Will oil prices kill XC?

In article ,
Terje Mathisen wrote:
Jim Whalen NULL wrote:
On Jul 10, 1:24 am, "
wrote:
Do you expect to travel less to snow this winter?

This is a real issue.
....
Bottom line - XC skiing WILL be impacted by the fuel crisis (and I
suspect downhill will as well).

What you guys still don't get is that you are paying less than half of
what we do here in Europe!

Americans, Terje, Americans.

Currently we're at nearly $3 per liter, i.e. $11 per gallon.

Yep, heard that from another source. I should also check for the price
of gas in .is.

--

Terje Mathisen wrote:
Jim Whalen NULL wrote:
On Jul 10, 1:24 am, "
wrote:
Do you expect to travel less to snow this winter? Global warming will
kill XC, but high oil prices may kill it even faster.

This is a real issue. Personally, I am getting to the age where I
[snip]
Bottom line - XC skiing WILL be impacted by the fuel crisis (and I
suspect downhill will as well).

What you guys still don't get is that you are paying less than half of
what we do here in Europe!

Currently we're at nearly $3 per liter, i.e. $11 per gallon.

Driving three hours each way for a weekend in the mountains is getting
more expensive, otoh we're driving a relatively small Opel (i.e. German
GM) Zafira station wagon with a diesel engine, which means that even
with a ski box on the roof we're getting about 7l per 100 km.

I.e. 100/1.6=62.5 miles, 7/3.6=1.95 gallons, so 32.2 mils/gallon.

Terje


We're up to about $1.75 AUD / litre down here, ~ $6.63 / gallon. What
does petrol ("gasoline") cost in the US at the moment?

Fuel prices certainly make a trip to the snow more expensive for us (I'm
200km from the nearest x-country trails with "reliable" snow; and that's
_very_ close for an Aussie!), but the larger impact is on air travel.
For us to travel to better snow overseas is becoming increasingly
prohibitively expensive.

That, however, is probably a good thing.

The more expensive everything (transportation and the goods that have to
be transported) becomes, the more economic/financial pressure there is
to do the sensible thing and pursue better energy technologies and more
efficient use of what we have.

Unfortunately for skiing addicts, climate change is doubly evil...
there's going to be less and less reliable skiiable snow, and we're all
going to have to travel further to get to it.

Chris

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:02:25 +0200, Terje Mathisen
What you guys still don't get is that you are paying less than half of
what we do here in Europe!

Thanks, since I now know gas is more expensive in Europe than where I
live, I guess I shouldn't change my behaviour due to price increases
here.

Sorry, what I tried to say is that high gas prices is something people
get used to, just like we're used to paying twice as much for cars as
they do in most other countries.

130-180% import duties on all cars around here. :-(

Terje
--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

On Jul 9, 11:24*pm, "
wrote:
Do you expect to travel less to snow this winter? Global warming will
kill XC, but high oil prices may kill it even faster.

I've been wondering if the snowmobile crowd will be thinned out with
rising gas prices. Not only do they have BIG rigs to pull their
trailors, but they also burn gas (and oil) once they get to the snow.

The other impact will be the cost of grooming. It use to be something
like $80US per hour.

I do think the snow mobile community will feel the pinch harder for the
reasons you mention. Grooming will be impacted greatly. There are numerous
areas that groom with volunteers and donations, a doubling of fuel costs
will certainly have an impact. I also wonder about State Parks. Will state
accountants just say that grooming is too expensive? Or give them the same
fuel budget of 07/08 and find that in early Feb they have no fuel funds
left?

I am not quite as worried about people traveling to ski. As someone earlier
mentioned if you are driving something with decent mileage the impact will
not be as great. Maybe people will do 3 instead of 4 trips to the ski area
that is 120 miles away.

Communities that rely on snow visitors will feel the greatest pinch I think.
Die hard snow enthusiasts will still come but with high gas they will have
smaller restaurant and bar bills and probably stay two nights instead of
three.

Dave

wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 11:24 pm, "
wrote:
Do you expect to travel less to snow this winter? Global warming will
kill XC, but high oil prices may kill it even faster.

I've been wondering if the snowmobile crowd will be thinned out with
rising gas prices. Not only do they have BIG rigs to pull their
trailors, but they also burn gas (and oil) once they get to the snow.

The other impact will be the cost of grooming. It use to be something
like $80US per hour.

In article ,
Dave M-K wrote:
I do think the snow mobile community will feel the pinch harder for the
reasons you mention. Grooming will be impacted greatly.

From the people I've talked with that's probably going to be
the biggest impact, and there's something of a cascade
effect there because, at least around here, skiers who want
to use "groomed" trails outside of nordic centres, and dog
mushers, tend to use the trails groomed by the skidoo
clubs. Skidooers are tending to say that nothing will stop
them from riding but that they're more likely to ride
locally and a lot less likely to trailer.

Dog mushers are pretty much in the same boat. Maybe a
little moreso since mushers tend to be a little more on the
economic margins. Even training involves hauling for the
vast majority of people, usually in big-ass trucks.

Compounding the problem is that snow's getting a lot less
reliable and I'm having to drive more to find it. Last year
we had pretty much nothing but ice out where I am but on the
eastern side of the county they did have okay snow, so we
had to drive to get to it.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Are the typical driving distances the same in Europe and the States in
winter? Twin Cities to the Birkie is roughly 160 miles, and that's
fairly close. Summer traveling should take the biggest hit in the
States, tho I haven't seen the figures.

As for flying, I just made a United reservation for next season and
two bags, including a ski bag, is going to cost $40 more. That ski bag
used to go gratis.

Gene

Terje Mathisen wrote:
Sorry, what I tried to say is that high gas prices is something people
get used to, just like we're used to paying twice as much for cars as
they do in most other countries.

130-180% import duties on all cars around here. :-(

wrote:
Are the typical driving distances the same in Europe and the States in
winter? Twin Cities to the Birkie is roughly 160 miles, and that's

Oslo - Rena/Lillehammer is about 200 km (130 miles), Oslo-Rauland (our
ski cabin) is the same, but the roads are a lot hillier.

fairly close. Summer traveling should take the biggest hit in the
States, tho I haven't seen the figures.

As for flying, I just made a United reservation for next season and
two bags, including a ski bag, is going to cost $40 more. That ski bag
used to go gratis.

At least one airline is considering charging for total weight
(passenger+luggage), something that would make travel a lot cheaper for
xc skiers. :-)

Terje
(58 kg/130 pounds, constant since 1977)


Gene

Terje Mathisen wrote:
Sorry, what I tried to say is that high gas prices is something people
get used to, just like we're used to paying twice as much for cars as
they do in most other countries.

130-180% import duties on all cars around here. :-(


--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

From The Netherlands to the Alps is around 800km/500mi for a single trip.
Oddly, flying is now almost cheaper than driving, unless you have a fully occupied car.

With petrol at €1.70 or so ($3 almost), and even with the most fuel efficient station wagon I can find (looking to buy a Ford Focus), I'm looking at €200/$320 per round trip. And logding is really costly too. Too many riches in Europe, spending fortunes in winter wonderland.

Late last winter there were some mid-week days of god snow in the Northern part of Germany (Winterberg), but before the wekeend came, it was mostly gone. Winterberg is "only" 350km or so.

Looking to perhaps boost my career to be able to pay or one of the few things that still gets me grinning for ear to ear. Chill, silence, grace, pain.

Or, who has a good job for me in the Alps?

I am not quite as worried about people traveling to ski. As someone earlier
mentioned if you are driving something with decent mileage the impact will
not be as great. Maybe people will do 3 instead of 4 trips to the ski area
that is 120 miles away.

Last year I did find myself putting more effort into finding people to
carpool from Bay Area to the Sierras. It was worth it.

Now, is there a way to attach a pair of skis to a motorcycle/Vespa?
The other day I saw a guy on a sportbike on Ashbury/Haight with a
snowboard strapped to his back.