Is June Mt. Dead?

On Jul 17, 1:34*pm, lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/17/12 8:28 AM, Richard Henry wrote:







On Jul 17, 6:12 am, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 02:16:48 +0000, Richard Henry said:

I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct fro

I don't think they can survive as part of MMSA. *MMSA has its own
serious problems when 37% of their earnings are just going to pay
interest on their debt.

I think the debt was inevitable in order to raise enough cash to win
the bidding war for McCoy's stake. *He built the business with little
long-term debt, plowing profits back into capital improvements every
year, even helping out with loans to keep June alive through lean
years before he bought it.

Splitting June off should result in smaller debt for that part, since
MMSA has done such a good job of presenting it as a money-loser. * In
addition to the purchase cost, throw in another $5-10 million for the
minimal upgrades (new J1 and snowmaking on the face).

The estimates presented at the various meetings and documents filed in
support of the Rodeo Grounds development proposal seem to indicate
that June would be viable with 120,000 skier visits a year, a number
achieved only once since MMSA acquired it. *There are 30 (or fewer)
peak days in a ski season (weekends and holidays) and the capacity was
estimated at 6500 customers. *That pencils out to a possible 195,000
visits, plus whatever comes in during weekdays and early and late
season. *Of course, June loses a lot of its charm if it is crowded.

June would be monstrously crowded at 6500 tickets - why would someone
pass up MM to ski crowded June?
June used to have a steady minor-league customer base of locals and MM
skiers willing to try a modest ski area on a visit to E Sierra, which
could sustain June in a valid hand to month business plan. MMSA ran up
debt and wants someone else to bail them out, including rampant growth
in June Lake, creating a nightmare for locals.
Somewhere the business clowns got the idea they could build their build
customer base with an airport - never going to work and EVERYONE knew
it. MMSA should go bankrupt to shed debt; if only there was some way to
jail the owners and management, justice could be done.

Better to build light rail from Reno to MM. Bodie once had such rail
service; did it extend to Bishop? Much of the grading may still be
usable - might even be relatively cheap.

The narrow-gauge Carson and Colorado ran from Carson City to below
Owens Lake area. It never made it to the Colorado except through a
crossover junction at Owenyo (near Lone Pine) to a branch of the
Southern Pacific. About all that remains of that now is a few feet of
museum track at Laws, the closest point of the line to Bishop.

When I first journeyed up the desert to Mammoth in 1970, the SP tracks
crossed 395 in a few places and there were occasional trains to pick
up mineral products from Owens Lake salt works, but the passenger
service was long gone (you may have seen some of those trains - the
railroad station and town in the movie Bad Day at Black Rock was a set
constructed beside the SP line near Lone Pine).

Here's a thought - now that California is going into the high-speed
rail business, run the first line from Victorville to Bishop. I'm
betting that would have more traffic than the planned Bakersfield-
Fresno first link, at least in the winter.

On 7/17/12 1:34 PM, lal_truckee wrote:
Bodie once had such rail service; did it extend to Bishop?

I'd forgotten: Of course there formerly was rail service all along the
eastern Sierra. I cite the definitive source for historical background -
Hollywood. Specifically, Bad Day at Black Rock. Spencer Tracy wouldn't lie.

On Jul 17, 2:32*pm, lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/17/12 1:34 PM, lal_truckee wrote:

Bodie once had such rail service; did it extend to Bishop?

I'd forgotten: Of course there formerly was rail service all along the
eastern Sierra. I cite the definitive source for historical background -
Hollywood. Specifically, Bad Day at Black Rock. Spencer Tracy wouldn't lie.

Except that Black Rock was supposed to be in Arizona. However, the
Sierra crestline in the \background is unmistakeable.

On 07/17/2012 03:31 PM, Richard Henry wrote:

Except that Black Rock was supposed to be in Arizona. However, the
Sierra crestline in the \background is unmistakeable.

At times, deep in the woods of Canada|Vermont|Wyoming you can see the
Mt. Wilson (SoCal) transmitting towers in the background across the
intervening valley.

--
Cheers, Bev
---------------------------------------
That's my opinion. Ought to be yours.

On Jul 19, 5:11*am, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 15:28:24 +0000, Richard Henry said:


The estimates presented at the various meetings and documents filed in
support of the Rodeo Grounds development proposal seem to indicate
that June would be viable with 120,000 skier visits a year, a number
achieved only once since MMSA acquired it. *There are 30 (or fewer)
peak days in a ski season (weekends and holidays) and the capacity was
estimated at 6500 customers. *That pencils out to a possible 195,000
visits, plus whatever comes in during weekdays and early and late
season. *Of course, June loses a lot of its charm if it is crowded.

The 195k visits are not a business plan, those are the parameters of
maximum at June Mountain in a season: a good season. *I read that June
Lake gets more fisherman visits in the Late Spring to early Fall than
skiers in the winter..


The 195,000 visits is my own rough estimate of the maximum business
in a good snow year. Any viable business plan would have to assume
much less than that.

If you look at the TOT and sales tax figures for unincorporated Mono
County (most of which is from June Lake) 90% comes during the non-ski
months.

On Jul 19, 9:49*pm, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-20 00:35:35 +0000, Richard Henry said:





On Jul 19, 5:11*am, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 15:28:24 +0000, Richard Henry said:

The estimates presented at the various meetings and documents filed in
support of the Rodeo Grounds development proposal seem to indicate
that June would be viable with 120,000 skier visits a year, a number
achieved only once since MMSA acquired it. *There are 30 (or fewer)
peak days in a ski season (weekends and holidays) and the capacity was
estimated at 6500 customers. *That pencils out to a possible 195,000
visits, plus whatever comes in during weekdays and early and late
season. *Of course, June loses a lot of its charm if it is crowded.

The 195k visits are not a business plan, those are the parameters of
maximum at June Mountain in a season: a good season. *I read that June
Lake gets more fisherman visits in the Late Spring to early Fall than
skiers in the winter..

The 195,000 visits is my own rough estimate of *the maximum business
in a good snow year. *Any viable business plan would have to assume
much less than that.

If you look at the TOT and sales tax figures for unincorporated Mono
County (most of which is from June Lake) 90% comes during *the non-ski
months.

* *Looking at the financial sheet you posted about June Mountain's
revenue and losses from the past six fiscal years, The June Lake
community basically needs about $3 to $4 million in revenue streams to
counteract the losses of the closing of June Mountain. ($2-3 million if
one is just counting the money to pay employees working for June
Mountain in a season) *I think some changes in zoning and residential
codes for all the cabins in the area, may help, not $3-4 million but it
may help in long term planning, and increase revenues in the upcoming
years. * Second, If the Rodeo grounds can be put on the Rodeo Circuit,
both on local and Western Regional, (a long shot, but a posssibility)
They could get a huge amount of crowds from all across the west for a
rodeo. *Ditto using the Rodeo grounds for the county fair, 4-H, etc.
This would mean the minimal needs to be done for development on the
Rodeo Grounds, they can handle the crowds and the set up, etc. *As much
as large crowds can taxed the water table, sanitation, air quality,
etc, it probably does less damage to the environment in the region that
18-36 hole golf course, which takes millions of gallons of water to
keep green, let alone the tons of fertilizer that will go into the
runoff.

* * However, my ideas aren't business plans, just alternatives to try
to counter the loss of June Mountain. *I just think the last thing June
Lake should do is follow the advice of Rusty Gregory, who's background,
I am assuming is real estate financing. *June Lake should utilized some
things that they can use that are lying around, like the unused cabins.

Another investment, I would look into, but it could be risky is
starting more hatcheries, but I think right now, every pebble move will
help, instead of aiming for a major resort development or thinking a
casino will solve June Lake's problems.- Hide quoted text -

"Rodeo Grounds" has nothing to do with any rodeo that I know of - it's
just the name of a piece of land. The plot of land in question is 90
acres of mostly wooded hills centered on Northside Dr across the road
from the June Mt. parking lot.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.7...22,-119.075556

There is a rumor that the land has been purchased by a private buyer
within the last few weeks.

On Jul 22, 8:56*pm, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-20 05:44:58 +0000, Richard Henry said:









On Jul 19, 9:49 pm, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-20 00:35:35 +0000, Richard Henry said:

On Jul 19, 5:11 am, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 15:28:24 +0000, Richard Henry said:

The estimates presented at the various meetings and documents filed in
support of the Rodeo Grounds development proposal seem to indicate
that June would be viable with 120,000 skier visits a year, a number
achieved only once since MMSA acquired it. There are 30 (or fewer)
peak days in a ski season (weekends and holidays) and the capacity was
estimated at 6500 customers. That pencils out to a possible 195,000
visits, plus whatever comes in during weekdays and early and late
season. Of course, June loses a lot of its charm if it is crowded.

The 195k visits are not a business plan, those are the parameters of
maximum at June Mountain in a season: a good season. I read that June
Lake gets more fisherman visits in the Late Spring to early Fall than
skiers in the winter..

The 195,000 visits is my own rough estimate of the maximum business
in a good snow year. Any viable business plan would have to assume
much less than that.

If you look at the TOT and sales tax figures for unincorporated Mono
County (most of which is from June Lake) 90% comes during the non-ski
months.

Looking at the financial sheet you posted about June Mountain's
revenue and losses from the past six fiscal years, The June Lake
community basically needs about $3 to $4 million in revenue streams to
counteract the losses of the closing of June Mountain. ($2-3 million if
one is just counting the money to pay employees working for June
Mountain in a season) I think some changes in zoning and residential
codes for all the cabins in the area, may help, not $3-4 million but it
may help in long term planning, and increase revenues in the upcoming
years. Second, If the Rodeo grounds can be put on the Rodeo Circuit,
both on local and Western Regional, (a long shot, but a posssibility)
They could get a huge amount of crowds from all across the west for a
rodeo. Ditto using the Rodeo grounds for the county fair, 4-H, etc.
This would mean the minimal needs to be done for development on the
Rodeo Grounds, they can handle the crowds and the set up, etc. As much
as large crowds can taxed the water table, sanitation, air quality,
etc, it probably does less damage to the environment in the region that
18-36 hole golf course, which takes millions of gallons of water to
keep green, let alone the tons of fertilizer that will go into the
runoff.

However, my ideas aren't business plans, just alternatives to try
to counter the loss of June Mountain. I just think the last thing June
Lake should do is follow the advice of Rusty Gregory, who's background,
I am assuming is real estate financing. June Lake should utilized some
things that they can use that are lying around, like the unused cabins..

Another investment, I would look into, but it could be risky is
starting more hatcheries, but I think right now, every pebble move will
help, instead of aiming for a major resort development or thinking a
casino will solve June Lake's problems.- Hide quoted text -

"Rodeo Grounds" has nothing to do with any rodeo that I know of - it's
just the name of a piece of land. *The plot of land in question is 90
acres of mostly wooded hills centered on Northside Dr across the road
from the June Mt. parking lot.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.7...pn=0.1,0.1&t=h...

There is a rumor that the land has been purchased by a private buyer
within the last few weeks.

I understand the Rodeo Grounds are just a name, however if they are
going to be used to help with June Lake's employment, and the closing
of June Mountain, they need to be used without accumulating more debt
in some commercial real estate development, or economically and
environmentally stable. *For a 18 Hole Course, they probably need
around 110-120 acres, (Cherry Hills near Denver, is one of the few 18
hole golf courses under 100 acres and it is pretty tight) ditto for
resort development.

* Water is going to be a huge issue. *I don't know if the City of Los
Angeles has it legal reach up that far north.

If the land has been purchased, it should be in property titles
section/deeds at the Mono County courthouse, unless they paid cash
upfront for the entire parcel.

LADWP has rights to some of the water in the June Lake loop. They
used to capture almost all of it and run it south down a tunnel into
the Owens River. They have been forced to cut back on some of that so
that Mono Lake does not dry out any more than it has.

Part of the approval process for the Rodeo Grounds development in the
2006-8 timeframe was to show that the probable water consumption would
fit within the June Lake Utility District water rights.

No golf course had ever been planned for the area to my knowledge.
Summer recreation is mostly fishing and passive boating on the lakes,
plus hikes and pack trips into the mountains.

Latest tactic -

Rusty Gregory is meeting with Sen. Feinstein to get support for a land
swap so that MMSA will get ownership of the area around the base lodge
and Mammoth Mt Inn. Some June Lake and Mono County residents are
sending letters and emails to her opposing the land swap citing the
closure of June Mt. as the reason.

LA Times today

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,3265113.story

There was a meeting of the June Lake Community Council last night.
The discussion got angry when the manager of June Mt said there was
not enough time remaining before the winter to perform lift
maintenance and inspections, aand that he has no staff to perform the
work anyway.