and then all the problems
will come back. I found my boots by happening on a US ski magazine boot
"test" that outlined the foot shape each boot was made for. worked a treat,
I found the boots I was after on display, put them on, and they fit, right
off the shelf.

I had them widened because when teaching, you tended to stand about more and
I needed them a smidge wider. That was it. For normal skiing, they'd have
not needed mods.

At this point, I've been professionally fit (in a 27.5),

So you're a men's US shoe size 9?

and skied
about 5 days in the new boots. Seems like they are too large already -
my ski tips can shake several inches without any pressure applied to
the boot unless I crank them down and cut off my circulation. Then I
have the control I want, but I'm pretty uncomfortable. Back to square
one ...

I hate to tell you this, but you should be able to ski without mishap
(albeit on groomers) with your boots completely undone. This ensures you are
skiing by being right on top of your feet, rather than hanging off your
boots. Skiing through the soles of your feet, not through the cuffs.

If your feet are sliding around in the boots, you'll be more likely to seek
strength by leaning back, and that'll have the ski tips wobbling about.

(tale of pain snipped)

Feet, and boots, come in all sizes *and shapes*. If the boot is the wrong
shape for your foot, the size changes won't really help much. That said,
skiing in a too-big boot is very common with skiiers and causes all kinds of
problems. You need to go on the hunt for a shell that is made for your shape
foot/ankle/leg. If you're stuck with the boots you got, you can fix it in
the short term with foamed inners. Pricey, but it's a good fix for a bad
boot. If you need to get foams done with a boot you're buying in a shop,
leave and find another shop! The boot doesn't fit.

The liners (stock standard ones) in my boots are falling apart, but I just
couldn't see a reason to change them, so didn't. Might one day, maybe. The
hard shells fit, and the liners are just there for comfort and to help with
the moving bits.

Buckaroo wrote:
Actually, I'm a men's size 10.5 (US).

I'm going to try a 27.0 this weekend - same shell, thicker liner, and
see what happens.

Bad idea to pad out boots - shell should fit the foot with minimal inner
boot thickness. Thick liners invariably crush out for sloppy fit after
just weeks. FWIW almost all ski boot companies try to get two sizes out
of each mold, stuffing padding in for the smaller size - what a skier
wants is to be the larger size in any given shell resulting in minimum
padding.

I cringe at your original statement: "The boot that was the most
comfortable..." You don't by ski boots by comfort in the store; you buy
boots by functional fit to your foot type and your skier type, and that
results in comfort when the boots are properly adjusted.

Anyway, if you used a good bootfitter the fit should be guaranteed -
just keep going in to have adjustments made until you're satisfied, or
even demand to start over in a different boot, or get your money back
and go to a real professional bootfitter. BTW, a real bootfitter would
be willing to tell a customer that none of the boots he carries will
foot your foot size; a really good bootfitter will carry boot lines that
fit the range of human feet, meaning you'll see some oddball boot lines
that fill in some size gaps and not just the usual suspects.

If you know of a lower volume boot

http://www.fulltiltskiboots.com/

Narrow close fitting boot. Cloned from the original Flexon molds...
(Secretly owned by K2 IIRC.)

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:07:51 +1100, "ant"
wrote:

I hate to tell you this, but you should be able to ski without mishap
(albeit on groomers) with your boots completely undone.

This is true. I ski with 2 of the 4 buckles undone completely (those
across the foot) all the time with no worries whatsoever.

Suzie
--
Suzieflame

Adieu alt.horror

Buckaroo wrote:

If you know of a lower volume boot (Skiing magazine had a run down
earlier this year), that's one off from a racing boot, let me know. For
me, the problem is that a plug boot might fit me well, but they are
stiffer than I need at this point, and not at all comfortable.

I have very narrow feet (AAA) and ski the Nordica Doberman Pro 130.
That's a very low volume boot. It's also a very stiff race boot (130
flex), but they have two steel bolts in the rear of the shell and you
can remove one or both to lower the flex considerably, down to about
90-100 flex or thereabouts. Something like that might be what you're
looking for.

Other boots may have a similar feature, or you can always get your
bootfitter to make strategic cuts in the shell to lower the flex. The
nice thing about the bolts is that adjusting the flex is a reversible
process.

//Walt