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help with breakable crust



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 3rd 04, 08:25 PM
William Maas
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Default help with breakable crust

I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as
K2 Work Stinx) fats.

No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real
challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into
totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time.

I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and
when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power
snow-plow/stem christy.

Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came
whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that?

Kind thanks.

Bill Maas
[remove "remove" from email address]



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  #2  
Old November 3rd 04, 09:51 PM
Uli Hausmann
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Default

William Maas schrieb:

I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as
K2 Work Stinx) fats.

No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real
challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into
totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time.

I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and
when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power
snow-plow/stem christy.

Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came
whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that?


First of all: There is always a crust where skiing is nearly impossible.
The better ones can ski what to those with inferior technique might seem
impossible.

Anyway, general rule is speed (and, consequentely, courage), if the
crust is breaking. Lean in to the curve, charge both skis in an equal
way. It will help. I succeed in doing that in fixed heel skiing but only
a little bit with telemark :-((

If the crust is so so, on the limit between keeping and breaking, then
there is required sensibility (and possibly not so much speed).

Greetings,

Ulrich
  #3  
Old November 3rd 04, 11:11 PM
Booker C. Bense
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Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
William Maas wrote:
I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as
K2 Work Stinx) fats.

No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real
challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into
totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time.

I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and
when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power
snow-plow/stem christy.

Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came
whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that?


_ Attitude mostly. Those skis are plenty beefy enough to handle
breakable crust, you just need a few tricks and the confidence
to attack it. Jump turning is not really what you want to do,
sometimes it's what you have to do when the ski isn't stiff
enough to track through the crust.

_ Basically, you need to keep your weight centered and both
skis turning. Resort skiers have a terrible time with this
because they've never learned two footed skiing and stiff
alpine boots are a crutch for keeping your weight centered.
If you can ski crud well then you should be able to manage
breakable crust, which you can think of as REALLY BAD CRUD.

_ Two footed skiing with soft boots will teach you the ankle
flex required. You need to be able to pressure the fronts
of your boots without taking weight off the heel, (i.e. you
want to pressure the front cuff and still drive weight
through the heel.) In particular you want to do this
on the inside ski.

_ The following drill might be useful. Unbuckle your
boots and make turns on soft snow. Concentrate on
making the inner ski of the turn arc and carve as
well as the outer, experiment with shifting the
weight back and forth between the two skis.

_ BTW, this is all horribly old school and would
probably get me thrown out of any PSIA class, but
it's tools and imagery that works for me.

_ Booker C. Bense

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  #4  
Old November 4th 04, 10:54 AM
Jeremy Mortimer
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Posts: n/a
Default

"William Maas" wrote in
:

I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers
(same as K2 Work Stinx) fats.

No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a
real challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel,"
and I go into totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time.

I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed
success, and when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some
sort of power snow-plow/stem christy.

Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy
came whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you
do that?


I agree with the previous answers. One thing they didn't mention is that
you have to decide (continually) whether you're going to try to stay on top
or go through and ski underneath the crust. To stay on top keep your skis
flat, be delicate, weight on both skis. When you suspect that's about to
stop working be brutal - break through deliberately before it happens
accidentally. Bounce your weight on one ski (but careful not to end up with
one ski above and one below!).

You get thrown around a lot on crust, and your boots aren't giving you much
support. The guy who passed you might have had stiffer boots. He might also
have been lighter or on fatter skis, and better able to stay on top, or
heavier with thinner skis and properly established under the crust. If so,
there would be conditions where he would have more problems than you. Of
course, he might be a better skier too :-)

Jeremy
  #5  
Old November 4th 04, 06:56 PM
Ken Roberts
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Default

Yes, my theory is that if you're going to break thru, then put all your
weight on one ski.

Jeremy Mortimer wrote
break through deliberately before it happens
accidentally. Bounce your weight on one ski . . .


Or at least Step the new ski into fall line with full weight commitment onto
it -- to make sure sure it brakes through and bends into reverse-camber to
start turning.

. . . (but careful not to end up with
one ski above and one below!)


I'm not seeing that as so bad -- so long as the ski above is _completely_
above: either riding on the surface or up in the air. But if the snow
underneath is very soft and deep, that would get problematic.

I have an old video of Mike Hattrup skiing some heinous-looking stuff making
turns on his outside ski, with his inside ski up in the air. (Then he
catches an edge on his outside ski, so he makes his next turn with all his
weight on the inside ski.)

So another success factor is well-practiced quick-recovery moves, some of
them so quick that the observer does not notice them as recovery moves
(except in slow-motion video?). And serious _strength_ in the muscles used
to recover to a stable centered position -- of course the obvious leg and
hip muscles, but also back and abdominal muscles. (Stiff boots do not solve
the problem of re-centering after your chest and shoulders got flung down
and forward.)

you have to decide whether you're going to
try to stay on top or go through and ski underneath
the crust. To stay on top keep your skis
flat, be delicate, weight on both skis.


Yes -- in the barely-supportive situation, need to use very soft initiation,
always keeping equal weighting between the two skis. Very difficult to
achieve with the Telemark turn. Much higher probability of success with a
gentle-wedge-initiation stem-christie turn.

Ken


  #6  
Old November 4th 04, 07:43 PM
Ken Roberts
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Default

Booker C. Bense wrote
. . . both skis turning . . . two footed skiing


Two-ski skiing is well worth learning -- notably for enjoying deep powder.
And it's what I used to try to do to handle some breakable crust.

But then an excellent German skier told me that he had found that one-ski
turning was better for non-supportive crust and variable-consistency crud.
(for which the European Alps offer frequent practice opportunities.)

The basic problem with putting weight on both skis in variable-speed /
variable-depth snow is that one ski does one thing at the same time the
other ski does something rather different -- and it's real tricky to manage
that.

That's why a snowboard is so great for tricky variable crust + crud.

And that's why the Telemark turn is _not_ so good for breakable crust. Even
though at first you'd think its longer "wheelbase" for better fore-aft
stability would make it better for recovery from the impact of
snow-variations.

Ken
___________________________________
Booker C. Bense wrote
In article ,
William Maas wrote:
I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same

as
K2 Work Stinx) fats.

No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a

real
challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go

into
totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time.

I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success,

and
when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power
snow-plow/stem christy.

Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy

came
whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do

that?


_ Attitude mostly. Those skis are plenty beefy enough to handle
breakable crust, you just need a few tricks and the confidence
to attack it. Jump turning is not really what you want to do,
sometimes it's what you have to do when the ski isn't stiff
enough to track through the crust.

_ Basically, you need to keep your weight centered and both
skis turning. Resort skiers have a terrible time with this
because they've never learned two footed skiing and stiff
alpine boots are a crutch for keeping your weight centered.
If you can ski crud well then you should be able to manage
breakable crust, which you can think of as REALLY BAD CRUD.

_ Two footed skiing with soft boots will teach you the ankle
flex required. You need to be able to pressure the fronts
of your boots without taking weight off the heel, (i.e. you
want to pressure the front cuff and still drive weight
through the heel.) In particular you want to do this
on the inside ski.

___________________________________________


  #7  
Old November 4th 04, 09:29 PM
Booker C. Bense
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Posts: n/a
Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Ken Roberts wrote:
Booker C. Bense wrote
. . . both skis turning . . . two footed skiing


Two-ski skiing is well worth learning -- notably for enjoying deep powder.
And it's what I used to try to do to handle some breakable crust.

But then an excellent German skier told me that he had found that one-ski
turning was better for non-supportive crust and variable-consistency crud.
(for which the European Alps offer frequent practice opportunities.)

The basic problem with putting weight on both skis in variable-speed /
variable-depth snow is that one ski does one thing at the same time the
other ski does something rather different -- and it's real tricky to manage
that.


_ I find the other way a lot more difficult to manage, unless you
are holding the unweighted ski entirely above the snow. An
unweighted ski goes where the snow wants, not neccessarily where
you want. What you precieve as a problem I precieve as an
advantage. If both skis are slightly weighted, then it's
easier to transfer weight when one loses grip for some reason.
I've tried one footed and it works until it doesn't and then
you fall. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer.

_ Of course the best way to handle breakable crust is to
traverse to the shady side of the mountain where it's still
powder... %-).

_ Booker C. Bense

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  #8  
Old November 5th 04, 08:07 AM
Jeremy Mortimer
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Default

"Ken Roberts" wrote in
:

snip some very good comments....

(Stiff boots do not solve the problem of re-centering after your chest
and shoulders got flung down and forward.)


I just wanted to come back on this. The OP was using light randonnée boots,
which are very soft. They're not great if you get thrown forward, but
they're much worse if your weight gets too far back - the back of the boot
offers very little support, which makes recovery a lot harder. Excellent
practice though - the same principle as skiing with your boots undone if
you're using normal downhill equipment.

Ken


Jeremy
  #9  
Old November 5th 04, 08:10 AM
Uli Hausmann
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Booker C. Bense schrieb:

_ Of course the best way to handle breakable crust is to
traverse to the shady side of the mountain where it's still
powder... %-).


Booker,

that might be a good idea for *your* kind of mountains. Here, in the
alps, crust mainly is not the result of sun and shadow, but the result
of abrupt changes of temperatures. I don't know the Usa, but i think our
conditions are more compareable to your east coast snow types (save, in
the higher zones of the alps - and the north faces - there will be
pretty stable powder - but not that famous champaign powder like in
Canada for example).

Greetings,

Uli
  #10  
Old November 5th 04, 08:25 AM
Uli Hausmann
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Jeremy Mortimer schrieb:

I just wanted to come back on this. The OP was using light randonnée boots,
which are very soft. They're not great if you get thrown forward, but
they're much worse if your weight gets too far back - the back of the boot
offers very little support, which makes recovery a lot harder. Excellent
practice though - the same principle as skiing with your boots undone if
you're using normal downhill equipment.


I agree completely. That's the reason why we (in Europe) tend to give
soft boots to childs and beginners. To make them feel the
forward/backward (and not only right/left and up/down) balance (the
scandivians, often, put alpine beginners for some day on cross country skis.

There is a nice word of Bernard Russi (ex-olympic champion downhill) re
telemark: It makes you feel the 3rd dimension of balance (compared to
fixed heel).

Greetings,

Uli
 




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