Waxless

Hi all...does anyone have any info on the pros/cons of waxless skis?
I am interested in info on skis for both (racing) kids and adults. On
a related note, what would be a good selection of skis that can
accomodate most conditions? Both skating/classic and around the
Barrie, ON, Canada area...thanks!

Bill

On Dec 31, 12:59*pm, gr wrote:
IronDocBill wrote:
Hi all...does anyone have any info on the pros/cons of waxless skis?
I am interested in info on skis for both (racing) kids and adults. *On
a related note, what would be a good selection of skis that can
accomodate most conditions? *Both skating/classic and around the
Barrie, ON, Canada area...thanks!

Bill

The racing guys don't like them at all, mostly because they are slower.
Pro and con of waxless (ie: fishscale) skis
Pros:
-don't have to mess with getting the right grip wax
-don't have to spend time on grip wax application (you can be skiing
when others are still trying to get it right!)
-especially good for problem snow like warm or wet when klister is
needed on waxable.
-still grip even in changing conditions (like ski from sun to shaded snow)

Con;
-glide is worse
-noisier on most snow conditions, especially icy, or over tree roots.
-snootier skiers think less of you and your equipment (even the snooty
ones will sometime use them for training though)
-can make you lazy and create the habit of kicking incorrectly (because
the grip will work even if the ski was sliding a bit)

Pro: You will spend less time waxing than your friends (just glide wax
tips & tails)

Con: You will get cold standing around waiting for your friends to
finish grip (kick) waxing their skis.

IronDocBill wrote:
Hi all...does anyone have any info on the pros/cons of waxless skis?
I am interested in info on skis for both (racing) kids and adults. On
a related note, what would be a good selection of skis that can
accomodate most conditions? Both skating/classic and around the
Barrie, ON, Canada area...thanks!

Bill


I suggest that you buy waxable skis. If you want convenience, use Start
Grip Tape, which will give better performance than the waxless bases.
Then, if you want to do higher performance grip waxing later, you will
have appropriate skis. If you mean by "both skating/classic," a single
pair of skis, most would recommend against such combi skis as an
unsatisfactory compromise. That said, I have a pair of combis that I
use exclusively and happily for classic only. I could probably do
better with strictly classic skis. For skating, I have skating skis.

Leland

On Jan 2, 7:33*am, Leland Yee wrote:
IronDocBill wrote:
Hi all...does anyone have any info on the pros/cons of waxless skis?
I am interested in info on skis for both (racing) kids and adults. *On
a related note, what would be a good selection of skis that can
accomodate most conditions? *Both skating/classic and around the
Barrie, ON, Canada area...thanks!

Bill

I suggest that you buy waxable skis. *If you want convenience, use Start
Grip Tape, which will give better performance than the waxless bases.
Then, if you want to do higher performance grip waxing later, you will
have appropriate skis. *If you mean by "both skating/classic," a single
pair of skis, most would recommend against such combi skis as an
unsatisfactory compromise. *That said, I have a pair of combis that I
use exclusively and happily for classic only. *I could probably do
better with strictly classic skis. For skating, I have skating skis.

Leland

Question Re Grip Tape. Start claims that Grip Tape works up to +5C.
How well does it work in the plus-minus zero degree (Celcius) range?
Does Grip Tape work only on fine-grained snow (e.g. hard wax) or does
it also work under klister condition of the reported temperature
range?

Any commnents/experience on Gear West's suggestion to place short
sections (e.g. 1-inch) of Grip Tape over Blue Extra ironed in?

Grip tape (Rex and Start) has a hard time on ice, but my recollection is
Start doesn't do so badly (I found Start far superior in general). I
wouldn't count on a full 5C (40 +F). In warm, softened conditions the
flex of the ski is far more important, whether with klister or grip
tape.

Tricks with grip tape depend on your goals. Most of those suggestions
come from racers looking for some way to speed up grip tape's glide,
while getting its kicking advantages. If that's not your
obsession, grip tape is best for that pair of skis to use when hard
waxing is too much of a bother or too difficult.

wrote:

Question Re Grip Tape. Start claims that Grip Tape works up to +5C.
How well does it work in the plus-minus zero degree (Celcius) range?
Does Grip Tape work only on fine-grained snow (e.g. hard wax) or does
it also work under klister condition of the reported temperature
range?

Any commnents/experience on Gear West's suggestion to place short
sections (e.g. 1-inch) of Grip Tape over Blue Extra ironed in?

Waxless is for stride and glide Not for skating.
The word waxless is a misnomer, the designers meant No Grip Wax, and
the name stuck.
The basic element for our type of skiing is the glide and as our
friend said you must put glide wax before
and behind the grip pattern area. Ignorant ski sellers fail to tell
their customers about this in their rush
to make a sale.
When I was younger and lighter I used to race on a pair of Dynastar
waxless skis and as I got older and
heavier our local skitechie used to gently grind away at the
fishscales at the edge of the grip pattern which
were shown to be dragging when I stood on a long worktop (when he had
the time out of season).

On Jan 2, 8:16*pm, gr wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 2, 7:33 am, Leland Yee wrote:
IronDocBill wrote:
Hi all...does anyone have any info on the pros/cons of waxless skis?
I am interested in info on skis for both (racing) kids and adults. *On
a related note, what would be a good selection of skis that can
accomodate most conditions? *Both skating/classic and around the
Barrie, ON, Canada area...thanks!
Bill
I suggest that you buy waxable skis. *If you want convenience, use Start
Grip Tape, which will give better performance than the waxless bases.
Then, if you want to do higher performance grip waxing later, you will
have appropriate skis. *If you mean by "both skating/classic," a single
pair of skis, most would recommend against such combi skis as an
unsatisfactory compromise. *That said, I have a pair of combis that I
use exclusively and happily for classic only. *I could probably do
better with strictly classic skis. For skating, I have skating skis.

Leland

Question Re Grip Tape. *Start claims that Grip Tape works up to +5C.
How well does it work in the plus-minus zero degree (Celcius) range?
Does Grip Tape work only on fine-grained snow (e.g. hard wax) or does
it also work under klister condition of the reported temperature
range?

Any commnents/experience on Gear West's suggestion to place short
sections (e.g. 1-inch) of Grip Tape over Blue Extra ironed in?

I think it works quite *nicely in the klister range (warm), and a bit
less as it gets to the very cold end. Haven't tried it in the extreme
cold though.
gr- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

gr-
When you sai "it works quite nicely..." I am assuming that you are
refering to Grip Tape. What happens at the "very cold end"? Does the
Grip Tape ice in very cold granular?

Originally Posted by

Waxless is for stride and glide Not for skating.

That view (presented as "fact") is being challenged more and more the past years. Just days ago I read this report from a skier who's got hundreds of hours on his rock skate skis (using them exclusively), and not having touched the base in any way. Reporting that the glide is still on par with his average glide wax job. Just, holding forever. Even without cleaning the base.

From all the reading I've done on the subject, an image is composing that wax does less for glide than it's claiming. And that there's more to go wrong with conditions-specific wax than true non-waxed can suffer, especially when usage goes beyond a few kms after the last wax application.
In the future, a good grind may proove to do more than a good wax. First for Volkslaefe, then distance, and then maybe some day sprints.

Our ski bases are not from wood anymore, it seems the added value for wax is diminishing.

I just bought some wider traditional style but waxless classic skis. Fisher Splitkeins, really affordable for what they are. Haven't gotten to try them, so can't offer comments on that.

How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?



Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:


;118782 Wrote:
Waxless is for stride and glide Not for skating.

That view (presented as "fact") is being challenged more and more the
past years. Just days ago I read this report from a skier who's got
hundreds of hours on his rock skate skis (using them exclusively), and
not having touched the base in any way. Reporting that the glide is
still on par with his average glide wax job. Just, holding forever.
Even without cleaning the base.

From all the reading I've done on the subject, an image is composing
that wax does less for glide than it's claiming. And that there's more
to go wrong with conditions-specific wax than true non-waxed can
suffer, especially when usage goes beyond a few kms after the last wax
application.
In the future, a good grind may proove to do more than a good wax.
First for Volkslaefe, then distance, and then maybe some day sprints.

Our ski bases are not from wood anymore, it seems the added value for
wax is diminishing.

I just bought some wider traditional style but waxless classic skis.
Fisher Splitkeins, really affordable for what they are. Haven't gotten
to try them, so can't offer comments on that.




--
Jan Gerrit Klok

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:53:22 -0600, wrote:

How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?

If I admit I laughed at that, does that make me obnoxious? I did
laugh.

JFT