OFF PISTE FOR BEGGINERS

pete devlin wrote:
In message , "David Brown )"
writes

You could always try some powder next to the pistes, just don't be
tempted to stray too far and lean back a little more.


I was told this to start with and think it is nonsense. Leaning back
just hurts your legs. Centre of the ski is where the weight should be,
and also distributed equally between the skis.

You're obviously a better a skier than me then :-) Leaning back I can't
stay upright for long enough to hurt my legs. It's just like you Ace
say, it's all weight distribution.

There's two things going here I suspect, one is a slight optical
illusion when watching people skiing powder that leads the observer to
think they're leaning back and the second, is the people who've
genuinely put enough time in practicing staying upright in that
position. In the same way they ski in the Arlberg and France on piste
with the legs bolted together and arms waving around, it takes a lot of
practice and it can be done if you really want but what's the point?

Ian

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:15:36 +0100, Ian Spare
wrote:

pete devlin wrote:
In message , "David Brown )"
writes

You could always try some powder next to the pistes, just don't be
tempted to stray too far and lean back a little more.


I was told this to start with and think it is nonsense. Leaning back
just hurts your legs. Centre of the ski is where the weight should be,
and also distributed equally between the skis.

You're obviously a better a skier than me then :-) Leaning back I can't
stay upright for long enough to hurt my legs. It's just like you Ace
say, it's all weight distribution.

There's two things going here I suspect, one is a slight optical
illusion when watching people skiing powder that leads the observer to
think they're leaning back and the second, is the people who've
genuinely put enough time in practicing staying upright in that
position.

Yes, and yes. Although again the latter is more a question of lifting
the ski tips than actually being further back on the skis, although
there's an element of that too.

In the same way they ski in the Arlberg and France on piste
with the legs bolted together and arms waving around, it takes a lot of
practice and it can be done if you really want but what's the point?

It's great fun! And done properly in powder should not have arms
flailing around. It's actually a very different technique from the
'bum skiing' you describe, noteably as the skis are level at tip and
tail, rather than one being forward of the other. This actually helps
in deeper powder, as it means you can keep your skis together as a
single platform, which in powder is a_good_thing.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:49:29 +0000 (UTC), "David Brown \)"
wrote:

Thanks for the response all judging by the general concensus, ill be
steering clear of Off-Piste, at least this year anyhow.

You could always try some powder next to the pistes, just don't be tempted
to stray too far and lean back a little more.


At Kitzbuehel, just a few meters off the pistes one finds lines of
fenceposts in places. You don't want to catch an edge and land on one
of those. At least they take the wires down in the winter.

At Westendorf I was skiing through powder just a few meters off the
edge of an easy section of a red piste. There were a series of
gradual rolls. As I went over the third or fourth one, I was
surprised to discover a deep hole with a stream at the bottom on the
other side. Fortunately I'm a good skier and had plenty of speed
because I was able to jump and clear it. A lesser skier would have
ended up taking a very wet and cold bath.

So even skiing a few meters off-piste has risks...

In message , Ian Spare
writes
You're obviously a better a skier than me then :-) Leaning back I can't
stay upright for long enough to hurt my legs.

Probably not. I'm just big, strong and stupid enough to persevere even
when it hurts. Strangely enough, even though I know better, when I find
myself on a "scary" slope in crud, the same feeling in my legs comes
back. This is probably an indication that my arse is hanging out and I
am reverting to survival skiing!
--
Pete Devlin (To email - press reply, remove Garbage Sifter)
[{//////news03//////at\\\\\secondrow/////co\\\\\uk}]
Lossiemouth RUFC http://www.lossiemouth-rufc.co.uk
Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.

pete devlin wrote:
In message , Ian Spare
writes

You're obviously a better a skier than me then :-) Leaning back I
can't stay upright for long enough to hurt my legs.


Probably not. I'm just big, strong and stupid enough to persevere even

I used to be big, strong and stupid but nowadays I'm only managing two
out three.

when it hurts. Strangely enough, even though I know better, when I find
myself on a "scary" slope in crud, the same feeling in my legs comes
back. This is probably an indication that my arse is hanging out and I
am reverting to survival skiing!

You mean sitting back again ? Most people do, it's often instinctive
vertigo, as the terrain gets more problematic people tend to start to
'back away', it's compounded by looking at the tips of the skis as well
and the reflex becomes to lean back.

Ian

Ian Spare wrote in news:c2phoq$1v053n$1@ID-
118111.news.uni-berlin.de:

pete devlin wrote:
In message , "David Brown )"
writes

You could always try some powder next to the pistes, just don't be
tempted to stray too far and lean back a little more.


I was told this to start with and think it is nonsense. Leaning back
just hurts your legs. Centre of the ski is where the weight should be,
and also distributed equally between the skis.

You're obviously a better a skier than me then :-) Leaning back I can't
stay upright for long enough to hurt my legs. It's just like you Ace
say, it's all weight distribution.

There's two things going here I suspect, one is a slight optical
illusion when watching people skiing powder that leads the observer to
think they're leaning back and the second, is the people who've
genuinely put enough time in practicing staying upright in that
position. In the same way they ski in the Arlberg and France on piste
with the legs bolted together and arms waving around, it takes a lot of
practice and it can be done if you really want but what's the point?

Agreed about the optical illusion, sort of; if the snow is deep enough
your skis may not be parallel to the slope as you turn, as your speed
keeps the tips up even if your weight is centred.

Another couple of exceptions: it can be fun in powder to keep your weight
deliberately back and turn on the tails of the skis - this is hard on the
thigh muscles, but rather entertaining. And in heavy powder you may need
to have your weight a bit back at the beginning of the turn to get the
tips out - your weight comes back over the center as you steer the turn.

Generally, though, no; don't lean back.

NB: All this IME only. IANAPSIAn or anything similar. You read it on
Usenet.

Jeremy

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:29 GMT, David wrote:


At Westendorf I was skiing through powder just a few meters off the
edge of an easy section of a red piste. There were a series of
gradual rolls. As I went over the third or fourth one, I was
surprised to discover a deep hole with a stream at the bottom on the
other side. Fortunately I'm a good skier and had plenty of speed
because I was able to jump and clear it. A lesser skier would have
ended up taking a very wet and cold bath.

So even skiing a few meters off-piste has risks...


Oh yes streams, reminds me of Feldberg a few weeks ago where I jumped
the hidden stream but I didn't clear it. Luckily for me my arms dug
into the deep powder on the bank, my legs dangled perilously but I
didnt lose my (brand new) skis - managed to climb up to the amusement
of those passing on the pull lift.

You forgot to mention damaging skis when landing on the stony bottom,
losing the ski if the brakes are not effective in the stream and how
cold you could be for the rest of the day in wet clothes.

I will resume off piste when I have perfected my short swings.

B

FWIW we had an almost perfect day in Laax for learning off-piste. 20 to 30
cms new snow sitting on prepared piste with no wind blowing it about. For a
first or second attempt it was an ideal situation.

Tomorrow is the start of Spring weather - it will start to get very host.
--
Simon Brown
www.hb9drv.ch

"Desmond Forde" wrote in message

I will resume off piste when I have perfected my short swings.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:13:00 +0100, Ace wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:07:58 +0000, Jim Hutton
wrote:

Austrian ski instructors are the best in the world IMHO.

How long ago did you form that opinion? In recent years I've heard
horror stories about some Austrian instructors still trying to teach
by numbers. e.g. 'adopt the ice position for this run'.

IMNSHO the best place for native english speakers to learn is Soldeu,
Andorra, where there's a huge number of British (and ossie, kiwi,
etc.) instructors working to a very high standard.

Yeah, sure, if you want the ex-pat experience. IMVHO the Austrian
system which has locals teaching in their own village can't be beaten,
especially for off-piste.

Jim

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:17:24 +0000, Jim Hutton
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:13:00 +0100, Ace wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:07:58 +0000, Jim Hutton
wrote:

Austrian ski instructors are the best in the world IMHO.

How long ago did you form that opinion? In recent years I've heard
horror stories about some Austrian instructors still trying to teach
by numbers. e.g. 'adopt the ice position for this run'.

IMNSHO the best place for native english speakers to learn is Soldeu,
Andorra, where there's a huge number of British (and ossie, kiwi,
etc.) instructors working to a very high standard.

Yeah, sure, if you want the ex-pat experience. IMVHO the Austrian
system which has locals teaching in their own village can't be beaten,
especially for off-piste.

I was talking about learning to ski - i.e. a first/second time thing.
Plus, and I know you'll disagree, BASI and similar instructors are all
kept very much up-to-date, which means that a) their teaching is
better and b) it's much more consistent between instructors.

I duggest you talk to people who've learnt, or are learning to ski, in
the last couple of years, on modern equipment, and compare notes.

And as for 'ex-pat' experience - just how rare are brits in St. Anton
anyway?

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.