Is June Mt. Dead?

On Jul 13, 8:13*am, lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/12/12 9:52 PM, comadrejo wrote:



* Rusty Gregory's answer that June Mountain needs 1000 rooms built to
make the mountain feasible,

Bzzzzzt
Merely upgrade Tioga Pass road to all-weather freeway.
This would also serve to get more park visitors momentarily closer to
the Yosemite sights but discourage stopping and clogging up the park.
As long as we're talking upgrades for under-utilized state recreation
areas, think of how many ice cream parlors and fast food joints they
could put in Bodie, if they had more traffic over Tioga.

Or Sonora Pass a few miles further north. Upgrading to an all-winter
road there would be a similar effort to Tioga Pass and would leave
Yosemite unmolested.

June Lake Citizen Advisory Committee Meeting Recap by Karrah Spitznagel

http://www.mrablog.com/june-lake-cit...ah-spitznagel/

On Friday, June 22, 2012 12:21:39 PM UTC-8, Richard Henry wrote:
MMSA official statement --

***
June 21, 2012
Rusty Gregory, Mammoth Mountain Ski Area Chairman and CEO, announced
today the company will not operate June Mountain this summer and for
the upcoming 2012-13 winter season. “June has operated at an annual
deficit each year since its purchase in 1986,” said Gregory. “It is
time to invest some of this subsidy into the analysis and planning
required to position the resort for a sustainable future, then secure
the approvals and financing required to create it.”

Mammoth purchased June Mountain in 1986 with the idea of significantly
increasing the size of the resort by building new facilities,
extending new runs to the June Lake Village, and fostering additional
developed ski areas along the San Joaquin Ridge, resulting in a
connection between Mammoth and June Mountains. For a number of
reasons, these plans were never realized and June Mountain has, in
turn, suffered from an identity crisis that has both stifled its
ability to achieve its full potential and required substantial
financial subsidy from Mammoth on an annual basis. Cessation of
operations will help the company dedicate its focus to a new future
for June Mountain. Mammoth will be working with its partner the U.S.
Forest Service to reach the best possible result in this endeavor.

In the weeks to come, Mammoth will be working to determine if and to
what extent it can absorb June’s year round workforce.

Mammoth Mountain will continue to offer world-class skiing,
snowboarding and summer activities for locals and visitors to the
region.

Mammoth Mountain has operated continuously under permit from the U.S.
Forest Service since 1954, and operated both resorts for the past 26
years. Mammoth Mountain Ski Area also owns and operates a variety of
resort businesses including recreation, hospitality, food and beverage
and retail including Mammoth Mountain Ski Area, Tamarack Lodge and
Resort, Mammoth Snowmobile Adventures, Woolly’s Adventure Summit,
Mammoth Mountain Bike Park and the Mammoth Mountain Inn. Mammoth
Mountain also operates Juniper Springs Resort, the Village at Mammoth,
and Sierra Star Golf Course.
***

Long discussions here --

http://forums.mammothmountain.com/vi...13&t=13693

http://forums.mammothmountain.com/vi...14&t=13706

On 07/13/2012 08:13 AM, lal_truckee wrote:

On 7/12/12 9:52 PM, comadrejo wrote:

Rusty Gregory's answer that June Mountain needs 1000 rooms built to
make the mountain feasible,

Bzzzzzt
Merely upgrade Tioga Pass road to all-weather freeway.
This would also serve to get more park visitors momentarily closer to
the Yosemite sights but discourage stopping and clogging up the park.
As long as we're talking upgrades for under-utilized state recreation
areas, think of how many ice cream parlors and fast food joints they
could put in Bodie, if they had more traffic over Tioga.

Am I the only one who remembers when Tioga was a narrow one-way
[possibly dirt] road and cars were taken across in convoys? If so,
check out The Long Long Trailer with Lucille Ball.

--
Cheers, Bev
__________________________________________________ _____
I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the
same manner that fish follow migrating caribou.
-- Paul Tomblin

On Jul 14, 1:24*pm, The Real Bev wrote:
On 07/13/2012 08:13 AM, lal_truckee wrote:

On 7/12/12 9:52 PM, comadrejo wrote:

* Rusty Gregory's answer that June Mountain needs 1000 rooms built to
make the mountain feasible,

Bzzzzzt
Merely upgrade Tioga Pass road to all-weather freeway.
This would also serve to get more park visitors momentarily closer to
the Yosemite sights but discourage stopping and clogging up the park.
As long as we're talking upgrades for under-utilized state recreation
areas, think of how many ice cream parlors and fast food joints they
could put in Bodie, if they had more traffic over Tioga.

Am I the only one who remembers when Tioga was a narrow one-way
[possibly dirt] road and cars were taken across in convoys? *If so,
check out The Long Long Trailer with Lucille Ball.

--
Cheers, Bev
__________________________________________________ _____
I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the
same manner that fish follow migrating caribou.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Paul Tomblin

I don't remember that, but route 140 through the El Portal entrance to
Yosemite is still limited to one lane for a short stretch due to a
rockslide that started in 2006 and apparently is still going.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...C0AA01B8B77246

On Jul 12, 8:48*am, Richard Henry wrote:
On Jul 12, 5:10*am, Richard Henry wrote:









On Jul 11, 7:29*am, Richard Henry wrote:

On Jul 10, 10:44*pm, Richard Henry wrote:

Tonight I attended the June Lake commnity meeting where Rusty Gregory
addressed the community and opened himself up to all comments and
questions. *The community cneter meeting room was overlowing, the
adjacent kitchen was filled with chairs, as was the smaller meeting
room. *There were people standing around outside listening as well.

The high point of the meeting was when Bud Hayward, the original
operator of June Mountain, got up to speak, even though he said he was
not interested in taking over the mountain again.

The low point of the meeting came when Rusty Gregory (CEO of MMSA,
plus part owner and one of the junior creditors) told the crowd they
needed to get off their asses and support air service.

The head of Inyo National Forest announced that he is serving MMSA
with a letter of non-compliance of their operating permit. *That got a
big cheer.

The mpost interesting part to me was when Gregory got up to speak for
abut the third time. *He presented some summary financials -

MMSA business plan is to earn about $45 million/year after direct
expenses. *$17 million goes to interest on their long-term debt, $10
million to paying down the debt, and about $10 million to capital
replacements and improvements.

In 2011-12 MMSA made only about $23 million. *They were about to go
into default on their debt payments, but Wells Fargo Bank, their
biggest lender proposed a restructuring of the debt if the other 5
banks involved would agree. *With a week to go before the banks called
the loan, the other banks demanded that expenses be cut further in
order for them to go along with the new debt plan. *Closing June
Mountain for the upcoming season was how that was done.

A longer report on the meeting -

https://www.facebook.com/SaveJuneMou...47168602068136

Photo of a financial sheet presented by Rusty Gregory at the meeting
--

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...set=a.24496137...

I had planned to drive up Monday with a side trip to the White
Mountains east of Bishop and the old trees up there, but my son threw
a joker at me by borrowing my pickup to help his girlfriend move
furniture into her apartment at San Francisco State, and then stay at
Davis for the summer pre-pre-season soccer practice. *He traded me his
car (94 Mercedes) which I didn't want to put through the dirt roads up
on the mountain ridges.

To swap the cars back, I drove up to Davis Sunday-Monday night, and
then over to South Lake Tahoe to spend the night. Tuesday I drove down
395 to June Lake, and then Wednesday I went over Tioga Pass and
through Yosemite NP, including a side trip to Glacier Point where I
have not been for almost 40 years. *It was a beautiful drive overall,
but exhausting.

And a few concluding notes from the trip - the June Lake Villager
Motel where I stayed is a homey little place - several building that
look like they were built one at a time by the owner. I had room 111,
a King/Kitchen unit, which means a mini-kitchen across the breakfast
bar from the bed. I especially liked the combination electric range
and sink. The room was good size, clean, nice view of the lake and
mountains, but no telephone or AC, and the electric outlets were all 2-
prong, except for the plugs in the bathroom (my computer power cord
just reached from there to a chair beside the bed).

I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct from Mammoth.
In the 80s and 90s the distinction was services to snowboarders before
Mammoth allowed them and relief from the long liftlines at Mammoth.
However, Mammoth has permitted snowboards for years, and the
conversion of many of Mammoth's chairs to HS quads has reduced the
waits.

Speaking of waits, I've been waiting for two and a half years for you to provide the contact info for the SPD officer who blew you off with a FORM EMAIL. Same for Baker to make good on his promise to lie to the cops. Same for Bob Thompson to provide the contact info for the SPD lieutenant he claimed was going to put me in prison, or the RCMP Mountie who was going to ban me from entering Canada. And of course, I've been waiting twelve years or so for Ted Waldron to show the post. Or give contact info for the SPD officer he claimed is monitoring my every move.
Now THAT's patience. And humiliation. For you freaks, freak.

On Monday, July 16, 2012 7:16:48 PM UTC-7, Richard Henry wrote:
On Jul 12, 8:48*am, Richard Henry > wrote:
> On Jul 12, 5:10*am, Richard Henry > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 7:29*am, Richard Henry > wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 10, 10:44*pm, Richard Henry > wrote:
>
> > > > Tonight I attended the June Lake commnity meeting where Rusty Gregory
> > > > addressed the community and opened himself up to all comments and
> > > > questions. *The community cneter meeting room was overlowing, the
> > > > adjacent kitchen was filled with chairs, as was the smaller meeting
> > > > room. *There were people standing around outside listening as well.
>
> > > > The high point of the meeting was when Bud Hayward, the original
> > > > operator of June Mountain, got up to speak, even though he said he was
> > > > not interested in taking over the mountain again.
>
> > > > The low point of the meeting came when Rusty Gregory (CEO of MMSA,
> > > > plus part owner and one of the junior creditors) told the crowd they
> > > > needed to get off their asses and support air service..
>
> > > > The head of Inyo National Forest announced that he is serving MMSA
> > > > with a letter of non-compliance of their operating permit. *That got a
> > > > big cheer.
>
> > > > The mpost interesting part to me was when Gregory got up to speak for
> > > > abut the third time. *He presented some summary financials -
>
> > > > MMSA business plan is to earn about $45 million/year after direct
> > > > expenses. *$17 million goes to interest on their long-term debt, $10
> > > > million to paying down the debt, and about $10 million to capital
> > > > replacements and improvements.
>
> > > > In 2011-12 MMSA made only about $23 million. *They were about to go
> > > > into default on their debt payments, but Wells Fargo Bank, their
> > > > biggest lender proposed a restructuring of the debt if the other 5
> > > > banks involved would agree. *With a week to go before the banks called
> > > > the loan, the other banks demanded that expenses be cut further in
> > > > order for them to go along with the new debt plan. *Closing June
> > > > Mountain for the upcoming season was how that was done.
>
> > > A longer report on the meeting -
>
> > >https://www.facebook.com/SaveJuneMou...47168602068136
>
> > Photo of a financial sheet presented by Rusty Gregory at the meeting
> > --
>
> >http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...set=a.24496137...
>
> I had planned to drive up Monday with a side trip to the White
> Mountains east of Bishop and the old trees up there, but my son threw
> a joker at me by borrowing my pickup to help his girlfriend move
> furniture into her apartment at San Francisco State, and then stay at
> Davis for the summer pre-pre-season soccer practice. *He traded me his
> car (94 Mercedes) which I didn't want to put through the dirt roads up
> on the mountain ridges.
>
> To swap the cars back, I drove up to Davis Sunday-Monday night, and
> then over to South Lake Tahoe to spend the night. Tuesday I drove down
> 395 to June Lake, and then Wednesday I went over Tioga Pass and
> through Yosemite NP, including a side trip to Glacier Point where I
> have not been for almost 40 years. *It was a beautiful drive overall,
> but exhausting.

And a few concluding notes from the trip - the June Lake Villager
Motel where I stayed is a homey little place - several building that
look like they were built one at a time by the owner. I had room 111,
a King/Kitchen unit, which means a mini-kitchen across the breakfast
bar from the bed. I especially liked the combination electric range
and sink. The room was good size, clean, nice view of the lake and
mountains, but no telephone or AC, and the electric outlets were all 2-
prong, except for the plugs in the bathroom (my computer power cord
just reached from there to a chair beside the bed).

I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct from Mammoth.
In the 80s and 90s the distinction was services to snowboarders before
Mammoth allowed them and relief from the long liftlines at Mammoth.
However, Mammoth has permitted snowboards for years, and the
conversion of many of Mammoth's chairs to HS quads has reduced the
waits.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:12:13 AM UTC-6, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 02:16:48 +0000, Richard Henry said:

> I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
> separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
> obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct fro

I don't think they can survive as part of MMSA. MMSA has its own
serious problems when 37% of their earnings are just going to pay
interest on their debt.

I knew the snowboard fad was going to die out. I didn't expect them to take the industry with them. Oh well. I'm pretty much done with it anyway.

On Jul 17, 6:12*am, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 02:16:48 +0000, Richard Henry said:

I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct fro

I don't think they can survive as part of MMSA. *MMSA has its own
serious problems when 37% of their earnings are just going to pay
interest on their debt.

I think the debt was inevitable in order to raise enough cash to win
the bidding war for McCoy's stake. He built the business with little
long-term debt, plowing profits back into capital improvements every
year, even helping out with loans to keep June alive through lean
years before he bought it.

Splitting June off should result in smaller debt for that part, since
MMSA has done such a good job of presenting it as a money-loser. In
addition to the purchase cost, throw in another $5-10 million for the
minimal upgrades (new J1 and snowmaking on the face).

The estimates presented at the various meetings and documents filed in
support of the Rodeo Grounds development proposal seem to indicate
that June would be viable with 120,000 skier visits a year, a number
achieved only once since MMSA acquired it. There are 30 (or fewer)
peak days in a ski season (weekends and holidays) and the capacity was
estimated at 6500 customers. That pencils out to a possible 195,000
visits, plus whatever comes in during weekdays and early and late
season. Of course, June loses a lot of its charm if it is crowded.

On 7/17/12 8:28 AM, Richard Henry wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:12 am, comadrejo wrote:
On 2012-07-17 02:16:48 +0000, Richard Henry said:

I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct fro

I don't think they can survive as part of MMSA. MMSA has its own
serious problems when 37% of their earnings are just going to pay
interest on their debt.

I think the debt was inevitable in order to raise enough cash to win
the bidding war for McCoy's stake. He built the business with little
long-term debt, plowing profits back into capital improvements every
year, even helping out with loans to keep June alive through lean
years before he bought it.

Splitting June off should result in smaller debt for that part, since
MMSA has done such a good job of presenting it as a money-loser. In
addition to the purchase cost, throw in another $5-10 million for the
minimal upgrades (new J1 and snowmaking on the face).

The estimates presented at the various meetings and documents filed in
support of the Rodeo Grounds development proposal seem to indicate
that June would be viable with 120,000 skier visits a year, a number
achieved only once since MMSA acquired it. There are 30 (or fewer)
peak days in a ski season (weekends and holidays) and the capacity was
estimated at 6500 customers. That pencils out to a possible 195,000
visits, plus whatever comes in during weekdays and early and late
season. Of course, June loses a lot of its charm if it is crowded.

June would be monstrously crowded at 6500 tickets - why would someone
pass up MM to ski crowded June?
June used to have a steady minor-league customer base of locals and MM
skiers willing to try a modest ski area on a visit to E Sierra, which
could sustain June in a valid hand to month business plan. MMSA ran up
debt and wants someone else to bail them out, including rampant growth
in June Lake, creating a nightmare for locals.
Somewhere the business clowns got the idea they could build their build
customer base with an airport - never going to work and EVERYONE knew
it. MMSA should go bankrupt to shed debt; if only there was some way to
jail the owners and management, justice could be done.

Better to build light rail from Reno to MM. Bodie once had such rail
service; did it extend to Bishop? Much of the grading may still be
usable - might even be relatively cheap.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:47:10 AM UTC-7, pigo wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:12:13 AM UTC-6, comadrejo wrote:
> On 2012-07-17 02:16:48 +0000, Richard Henry said:
>
> > I don't think June Mountain can survive financially as a business
> > separate from Mammoth unless there are some upgrades (J1 is an
> > obstacle to new customers) and some attraction distinct fro
>
> I don't think they can survive as part of MMSA. MMSA has its own
> serious problems when 37% of their earnings are just going to pay
> interest on their debt.

I knew the snowboard fad was going to die out. I didn't expect them to take the industry with them. Oh well. I'm pretty much done with it anyway.

Holy ****. Did Brain Fried Bob Thompson really just say that snowboarding killed the ski industry?
There is stupid. There is ****ing stupid. And then there is Brain Fried Bob. Who has been pretty much done with sanity and manhood for a long, long time.