airbags for skiers?

According to this article, it will save lives.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...019841,00.html

"Sven Golly" wrote in message
...
"JQ" wrote in :

I doubt the air bag thing would work, it may make things even worse by
pushing you further under. The problem is when the snow gets over the
top of you pushes you down, the air bag wouldn't stop that from
happening.

You'd be wrong.

http://www.avalanche.org/~lsafc/TUTORIAL/EQUIP.HTM#BAG

--
Sven Golly
Trolling as usual
Remove "_" to reply

Just because someone is selling this item doesn't mean it will work as it
says. There are people that say if you get caught in an avalanche all you
need to do is swim and you won't get buried, I wouldn't count on it nor
would I count on the air bag system from keeping me a float either. The
only thing I would say the air bag would do is give me more wiggle room and
possibly more air if I got buried.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

"Sven Golly" wrote in message
...
"JQ" wrote in :

Just because someone is selling this item doesn't mean it will work as
it
says.

Did you read the part where they've actually had a number of people use
them and recover from avalanches?? The K2 Ball has also seen successful
recoveries from it's use.

--
Sven Golly
Trolling as usual
Remove "_" to reply

Yes, I read that. Anyone can make those type of claims without giving all
the details. Again there are many survivors claimed that swimming kept them
afloat, others have said it did nothing for them it all depends on the size
of the avalanche and at what point in the avalanche that they get caught in.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

Sven Golly wrote:


Did you read the part where they've actually had a number of people use
them and recover from avalanches?? The K2 Ball has also seen successful
recoveries from it's use.

Standard advertising techniques. Who says the airbag is why they were
saved? There have been many people caught in avalanches and ended up on
top and lived without the aid of such devices.

"Bob Lee" wrote in message
...
JQ wrote:

Sven Golly wrote:

JQ wrote:

I doubt the air bag thing would work, it may make things even worse
by
pushing you further under. The problem is when the snow gets over
the
top of you pushes you down, the air bag wouldn't stop that from
happening.

You'd be wrong.

http://www.avalanche.org/~lsafc/TUTORIAL/EQUIP.HTM#BAG

--
Sven Golly
Trolling as usual
Remove "_" to reply

Just because someone is selling this item doesn't mean it will work as
it
says. There are people that say if you get caught in an avalanche all
you
need to do is swim and you won't get buried, I wouldn't count on it nor
would I count on the air bag system from keeping me a float either. The
only thing I would say the air bag would do is give me more wiggle room
and
possibly more air if I got buried.

I dunno. Intuitively, it seems to me if you threw a beach ball in an
avalanche it would pop to the top. It would have been pretty easy to
test - think I'll look for some info...after dinner.

Bob

A beach ball with a person attached to it will be a totally different thing.
A beach ball would bounce and can float in the air not like an air bag
attached to a person.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

"Bob Lee" wrote in message
...
JQ wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:

JQ wrote:

Sven Golly wrote:

JQ wrote:

I doubt the air bag thing would work, it may make things even
worse
by
pushing you further under. The problem is when the snow gets
over
the
top of you pushes you down, the air bag wouldn't stop that from
happening.

You'd be wrong.

http://www.avalanche.org/~lsafc/TUTORIAL/EQUIP.HTM#BAG

--
Sven Golly
Trolling as usual
Remove "_" to reply

Just because someone is selling this item doesn't mean it will work
as
it
says. There are people that say if you get caught in an avalanche
all
you
need to do is swim and you won't get buried, I wouldn't count on it
nor
would I count on the air bag system from keeping me a float either.
The
only thing I would say the air bag would do is give me more wiggle
room
and
possibly more air if I got buried.

I dunno. Intuitively, it seems to me if you threw a beach ball in an
avalanche it would pop to the top. It would have been pretty easy to
test - think I'll look for some info...after dinner.

Bob

A beach ball with a person attached to it will be a totally different
thing.
A beach ball would bounce and can float in the air not like an air bag
attached to a person.

I tried to politely say "you should look it up" but since you didn't
take the hint:
http://tinyurl.com/47pu3

Where the Davos Institute found that "every single inflated airbag was
visible on the surface of the avalanche," and "Among these proven
methods the Avalanche-Airbag currently offers the best possibilities of
avalanche survival."

I'll let you translate this one:
http://tinyurl.com/524k6

Bob

OK Bob,
I read the review and see that the air bags may make it easier for some one
to find you if you get buried less than 4 feet deep because the air bags
will still be visible. The survey is not complete without showing the rates
of survival and injury of others caught in an avalanche on a larger basis.
As with this survey, there were some faulty air bags and even a death and
completely buried person with a completely inflated airbag. Using this
sampling as scientific, a ball that is tethered to your waist with a 2 foot
long line may do just as well if not better (2 foot long so it won't end up
wrapping around your neck). I can see that the air bag could help in
finding you if you did get buried, since time is of essence. I still don't
see how it will keep you afloat and the review doesn't really prove this
either.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

"Sven Golly" wrote in message
...
Bob Lee wrote in news:rlee-168CE4.18265530012005
@individual.net:

I'll let you translate this one:
http://tinyurl.com/524k6

Allow me into Swedish...

Zeese-a tests prufe-a thet eur begs vurk und thet JQ is fooll ooff hut
eur.
Bork, bork, bork.

--
Sven Golly
Trolling as usual
Remove "_" to reply

"JQ" wrote in message
...

"Sven Golly" wrote in message
...
Bob Lee wrote in news:rlee-168CE4.18265530012005
@individual.net:

I'll let you translate this one:
http://tinyurl.com/524k6

Allow me into Swedish...

Zeese-a tests prufe-a thet eur begs vurk und thet JQ is fooll ooff hut
eur.
Bork, bork, bork.

--
Sven Golly
Trolling as usual
Remove "_" to reply

Sorry about the empty reply.
Now the test doesn't prove the air bags work, what it does prove there is a
definite inflation problem I would say 1 in 8 is a problem. Now it was over
the years listed and things since then could have been corrected. It
doesn't say anything about me but I can say the same thing about you if you
believe 1 in 8 is good odds of properly inflated air bags!

JQ
Dancing on the edge

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:12:09 -0500, "JQ" wrote:



OK Bob,
I read the review and see that the air bags may make it easier for some one
to find you if you get buried less than 4 feet deep because the air bags
will still be visible. The survey is not complete without showing the rates
of survival and injury of others caught in an avalanche on a larger basis.
As with this survey, there were some faulty air bags and even a death and
completely buried person with a completely inflated airbag. Using this
sampling as scientific, a ball that is tethered to your waist with a 2 foot
long line may do just as well if not better (2 foot long so it won't end up
wrapping around your neck). I can see that the air bag could help in
finding you if you did get buried, since time is of essence. I still don't
see how it will keep you afloat and the review doesn't really prove this
either.


Without trying to pretend that I know anything, isn't it simple
displacement? Assume that avalanching snow flows acts a bit like
water. If you are displacing enough volume for your weight, you
should wind up at the top of the snow flow. The theory I would
forward would be that once it stops, it stops acting like water, but
you are hopefully close enough to the top to be rescued, or self
rescue.

Anyway, the airbag thing makes sense to me, and the limited studies
done so far seem to back this up.

nate

"Bob Lee" wrote in message
...
uglymoney wrote:

JQ wrote:

OK Bob,
I read the review and see that the air bags may make it easier for some
one
to find you if you get buried less than 4 feet deep because the air
bags
will still be visible. The survey is not complete without showing the
rates
of survival and injury of others caught in an avalanche on a larger
basis.
As with this survey, there were some faulty air bags and even a death
and
completely buried person with a completely inflated airbag. Using this
sampling as scientific, a ball that is tethered to your waist with a 2
foot
long line may do just as well if not better (2 foot long so it won't
end up
wrapping around your neck). I can see that the air bag could help in
finding you if you did get buried, since time is of essence. I still
don't
see how it will keep you afloat and the review doesn't really prove
this
either.


Without trying to pretend that I know anything, isn't it simple
displacement? Assume that avalanching snow flows acts a bit like
water.

Your assumption about avalanches being fluid is correct:
http://tinyurl.com/496uk

If you are displacing enough volume for your weight, you
should wind up at the top of the snow flow. The theory I would
forward would be that once it stops, it stops acting like water, but
you are hopefully close enough to the top to be rescued, or self
rescue.

Right-o.

Anyway, the airbag thing makes sense to me, and the limited studies
done so far seem to back this up.

JQ's got some issues with the bag that I can't figure out. As tested,
it obviously worked a lot more often than not (7 out of 8 times?) and he
wants comprehensive fatality figures, even though the thing's new, but
the dummy tests seem pretty useful to me. shrug

I wonder if JQ wears a helmet. Talk about an over-rated, under-tested
piece of equipment.

Bob

I do not have any issues with the bag, I don't believe it to be the end all
safety gear in an avalanche. The thing isn't that new and if I was to be
out in the avalanche prone area I would probably wear one or something
similar to it. Not that I would believe it would keep me at the top of the
slide but I would be easier to find if caught in the slide. And yes I do
wear a helmet while skiing and can attest to it prevent some damage to my
head. I also wear a helmet when I driving a motorcycle, bicycle, inline
skating, contact sparring in karate and any other time I deem it necessary
in preventing head injury.

JQ
Dancing on the edge