Ski area stasis

I sorted out a box of old ski area maps this week and it occurred to
me that the California resorts I have visited have not done much in
the last 15 years. There is no difference at Snow Summit, only a
couple of lift upgrades at Bear Mountain, and Mammoth has actually
lost lifts (although probably upgraded the uphill capacity).

Chairs 18 (a triple parallel to and slightly above Chair 2) and 19 (a
double uphill and to the right of the Main Lodge) at Mammoth used to
be favorites of mine because they were usually not crowded (and 18 had
a singles line when it was), but it looks like they were overwhelmed
by the Intrawest upgrade process.

Growing up in Vermont and New Hampshire in the 50's and 60's, I came
to expect ski areas to add a lift or two and some new runs every
year. I experienced more of the same out west after I arrived at
Mammoth the first time in 1970. I don't think that is happening
anymore.

Richard Henry wrote:
I sorted out a box of old ski area maps this week and it occurred to
me that the California resorts I have visited have not done much in
the last 15 years. There is no difference at Snow Summit, only a
couple of lift upgrades at Bear Mountain, and Mammoth has actually
lost lifts (although probably upgraded the uphill capacity).

Chairs 18 (a triple parallel to and slightly above Chair 2) and 19 (a
double uphill and to the right of the Main Lodge) at Mammoth used to
be favorites of mine because they were usually not crowded (and 18 had
a singles line when it was), but it looks like they were overwhelmed
by the Intrawest upgrade process.

Growing up in Vermont and New Hampshire in the 50's and 60's, I came
to expect ski areas to add a lift or two and some new runs every
year. I experienced more of the same out west after I arrived at
Mammoth the first time in 1970. I don't think that is happening
anymore.


There is some continued growth such as Jackson gore in Vt but I think
most of the upgrades are starting to be lodging and village type
upgrades. The lodging that went up at Mt Snow when ASC was there has
proved that cheap construction does not work. The older lodging at Okemo
is getting near its end of days and the jackson gore side is a big jump
in quality. I think more also is being spent on cost reductions programs
and going green in a effort to stay in business.

On Dec 4, 7:38*am, down_hill wrote:
Richard Henry wrote:
I sorted out a box of old ski area maps this week and it occurred to
me that the California resorts I have visited have not done much in
the last 15 years. *There is no difference at Snow Summit, only a
couple of lift upgrades at Bear Mountain, and Mammoth has actually
lost lifts (although probably upgraded the uphill capacity).

Chairs 18 (a triple parallel to and slightly above Chair 2) and 19 (a
double uphill and to the right of the Main Lodge) at Mammoth used to
be favorites of mine because they were usually not crowded (and 18 had
a singles line when it was), but it looks like they were overwhelmed
by the Intrawest upgrade process.

Growing up in Vermont and New Hampshire in the 50's and 60's, I came
to expect ski areas to add a lift or two and some new runs every
year. *I experienced more of the same out west after I arrived at
Mammoth the first time in 1970. I don't think that is happening
anymore.

There is some continued growth such as Jackson gore in Vt but I think
most of the upgrades are starting to be lodging and village type
upgrades. The lodging that went up at Mt Snow when ASC was there has
proved that cheap construction does not work. The older lodging at Okemo
is getting near its end of days and the jackson gore side is a big jump
in quality. I think more also is being spent on cost reductions programs
and going green in a effort to stay in business.

I just finished reading Downhill Slide, a book about ski areas, mostly
focusing on real estate development as a financial tool for megaresort
growth. I can see the effects at Mammoth and Heavenly Valley, but
smaller areas like Snow Summit, Bear Mountain, and June Mountain don't
own buildable real estateat their bases. Both Mammoth and Heavenly
Valley have built gondolas that reach from off-site real-estate
projects into their ski areas proper.

On 12/4/2011 10:38 AM, down_hill wrote:
Richard Henry wrote:
I sorted out a box of old ski area maps this week and it occurred to
me that the California resorts I have visited have not done much in
the last 15 years. There is no difference at Snow Summit, only a
couple of lift upgrades at Bear Mountain, and Mammoth has actually
lost lifts (although probably upgraded the uphill capacity).

Chairs 18 (a triple parallel to and slightly above Chair 2) and 19 (a
double uphill and to the right of the Main Lodge) at Mammoth used to
be favorites of mine because they were usually not crowded (and 18 had
a singles line when it was), but it looks like they were overwhelmed
by the Intrawest upgrade process.

Growing up in Vermont and New Hampshire in the 50's and 60's, I came
to expect ski areas to add a lift or two and some new runs every
year. I experienced more of the same out west after I arrived at
Mammoth the first time in 1970. I don't think that is happening
anymore.

Welcome to the land of really expensive, time consuming and politically
charged environmental permits. Beginning about 1975 (act 250 was passed
in 1970) there was a great slowdown in any kind of development in VT.
There are those of us who think the environmental laws were enacted as
welfare for engineers and planners (I'm the latter) and who love the
legislation.


There is some continued growth such as Jackson gore in Vt but I think
most of the upgrades are starting to be lodging and village type
upgrades. The lodging that went up at Mt Snow when ASC was there has
proved that cheap construction does not work. The older lodging at Okemo
is getting near its end of days and the jackson gore side is a big jump
in quality. I think more also is being spent on cost reductions programs
and going green in a effort to stay in business.

A friend of mine used to be the manager at the lodge/hotel at the bottom
of Jackson Gore, don't mention to him that you think the Jackson Gore
construction quality is better than similar building elsewhere,
including the Grand Hotel at K-mart.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I thought I sent this last night (12-4-11: 8:01PM) but it didn't show up
this morning so I'm re-sending.

On another note.
I really don't care one way or another if you guys want to jerk
Scooter's chain. However, it's his habit of to co-opting legitimate
posts here and make them his. He's gonna do that no matter what, but
when you start replying to those co-opted posts without changing the
"Subject" line, you are making it difficult for those of us who want to
have a "skiing" conversation. Can we try? Please?

Maybe add "Scooter Version" to the subject line?

Vt

VtSkier wrote:
A friend of mine used to be the manager at the lodge/hotel at the bottom
of Jackson Gore, don't mention to him that you think the Jackson Gore
construction quality is better than similar building elsewhere,
including the Grand Hotel at K-mart.

Mt snow & k-mart not happy with that construction as they are the same.
I know with Mt snow it was an on going fight to have issues fixed that
had been there since the building was put up. The roof leaked from day
one. Just a minor issue only when it rains or snow melts, and there were
a couple of places were the smell of mold would be present.


-------------------------------------------------------------
I thought I sent this last night (12-4-11: 8:01PM) but it didn't show up
this morning so I'm re-sending.

On another note.
I really don't care one way or another if you guys want to jerk
Scooter's chain. However, it's his habit of to co-opting legitimate
posts here and make them his. He's gonna do that no matter what, but
when you start replying to those co-opted posts without changing the
"Subject" line, you are making it difficult for those of us who want to
have a "skiing" conversation. Can we try? Please?

Maybe add "Scooter Version" to the subject line?

WOT would be better for way off topic or in my book Waste Of Time

On Dec 5, 4:41*am, VtSkier wrote:


On another note.
I really don't care one way or another if you guys want to jerk
Scooter's chain.

Translation: he is delighted when his fellow terrorists lie, defame,
threaten, and stalk. After all, he's done plenty of that himself.

However, it's his habit of to co-opting legitimate
posts here and make them his.

Nothing is legitimate here. No decent people. No one who hasn't lied
and terrorized.
In the psychopathic mind of this pathological liar, I'm supposed to
ignore his long history of vile behavior if he happens to act nice for
a moment. Typical freak.


He's gonna do that no matter what, but
when you start replying to those co-opted posts without changing the
"Subject" line, you are making it difficult for those of us who want to
have a "skiing" conversation. Can we try? Please?

Of course I'm going to remind everyone that you posted my home address
trying to help a freak kill me. Not to mention your long history of
completely amoral behavior.
Go have a skiing conversation somewhere else, asshole, because as long
as you post here, I'm going to remind people that you are a cowardly
freak.


Maybe add "Scooter Version" to the subject line?

Maybe add "Richard Walsh" to any post that lies about me. With any
luck, Killington might read this ******** and get rid of the criminal.

On Dec 5, 4:41*am, VtSkier wrote:
On 12/4/2011 10:38 AM, down_hill wrote:









Richard Henry wrote:
I sorted out a box of old ski area maps this week and it occurred to
me that the California resorts I have visited have not done much in
the last 15 years. There is no difference at Snow Summit, only a
couple of lift upgrades at Bear Mountain, and Mammoth has actually
lost lifts (although probably upgraded the uphill capacity).

Chairs 18 (a triple parallel to and slightly above Chair 2) and 19 (a
double uphill and to the right of the Main Lodge) at Mammoth used to
be favorites of mine because they were usually not crowded (and 18 had
a singles line when it was), but it looks like they were overwhelmed
by the Intrawest upgrade process.

Growing up in Vermont and New Hampshire in the 50's and 60's, I came
to expect ski areas to add a lift or two and some new runs every
year. I experienced more of the same out west after I arrived at
Mammoth the first time in 1970. I don't think that is happening
anymore.

Welcome to the land of really expensive, time consuming and politically
charged environmental permits. Beginning about 1975 (act 250 was passed
in 1970) there was a great slowdown in any kind of development in VT.
There are those of us who think the environmental laws were enacted as
welfare for engineers and planners (I'm the latter) and who love the
legislation.



There is some continued growth such as Jackson gore in Vt but I think
most of the upgrades are starting to be lodging and village type
upgrades. The lodging that went up at Mt Snow when ASC was there has
proved that cheap construction does not work. The older lodging at Okemo
is getting near its end of days and the jackson gore side is a big jump
in quality. I think more also is being spent on cost reductions programs
and going green in a effort to stay in business.

A friend of mine used to be the manager at the lodge/hotel at the bottom
of Jackson Gore, don't mention to him that you think the Jackson Gore
construction quality is better than similar building elsewhere,
including the Grand Hotel at K-mart.

My most direct experience was with Jay Peak. The first time I visited
they had two end-to-end poma lifts to teh top of their smaller
mountain that were more stressful to ride than any of the trails
down. Then they added a t-bar and took out the upper poma, turning
its path into the infamous UN. There were trails serving all ability
levels on that side, plus a small snackbar/warming shelter and a
little office building, above the State-operated parking lot (25 or 50
cents per car). By the time I finished high school, they had added a
double chair to the shoulder of the higher peak, many more trails down
from there, a new bigger base lodge, and the State had added a bigger
parking lot.

The last time I was there was in the summer of 2005 (we were staying
about 10 days for a family reunion, so we rented a condo). There are
many new lifts and trails infilling the area they occupied 40 years
ago. The "new" stuff is condos and homesites, a golfcourse, an indoor
waterpark, and a skating rink.

In article
,
Richard Henry wrote:

There is some continued growth such as Jackson gore in Vt but I think
most of the upgrades are starting to be lodging and village type
upgrades. The lodging that went up at Mt Snow when ASC was there has
proved that cheap construction does not work. The older lodging at Okemo
is getting near its end of days and the jackson gore side is a big jump
in quality. I think more also is being spent on cost reductions programs
and going green in a effort to stay in business.

A friend of mine used to be the manager at the lodge/hotel at the bottom
of Jackson Gore, don't mention to him that you think the Jackson Gore
construction quality is better than similar building elsewhere,
including the Grand Hotel at K-mart.

My most direct experience was with Jay Peak. The first time I visited
they had two end-to-end poma lifts to teh top of their smaller
mountain that were more stressful to ride than any of the trails
down. Then they added a t-bar and took out the upper poma, turning
its path into the infamous UN. There were trails serving all ability
levels on that side, plus a small snackbar/warming shelter and a
little office building, above the State-operated parking lot (25 or 50
cents per car). By the time I finished high school, they had added a
double chair to the shoulder of the higher peak, many more trails down
from there, a new bigger base lodge, and the State had added a bigger
parking lot.

The last time I was there was in the summer of 2005 (we were staying
about 10 days for a family reunion, so we rented a condo). There are
many new lifts and trails infilling the area they occupied 40 years
ago. The "new" stuff is condos and homesites, a golfcourse, an indoor
waterpark, and a skating rink.

Well I hope that Jay keeps things going...

The condo you rented might have belonged to my parents.

:-)

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

On Dec 5, 2:20*pm, Alan Baker wrote:
In article
,
*Richard Henry wrote:









There is some continued growth such as Jackson gore in Vt but I think
most of the upgrades are starting to be lodging and village type
upgrades. The lodging that went up at Mt Snow when ASC was there has
proved that cheap construction does not work. The older lodging at Okemo
is getting near its end of days and the jackson gore side is a big jump
in quality. I think more also is being spent on cost reductions programs
and going green in a effort to stay in business.

A friend of mine used to be the manager at the lodge/hotel at the bottom
of Jackson Gore, don't mention to him that you think the Jackson Gore
construction quality is better than similar building elsewhere,
including the Grand Hotel at K-mart.

My most direct experience was with Jay Peak. *The first time I visited
they had two end-to-end poma lifts to teh top of their smaller
mountain that were more stressful to ride than any of the trails
down. *Then they added a t-bar and took out the upper poma, turning
its path into the infamous UN. *There were trails serving all ability
levels on that side, plus a small snackbar/warming shelter and a
little office building, above the State-operated parking lot (25 or 50
cents per car). *By the time I finished high school, they had added a
double chair to the shoulder of the higher peak, many more trails down
from there, a new bigger base lodge, and the State had added a bigger
parking lot.

The last time I was there was in the summer of 2005 (we were staying
about 10 days for a family reunion, so we rented a condo). *There are
many new lifts and trails infilling the area they occupied 40 years
ago. *The "new" stuff is condos and homesites, a golfcourse, an indoor
waterpark, and a skating rink.

Well I hope that Jay keeps things going...

The condo you rented might have belonged to my parents.

:-)

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

It was in the Mountainside portion of their layout. The pictures in
Mountainside Images page look just like the one we stayed in. The
other units in our building were occupied by workers building the golf
course.

Digging around in a box of old ski maps I found a "Development Plan"
drawing for Bear Mountain from 89 or so, before Bear Mountain was
acquired by Snow Summit. The plan shows several lifts that have never
been added, the most interesting being a long lift into the bowl of
the valley between Chairs 4 and 8 linked with other lifts up to the
ridge line. Also shown was a lift just west of the current layout,
the top next to Chair 9's top and the bottom behind Outlaw, so it
would have been the closest approach to Snow Summit's trails.

I'm guessing the whole plan was defeated by financial or environmental
restrictions. The SS GM stated after the merger that he could never
link the two areas directly because of spotted owl habitat in the
gully between them.