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#41
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote:
On 2 Sep 2003 15:50:05 GMT, lal_truckee penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: (I wonder if it should bother me, then, that there is no such thing as a men's class CLIP) There are "men's class" - they are marketed at Steep Clinics or Expert Tuneups. Difference is, women who are so inclined are eligible to join a "Steep Clinic" while men who would feel better in a supportive, lower pressure learning environment are discouraged (maybe disallowed?) from signing up for a "Women's Clinic." See, they're not men's classes, and women will generally be seen in a positive light if they join those classes (and belong there). I know few men, on the other hand, who would feel comfortable enough in their masculinity to sign up for a "kinder, gentler" lesson, even without the deadly "women's" tag on it. And their buddies would harrass them endlessly. It's incredibly stupid, but I think it's true. There's a bit more to it than that. If a ski school really tried to host a men-only class they'd probably find themselves facing a lawsuit or a picket/protest. At the very least it would make for bad publicity. Meanwhile, a resort can offer womens-only clinics and no one says boo. The strict civil libertarian in me says that this is gender discrimination. The pragmatist in me says that I've got more important things to worry about than being shut out of an event that I have no desire to attend anyway. The surrealist in me says "Go fish!" Summer over yet? -- //-Walt // // |
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#42
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On 2 Sep 2003 19:05:02 GMT, Walt penned:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote: On 2 Sep 2003 15:50:05 GMT, lal_truckee penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: (I wonder if it should bother me, then, that there is no such thing as a men's class CLIP) There are "men's class" - they are marketed at Steep Clinics or Expert Tuneups. Difference is, women who are so inclined are eligible to join a "Steep Clinic" while men who would feel better in a supportive, lower pressure learning environment are discouraged (maybe disallowed?) from signing up for a "Women's Clinic." See, they're not men's classes, and women will generally be seen in a positive light if they join those classes (and belong there). I know few men, on the other hand, who would feel comfortable enough in their masculinity to sign up for a "kinder, gentler" lesson, even without the deadly "women's" tag on it. And their buddies would harrass them endlessly. It's incredibly stupid, but I think it's true. There's a bit more to it than that. If a ski school really tried to host a men-only class they'd probably find themselves facing a lawsuit or a picket/protest. At the very least it would make for bad publicity. Meanwhile, a resort can offer womens-only clinics and no one says boo. The strict civil libertarian in me says that this is gender discrimination. The pragmatist in me says that I've got more important things to worry about than being shut out of an event that I have no desire to attend anyway. The surrealist in me says "Go fish!" See my comment about the whole situation being incredibly stupid =P I agree with you. It's discrimination, but there are probably worse issues to face. Summer over yet? *sigh* not quite yet, though the days are getting shorter and cooler. -- monique |
#43
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...
See, that's exactly it. I don't want bonding in my ski lessons, I want, um, lessons. It sounds great for the right demographic, and I think I'm going to try one of these all-day women's clinics, if only because the price is right. Hey, maybe I'll surprise myself and like the lower pressure learning environment ... but my suspicion is that I'd prefer the more traditional style. Heh, heh. When my wife (also named Monique) and I visited Kirkwood near Tahoe shortly after it opened, they were having a free Ladies Day lesson and lunch with champagne, so she and the other gals in the group opted for that program. She raved about the instruction (by some guy) helping her a lot. She said the guy told her the same things I'd been telling her for several years. Coming from someone else made my suggestions more valid, I guess. |
#44
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On 3 Sep 2003 00:25:12 GMT, Kneale Brownson penned:
Heh, heh. When my wife (also named Monique) and I visited Kirkwood near Tahoe shortly after it opened, they were having a free Ladies Day lesson and lunch with champagne, so she and the other gals in the group opted for that program. She raved about the instruction (by some guy) helping her a lot. She said the guy told her the same things I'd been telling her for several years. Coming from someone else made my suggestions more valid, I guess. It can be hard to take advice from your s.o., especially if they're not certified experts in whatever the subject matter happens to be. My fiance has been doing all the stuff we're now doing together for years, whereas I've just started, and no matter how well-intentioned his tips and encouragement are, I find them insufferable. Then again, the instructor may have used a turn of phrase or analogy -- one your wife didn't even remember -- that suddenly made everything click for her. -- monique |
#45
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:43:16 CST, snoig penned:
Hi Monique, One highly recomended womens clinic would be http://www.backcountrybabes.com/. Leslie usually does a couple of clinics at the Basin and Loveland each year. Some friends of mine have taken some of the courses and all were very impressed. From what I hear, it's not your typical womens clinic. They mainly cater to tele skiers but they do offer one steep skiing clinic April 2-4 in Silverton (good place for it). Thanks for the tip! I'll look into them. And only a few more weeks until skiing starts. September 28th last year. Plenty of fresh snow on Hoosier Pass a couple of days ago. Should start collecting in some chutes this week. snoig -- monique |
#46
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...
You sound like the A-type lady I was skiing wiht last week. She asked for some recommendations for private lessons for teh coming week, I reeled off some names, and she said "no women! I only want to learn from men". So I recommended our sole US instructor, who in my opinion has a great attitude, is an excellent skiier and teacher, and just so happens to be gorgeous as well. She emailed that she found him to be exactly what she liked, so that all ended well. Like I said, some women are like that, however most I encounter in ski school and just generally chatting around the resort are of the sort I described. I guess if you use men as the yardstick of excellence, they are less-than men. Otherwise, they are simply different from men, and no lesser. So women's programmes work for the women whose learning style is being catered-to, but it sounds as though you'd be happier hucking with the guys. Keystone had special names for those groups, usually clinics of various sorts (steep n deep, bumps etc). as to men-only lesson, I guess that's got connotations of exclusive clubs etc. I wonder if there would be a demand for such groups? It'd be a brave resort that had them, sadly. ant |
#47
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On 3 Sep 2003 21:20:28 GMT, ant penned:
snip as to men-only lesson, I guess that's got connotations of exclusive clubs etc. I wonder if there would be a demand for such groups? It'd be a brave resort that had them, sadly. ant It seems like one could get around the whole "accusations of sexism" issue by simply holding classes designed for different personality types. So you could have a once- or twice-a-week lesson for "aggressive beginners" as well as one for "cautious experts," etc. I don't personally see the point in targetting it to a particular gender, although I guess some women feel more comfortable learning without men around. I suppose some men might feel the same way about women. I'm no expert in education, but it seems (just from observation) that some people need to feel they understand every nuance before they try something; other people (like me) prefer an iterative approach in which they get the broad-brush strokes, try it a few times, get a bit of feedback, etc. I can't help it -- I get antsy sitting through too much lecture during sports-oriented classes. (Part of that, in hockey as well as in skiing, is that I've yet to find a boot that doesn't cause some sort of discomfort to what they call the "sixth toe." In both sports, I seem fine as long as I'm moving, but when I have to stand still, the foot position tends to cause various forms of pain.) I'm sure there are still other types of learners, too. -- monique My pointless ramblings: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6 |
#48
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ... It seems like one could get around the whole "accusations of sexism" issue by simply holding classes designed for different personality types. So you could have a once- or twice-a-week lesson for "aggressive beginners" as well as one for "cautious experts," etc. I don't personally see the point in targetting it to a particular gender, although I guess some women feel more comfortable learning without men around. I suppose some men might feel the same way about women. It seems that one could get around ''accusations of sexism" (as well as other pcisms) by ignoring them and not giving them any more attention than they deserve (which is zero). Of course we'd need to get he courts to do the same so that the victims wouldn't have to defend themselves. I'm no expert in education, but it seems (just from observation) that some people need to feel they understand every nuance before they try something; other people (like me) prefer an iterative approach in which they get the broad-brush strokes, try it a few times, get a bit of feedback, etc. I can't help it -- I get antsy sitting through too much lecture during sports-oriented classes. (Part of that, in hockey as well as in skiing, is that I've yet to find a boot that doesn't cause some sort of discomfort to what they call the "sixth toe." In both sports, I seem fine as long as I'm moving, but when I have to stand still, the foot position tends to cause various forms of pain.) I'm sure there are still other types of learners, too. I think that anyone that has truely achieved advanced skiing skills should be able to communicate the type of lesson they want. The problem is that that person in a group split will get grouped with the next lowest group rather than the ski school giving them a "group lesson" of one. An advanced skier should be able to read or talk about technique and pra ctice it on their own and get what they need out of it IMO as well. pigo |
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