what percentile? race results

What percentile does my 50K marathon finish time put me in? I mean
percentile in the general population.

Onno Oerlemans recently offered an important goal:
I like feeling not just fit, but fitter than most.

That goal resonates with me. I do organized ski events because they offer
me public visible evidence that I'm in way better health and fitness than
most people.

So what sort of finish time (or placement) do I need in order to make what
percentile in the general population? ("64th percentile" means that my
result is better than 64% of the population -- but not better than 65%).

Here's my starting hypothesis: The 99th percentile result for the general
U.S. population in a 50K ski marathon would be:
DNF
I'm suggesting that 99% of the U.S. population could not finish a 50K ski
race (assuming they learned how to ski).

So just by finishing, I've made the 99th percentile.

All the rest of the race results: my ranking of 25/37 in my age group, or
losing 8 minutes because I didn't have the right flouro wax -- that's just
about 99.74th versus 99.78th percentile.

What percentile is enough for you?

Ken

99.9withadotoverit

Best, Peter

"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
...
What percentile does my 50K marathon finish time put me in? I mean
percentile in the general population.

Onno Oerlemans recently offered an important goal:
I like feeling not just fit, but fitter than most.


Wow, do I sound vain. Let me qualify this a bit by adding that a ski race is
a way of proving that your training actually amounts to something, that it
enables you to finish a long race. But a race is always a matter of
competition to a certain degree; otherwise we'd stick to skiing on our own
for indeterminate lengths of time and distance (which is mostly how I
train). So in entering a race we are never just racing against ourselves.
Ergo, competition is vanity, and when you do worse than you expect, it
hurts. I suspect none of us is truly happy just finishing a race...

Onno Oerlemans

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:02:20 -0500, "Onno Oerlemans"
wrote:


"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
...
What percentile does my 50K marathon finish time put me in? I mean
percentile in the general population.

Onno Oerlemans recently offered an important goal:
I like feeling not just fit, but fitter than most.


Wow, do I sound vain. Let me qualify this a bit by adding that a ski race is
a way of proving that your training actually amounts to something, that it
enables you to finish a long race. But a race is always a matter of
competition to a certain degree; otherwise we'd stick to skiing on our own
for indeterminate lengths of time and distance (which is mostly how I
train). So in entering a race we are never just racing against ourselves.
Ergo, competition is vanity, and when you do worse than you expect, it
hurts. I suspect none of us is truly happy just finishing a race...

Onno Oerlemans


In general I would say you're right *but* the first time I skied the
Birke, 55k seemed an incredible distance. Not ever being particularly
athletic I really doubted if I could do it. When I came off the
Powerline hills and heard the first, faint sound of the band in the
distance, I was so moved that I actually teared up. One of the peak
experiences of my life.
Sometimes, if we're lucky, just being there is enough.


g.c.

I agree with George. My first Gatineau 55 took me over 7 hours, and while I
was exhausted when I finished, I felt very, very good.


Tim
(I did pass a guy in the last 300 meters...)



on 18/2/04 15:17, George Cleveland wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:02:20 -0500, "Onno Oerlemans"
wrote:

....snip...
I suspect none of us is truly happy just finishing a race...

Onno Oerlemans


In general I would say you're right *but* the first time I skied the
Birke, 55k seemed an incredible distance. Not ever being particularly
athletic I really doubted if I could do it. When I came off the
Powerline hills and heard the first, faint sound of the band in the
distance, I was so moved that I actually teared up. One of the peak
experiences of my life.
Sometimes, if we're lucky, just being there is enough.


g.c.

In article ,
Ken Roberts wrote:
What percentile does my 50K marathon finish time put me in? I mean
percentile in the general population.

Onno Oerlemans recently offered an important goal:
I like feeling not just fit, but fitter than most.

That goal resonates with me. I do organized ski events because they offer
me public visible evidence that I'm in way better health and fitness than
most people.

Ahh, but although there is a corrolation between your place and
your fitness, I don't think it is that simple. Genetics comes
into play. I'm sure there are people more fit than you,
yet they are not as fast. Conversly, some people with really
good genes but are relatively out of shape may have been faster.

Waxing skills, technique and, proper eating just before/during
the race have nothing to do with fitness, but do have a relationship
with your time.

I just don't think you can get the 2 digits after the decimal
king of accuracy.

Of course it depends on how one defines "health and fitness"

Years ago, I'd take a 120 mile bike ride, stopping several times
along the way for a cigarette, then I'd smoke like a fish that
night. Was I in better shape than someone who couldn't cycle
half that distance?

Me? I don't really care about being fit or not. I like doing
things.

--

"It's a sad day for american capitalism when a man
can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park."
J. Moran

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:17:02 -0600, George Cleveland
wrote:

When I came off the
Powerline hills and heard the first, faint sound of the band in the
distance, I was so moved that I actually teared up. One of the peak
experiences of my life.
Sometimes, if we're lucky, just being there is enough.

That's very cool.

JT

I've always wondered this. I do worse (relatively) in a ski race than
I do in say, a running marathon. My contention is that skiing is a
narrower (and fitter) cross section of people than a running race is.
I have to remind myself that people who ski ( an equipment, technique,
and wax intensive sport) are pretty specialized and probably pretty
serious. Thus, I agree, you could do really well against the masses in
Grandma's, but come in last in your age group at a big ski race. Hard
to feel "good" about doing "poorly", but it helps to remind yourself
that ski racers are all pretty bad ass.

Hell yes we're fitter than 99.9 is what I'm trying to say.

what percentile? race resultsI personally know someone who has
literally finished _last_ in several races and second-to-last in others, but
keeps on doing them.

Three ski marathons in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine now offer
participating skiers a "Touring" option -- of having the official results
_not_ show their time or ranking. This year's Craftsbury VT registration
shows that 48% of the skiers chose the no-timing no-ranking option.

Which Canadian weekend event got more skiers this year? Keskinada Loppet
which forces ranking and timing -- or Canadian Ski Marathon which does not?

I've also read that some big-city dryland running marathons are having
problems because so many people are showing up with the intent of just
_walking_ the whole course.

Seems to be no shortage of people out there who don't care much about their
competitive ranking with other racers. Just not many who post to this
newsgroup.

Ken

Yes I think that's the big question: What group am I choosing to rank
myself in?

If I keep looking at my numerical finish ranking against other ski racers, I
stay in this "arms race" of money and time for skis and grinds and waxing,
and this anti-social protection of my time and travel and emotional energy
for optimal training workouts.

Eric Shmo Chandler wrote
My contention is that skiing is a narrower (and fitter)
cross section of people than a running race is.

And a hilly 50K Skate ski race has a narrower cross-section -- a tougher
"grading curve" -- than a hilly 50K Classic race, or a flat 50K race, or a
hilly 25K Skate race.

Part of it is that it's easier to learn and execute skiing Classic slowly,
to slog through the whole hilly course somehow. Part is that more athletic
skiers feel it's just more fun to skate. So there's usually some
self-selection skewing at both ends of the "curve" -- and it can leave us
"feeling bad" when looking at the numerical results list after a hilly 50K
Freestyle race.

But I can still compete against the other racers, but _select_ them in a
different way that makes me feel better:
If I refuse to think about my numerical finish ranking. Maybe next year I
won't even _look_ at the official results list (sure, believe it).

Instead just focus on the racers I can _see_ out there skiing with me. I
can select that group by starting further back and starting slower. Maybe
next year I'll deliberately just _stand_ there for a minute while everybody
else charges off.

Tim Dudley wrote
I did pass a guy in the last 300 meters...

The slower I start, the more people available for me to have fun passing
later.

Ken