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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe, Vermont
It's hard to tell yet whether any of the Trapp trails (such as
the Haul Road, which is one of their main trails) would be ruined by the planned development. Most of the damage would likely be to the relatively under- utilized trails, controlled by Topnotch but seldom groomed, that go downhill from the Haul Road. The new road would necessarily cross the Catamount Trail as well as the route for the Stowe Derby. So much for Johannes von Trapp's legacy as a conservationist and skier. Lew Lasher Cambridge, Massachusetts and Stowe, Vermont Trapps plans 50 lots on Adams land 513-acre development would include Trapp-Mt. Co. road By Pete Hartt The Trapp Family Lodge plans to subdivide 513 acres above the Ranch Camp Valley and along the Haul Road into 50 residential lots, lodge owner Johannes von Trapp disclosed this week. The proposed development includes a new road linking Trapp Family Lodge to Stowe Mountain Resort, roughly along what is now the Haul Road. The proposal is among the largest residential developments in Stowe’s history, along with the Robinson Springs subdivision off Edson Hill Road, and Stowe Mountain Resort’s $300 million project currently underway. The Trapp’s project, currently in the design stages, is being carried out on a parcel of land purchased from George F. Adams Co. in 1998 by von Trapp. The proposed road would go from Luce Hill Road, proceed somewhat parallel to Route 108, along the edge of the ridge down into Ranch Valley, serving the 50 proposed house sites along the way, and coming out near the current location of the Stowe Mountain Resort Ski Touring Center. Discussions have been held with Stowe Mountain resort officials, and there is an agreement in principal on running the road through the touring center property, von Trapp said. In all, the new road will be about three miles long. Von Trapp hopes to get the plan permitted, locally and at the state’s Act 250 level, sometime this summer, and begin working on it within a year. Von Trapp did not disclose cost estimates for the road and other infrastructure. The proposed development is somewhat at odds with statements von Trapp and others made at the time of the $800,000 purchase of the property when he said he intended to leave the parcel wild. “I honestly don’t remember what I said at the time,” von Trapp said in an interview this week. “It was not my intention to develop the property. When I took over the title of president in 1969, I set a goal of buying most of the land that our trails were on, to control what went on on the property.” In a story in the July 9, 1998, Stowe Reporter, von Trapp was quoted as saying that he would “...like to keep it (the property) wild.” Olivier Garrett, then the general manager of the Adam’s Co., said in the story that: “Part of the (reason for selling to Trapps) was the feeling that the land was likely to remain as it was.” Despite those comments, Bill Adams, who was on the board of the now-defunct company, said his family had no expectations that the property would not be developed at some point. “To my recollection there was nothing promised,” Adams said. “The sale was not based on any promise. We sold the land based on there being a legitimate offer with legitimate financial backing.” Adams noted that the land had previously come very close to being sold (in the early 1990s) for the purpose of development, but an inability for the buyer to get the necessary permits caused the deal to fall through. “I think that some family members hoped that by selling the property to Johannes (von Trapp), it might be preserved,” Adams said. “But my father (Curtis Adams) had told me years before, when we were out hunting, that I should enjoy it, because it wouldn’t be there forever.” According to von Trapp, efforts to sell the development rights to the property to the Vermont Land Trust were unsuccessful. Eventually, other factors led to the decision to develop. One of the factors cited by von Trapp was the delay in bringing the expanded sewer plant on line, which pushed back other development on the Trapp Family Lodge property. “If I could have developed the villas five years earlier I might not have had to develop the Adams land,” von Trapp said. “The delay of the sewer project has cost a lot.” The new development will likely use about 60 percent of the 513 acre Adams property, and von Trapp expects to conserve the remaining 200 or so acres and split that land into two parcels on either side of the development. When the land was purchased it increased the size of the Trapp landholdings from nearly 2,200 acres to 2,700 acres. The lots in the proposed development are expected to range in size from three to 12 acres. Lots of those sizes are currently selling anywhere from 150,000 to $400,000, with the median price of an acre at almost $30,000. At those kinds of prices total sales could exceed $15 million. “The price (of lots) will be in line with the great increase in land prices in Stowe,” von Trapp said. “They are not going to be ‘ski out to the lift’ types of sites, with the prices those can command, but they will carry a premium price.” The entire project will have to be approved by Stowe’s Development Review Board as well as the state’s Act 250 panel and von Trapp expects permit applications to be filed later this summer. Copyrighted Stowe Reporter 2004 |
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#2
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe,Vermont
I recall that one could ski from Stowe Mtn x-c ski center to Trapp's.
Is that going to obliterated? Gene Lew Lasher wrote: It's hard to tell yet whether any of the Trapp trails (such as the Haul Road, which is one of their main trails) would be ruined by the planned development. Most of the damage would likely be to the relatively under- utilized trails, controlled by Topnotch but seldom groomed, that go downhill from the Haul Road. The new road would necessarily cross the Catamount Trail as well as the route for the Stowe Derby. So much for Johannes von Trapp's legacy as a conservationist and skier. Lew Lasher Cambridge, Massachusetts and Stowe, Vermont Trapps plans 50 lots on Adams land 513-acre development would include Trapp-Mt. Co. road By Pete Hartt The Trapp Family Lodge plans to subdivide 513 acres above the Ranch Camp Valley and along the Haul Road into 50 residential lots, lodge owner Johannes von Trapp disclosed this week. The proposed development includes a new road linking Trapp Family Lodge to Stowe Mountain Resort, roughly along what is now the Haul Road. The proposal is among the largest residential developments in Stowe’s history, along with the Robinson Springs subdivision off Edson Hill Road, and Stowe Mountain Resort’s $300 million project currently underway. The Trapp’s project, currently in the design stages, is being carried out on a parcel of land purchased from George F. Adams Co. in 1998 by von Trapp. The proposed road would go from Luce Hill Road, proceed somewhat parallel to Route 108, along the edge of the ridge down into Ranch Valley, serving the 50 proposed house sites along the way, and coming out near the current location of the Stowe Mountain Resort Ski Touring Center. Discussions have been held with Stowe Mountain resort officials, and there is an agreement in principal on running the road through the touring center property, von Trapp said. In all, the new road will be about three miles long. Von Trapp hopes to get the plan permitted, locally and at the state’s Act 250 level, sometime this summer, and begin working on it within a year. Von Trapp did not disclose cost estimates for the road and other infrastructure. The proposed development is somewhat at odds with statements von Trapp and others made at the time of the $800,000 purchase of the property when he said he intended to leave the parcel wild. “I honestly don’t remember what I said at the time,” von Trapp said in an interview this week. “It was not my intention to develop the property. When I took over the title of president in 1969, I set a goal of buying most of the land that our trails were on, to control what went on on the property.” In a story in the July 9, 1998, Stowe Reporter, von Trapp was quoted as saying that he would “...like to keep it (the property) wild.” Olivier Garrett, then the general manager of the Adam’s Co., said in the story that: “Part of the (reason for selling to Trapps) was the feeling that the land was likely to remain as it was.” Despite those comments, Bill Adams, who was on the board of the now-defunct company, said his family had no expectations that the property would not be developed at some point. “To my recollection there was nothing promised,” Adams said. “The sale was not based on any promise. We sold the land based on there being a legitimate offer with legitimate financial backing.” Adams noted that the land had previously come very close to being sold (in the early 1990s) for the purpose of development, but an inability for the buyer to get the necessary permits caused the deal to fall through. “I think that some family members hoped that by selling the property to Johannes (von Trapp), it might be preserved,” Adams said. “But my father (Curtis Adams) had told me years before, when we were out hunting, that I should enjoy it, because it wouldn’t be there forever.” According to von Trapp, efforts to sell the development rights to the property to the Vermont Land Trust were unsuccessful. Eventually, other factors led to the decision to develop. One of the factors cited by von Trapp was the delay in bringing the expanded sewer plant on line, which pushed back other development on the Trapp Family Lodge property. “If I could have developed the villas five years earlier I might not have had to develop the Adams land,” von Trapp said. “The delay of the sewer project has cost a lot.” The new development will likely use about 60 percent of the 513 acre Adams property, and von Trapp expects to conserve the remaining 200 or so acres and split that land into two parcels on either side of the development. When the land was purchased it increased the size of the Trapp landholdings from nearly 2,200 acres to 2,700 acres. The lots in the proposed development are expected to range in size from three to 12 acres. Lots of those sizes are currently selling anywhere from 150,000 to $400,000, with the median price of an acre at almost $30,000. At those kinds of prices total sales could exceed $15 million. “The price (of lots) will be in line with the great increase in land prices in Stowe,” von Trapp said. “They are not going to be ‘ski out to the lift’ types of sites, with the prices those can command, but they will carry a premium price.” The entire project will have to be approved by Stowe’s Development Review Board as well as the state’s Act 250 panel and von Trapp expects permit applications to be filed later this summer. Copyrighted Stowe Reporter 2004 |
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe,Vermont
I recall that one could ski from Stowe Mtn x-c ski center to Trapp's.
Is that going to obliterated? That trail, Ranch Camp, should be unaffected, as it is well to the northwest of and above the proposed development. In fact, the only really popular trail that could be affected is the lower Haul Road, depending on where the new road would be built. As for the Stowe Derby, well, they already have to shovel snow and stop traffic so that the race can cross VT route 108 and another street, so what's one more road crossing. This isn't the first time that Johannes von Trapp has placed real estate ambitions ahead of skiing. This past season they messed up the Luce trail (the continuation of the clockwise loop from the lower Haul Road) for construction of the new luxury timeshare buildings. What is especially appalling is that, in the article I posted, he tries to weasel out of his past statements about preserving the land by blaming the town for not building the municipal sewer earlier, and claiming that, because he couldn't get the timeshares up sooner, he "had to" engage in the new $15 million project. What a nasty, greedy lout he has become. Lew Lasher Cambridge, Massachusetts and Stowe, Vermont |
#4
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe, Vermont
What is especially appalling is that, in the article I posted, he tries to
weasel out of his past statements about preserving the land by blaming the town for not building the municipal sewer earlier, and claiming that, because he couldn't get the timeshares up sooner, he "had to" engage in the new $15 million project. What a nasty, greedy lout he has become. That's kind of harsh. My family is part of a land partnership in Maine. That partnership finds itself doing things it would rather not in order to keep the larger portion of the land undeveloped. In essence, a gravel pit operation allows us to pay the taxes on the rest of the land. We do not post the land. In fact we post signs encouraging people to hike, hunt, snowmachine, and ice-climb on our land, among other things. The thanks we get is that people leave truckloads of trash on our property, even while they are recreating on it. It is very possible...possible, I said... that this 15 million dollar project on the Trapps part will keep the greater operation alive. I suspect that selling trail tickets to people like us in Subarus is not that profitable. But calling someone a "nasty greedy lout" for running a ski operation and doing what he wants with HIS money on HIS land within the law...that's uncalled for. If everybody who ****es and moans about what developers do to "our" land would pony up and make it worth developers while to leave things undeveloped, the argument would be solved. But that will never happen. The Nature Conservancy is about the only outfit that puts their money where their mouth is. But I'm sure I'll hear why I'm wrong. Shmo |
#5
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe, Vermont
Hi Eric-
I do ecological restoration as part of my job, which usually involves acquiring land and/or getting conservation easements for long term habitat use (often with recreational use, also). Your post is a very elonquent description of what life is like for the landowner who has desires to keep land undeveloped, and who is trying to do that to the extent possible without going broke while doing it. I wish everyone who has the urge to take extreme positions such as calling someone on the other side a "nasty, greedy lout" (often understandable due to frustration, previous bad experiences, etc., but often totally unjustified in any sense), would slow down and think about what might be going on for the person who will get kicked by their knee-jerk reflex. Calling people names (so that they change their minds and decide that preserving land and access is a thankless task) is only going to prove the axiom that "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished." What often happens is that either a) the people just sell their land to a developer and get the hell out, or b) go over to "the other side" and develop with a vengence because they have been so wounded by their supposed friends and supporters. good luck keeping your land open- I hope you and your family can keep your strength and resolve in the face of the arrogant selfishness of the few. Chris Cline SLC, UT --- Eric Shmo Chandler wrote: What is especially appalling is that, in the article I posted, he tries to weasel out of his past statements about preserving the land by blaming the town for not building the municipal sewer earlier, and claiming that, because he couldn't get the timeshares up sooner, he "had to" engage in the new $15 million project. What a nasty, greedy lout he has become. That's kind of harsh. My family is part of a land partnership in Maine. That partnership finds itself doing things it would rather not in order to keep the larger portion of the land undeveloped. In essence, a gravel pit operation allows us to pay the taxes on the rest of the land. We do not post the land. In fact we post signs encouraging people to hike, hunt, snowmachine, and ice-climb on our land, among other things. The thanks we get is that people leave truckloads of trash on our property, even while they are recreating on it. It is very possible...possible, I said... that this 15 million dollar project on the Trapps part will keep the greater operation alive. I suspect that selling trail tickets to people like us in Subarus is not that profitable. But calling someone a "nasty greedy lout" for running a ski operation and doing what he wants with HIS money on HIS land within the law...that's uncalled for. If everybody who ****es and moans about what developers do to "our" land would pony up and make it worth developers while to leave things undeveloped, the argument would be solved. But that will never happen. The Nature Conservancy is about the only outfit that puts their money where their mouth is. But I'm sure I'll hear why I'm wrong. Shmo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com |
#6
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe,Vermont
It is very possible...possible, I said... that this 15 million dollar
project on the Trapps part will keep the greater operation alive. I suspect that selling trail tickets to people like us in Subarus is not that profitable. But calling someone a "nasty greedy lout" for running a ski operation and doing what he wants with HIS money on HIS land within the law...that's uncalled for. Let me be clear why I called Johannes von Trapp a "nasty, greedy lout." It's not particularly because he chooses to subdivide his land to make a huge profit. I don't begrudge anyone to do what they wish with their own property. It's because he made public statements when he bought the property, holding himself out as a conservationist, and then ... forgot what he had said. It's because he blames the town for his change of plans, rather than just saying that he changed his mind and decided to make several million dollars of profit because he feels like it. It's because he says that he "has to". Now, of course, I haven't audited his books, but I sincerely doubt that he is in financial distress. I agree that the cross-country ski business is not particularly profitable; it is a sideline to his successful hotel business. (The Trapp Family Lodge is the second highest-rated and most famous hotel in Stowe, which is the biggest resort town in Vermont.) Several years ago, I would have believed that he needed the money, because he owed a considerable sum to his relatives whose share of the business he had bought out for control of the hotel empire. So he added a big new wing onto the hotel, renovated some of the less desirable parts of the old hotel, and cultivated convention business for the hotel. More recently, he added on a set of luxury timeshares. So far as I can tell, he is a smart businessman. It's quite possible that he's losing money on some of his business ventures, although I doubt that. But he is not subsisting on a woodlot and gravel pit. More to the point: I would be more sympathetic if it were the case that one of his business ventures didn't work out as well as he had hoped, regardless of whether this was his own fault or bad luck. I don't begrudge him for taking chances in business, I would not begrudge him if sometimes those chances were to fail, and I would not begrudge him for trying to bounce back from a business failure. Quite the contrary: I admired him for bouncing back and reinvesting in the hotel after the collosal loss in court to his relatives, just as his family bounced back after losing their European fortune by famously reinventing themselves in America. So, if he had said: I took a gamble with the high-end timeshares, and it didn't work out as well as I would have liked, so I regretfully have to go back on what I said I wanted to do with the other property, then I would have respected him. But, instead, he says, the town screwed up, and now I "have to" go for this big quick profit, and, I can't even remember saying anything about conserving the property. That lacks credibility, and it has cost him my respect. Lew Lasher Cambridge, Massachusetts and Stowe, Vermont |
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe, Vermont
to" go for this big quick profit, and, I can't even remember saying anything about
conserving the property. That lacks credibility, and it has cost him my respect. Lew Lasher Cambridge, Massachusetts and Stowe, Vermont Now that's more like it. This is a lot different than name calling. And, like you said, you haven't seen his books. Thought provoking anyway. Shmo |
#8
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe, Vermont
"Lew Lasher" wrote in message ... Let me be clear why I called Johannes von Trapp a "nasty, greedy lout." It's because he made public statements when he bought the property, holding himself out as a conservationist, .... Around here, we call "conservationists" people who already own land and a house in the country. Gary Jacobson Rosendale, NY AKA Gary the Snail, and definitely a conservationist no matter how you define the term. |
#9
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe,Vermont
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Trapp plans housing development, road across XC trails in Stowe,Vermont
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