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Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 18th 04, 01:22 AM
Bob
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds


"Alex Kwan" wrote in message
The strain is in upper leg, centered above the knee (lower

quad).. I'll try
and adjust the highback and try some of the technique changes

you guys
mentioned! I think I may be putting too much weight on my back

leg and
trying to twist my knees when turning..


Are you riding with your weight on the back leg to maintain the
carve? You might try moving your bindings back if that is the
case.

Bob


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  #12  
Old February 18th 04, 11:01 AM
phil
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds

No, no, no, no, and no. Did I say no?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

To say that any experimentation with stance is verboten seems to be to
be a little blinkered to say the least. Saying it multiple times makes
me wonder what you're so excited about. Relax and try to explain
yourself: shouting and repetition don't help.

Your personal set-up is unlikely to be ideal for everyone. That is why
bindings are adjustable.

Many people I see trying to ride duck "at high speeds" clearly sorely
need the benefit of your advice... perhaps you'd like to explain a bit
more about how you achieve this with your stance?
  #13  
Old February 18th 04, 12:24 PM
copek
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds


"phil" wrote in message
om...
No, no, no, no, and no. Did I say no?


The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

To say that any experimentation with stance is verboten seems to be to
be a little blinkered to say the least. Saying it multiple times makes
me wonder what you're so excited about. Relax and try to explain
yourself: shouting and repetition don't help.

Your personal set-up is unlikely to be ideal for everyone. That is why
bindings are adjustable.

Many people I see trying to ride duck "at high speeds" clearly sorely
need the benefit of your advice... perhaps you'd like to explain a bit
more about how you achieve this with your stance?


this works for me ....

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti... threadid=1135


  #14  
Old February 19th 04, 01:40 PM
Edmunde Lee
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds

this works for me ....

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti... threadid=1135



My feet are too damn big to have such low angles.. =(

There's no way I could carve like that... at least not without
creating a gigantic trench with my hooves in the process.
  #15  
Old February 19th 04, 03:44 PM
copek
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds

how big is big?

mine aren't exactly small at a UK10 - they just fit on a custom with 18 -6.

how about a wide board, risers etc. lots of talk of that in the archives i
think ...

also the salomon F-series are designed to give a smaller overall shellsize
than normal boots by integrating the liner/shell or something. basically
means that bigger size feet can go on normal width boards. i tried on a
pair of F24s and they we're pretty stiff. nice boots, too expensive for me
though ...



"Edmunde Lee" wrote in message
om...
this works for me ....


http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti... threadid=1135


My feet are too damn big to have such low angles.. =(

There's no way I could carve like that... at least not without
creating a gigantic trench with my hooves in the process.



  #16  
Old February 19th 04, 07:17 PM
Edmunde Lee
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds

"copek" wrote in message ...
how big is big?

mine aren't exactly small at a UK10 - they just fit on a custom with 18 -6.

how about a wide board, risers etc. lots of talk of that in the archives i
think ...

also the salomon F-series are designed to give a smaller overall shellsize
than normal boots by integrating the liner/shell or something. basically
means that bigger size feet can go on normal width boards. i tried on a
pair of F24s and they we're pretty stiff. nice boots, too expensive for me
though ...


Size 14 US (thought they were 15) Burton Motos... Ride a Salomon
Regulate 168, it's a wider board than most... I still can't get away
with those low angles =( Believe me, I'd like to if I could...

I use Burton Elevators as well (raisers).

I still think a more forward stance would be more suitable for
carving, although, of course, it's no doubt possible to carve in
nearly any stance.. What ever feels right, I guess, roll with it.
  #17  
Old February 27th 04, 07:14 AM
Sharkie
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds

"Mike T" wrote in message . ..
Sharkie, I'd like to hear some details on how you are doing this!


Su practice

Actually it boils down to 3 movements:

1) pull the board sharply under you towards your rear leg. This way
your
weight will be more on the front foot,
2) flex your knees. I mean really sink down low,
3) and edge your board. Edge it high, as close to 90 degrees as you
can
(either toe or heel side depending which turn you do).

Now these movements have to be done simultaneously, and when your
board
is pointing sideways (perpendicular to the fall line). Also you need
to be perfectly aligned, any twist might result in a slam, specially
on the heelside. During the toe side turn, your knees should almost
touch the snow.

This will result in a very powerful carved turn. In a split second
(or so it will feel) you will do a full C-shaped turn, and you're
ready
for the next one.

When you start doing it this way, most likely you will fall inside
the turn because the turning momentum will be so high, but after a
while
you learn how to balance it.

Also, during the turn extend your legs, and shift slightly backwards.
This will prepare you again for the next turn.

It's actually easier to show it than to just describe it, but hey,
maybe we'll meet one day, who knows...

Now, to address your other points:

But on steeper terrain, I usually see them skidding every few turns to
scrub speed, or even carving toeside, skidding heel.


A lot of freestyle/freeride riders are not great carvers. Not because
lack of skill to learn it, but rather as a choice of riding style.
Carving is after all perfecting the turn, and not everyone chooses
to do it. And equipment plays a role too: freestyle/ride boards being
softer and having shorter effective edge will feel unstable after
exceeding certain speed. I know because I pushed my board (freeride)
to the limit, going at a speed where I couldn't hold an edge in a
stable
way anymore. Had to slow down slightly by skidding, and I know I would
be able to keep it up on the carving board.

So in this case I say it's the equipment and riding style that's the
main
reasons. Not everyone is a speed freak after all, and if you don't
practice
on steeper terrain (by staying in the park mostly), the additional
speed
will feel uncomfortable.

They also seem to
have trouble carving different radius turns... they pretty much carve
all one radius.


It's a technique thing. Sometimes riders carve, but don't know exactly
how it's happening, and if you ask them to change their radius it's
a problem. If you do the power carves mentioned above, you can easily
increase your radius by less flex and edging. And if you want more
open
turns (less C-shape) change your edges pointing more down (as opposed
to sideways).

A more forward stance allows one to drop the hip into the turn which
puts a lot of power into the turn, flexing the board harder, and making
a tighter turn. I can see how a duck stance lets you simply bend
deeply at the knees, creating the edge angle, but I'm having trouble
seeing how you make a really powerful turn. Please educate me!


Hope the above explain it all. Now you could ask why would a duck
stance
be in any way better than a more forward stance for powerful carving.
After all hard carvers have a large forward stance. Well, true, but
when it comes to hard equipment it's a different steering, different
alignment, and different story altogether. The comparison I make is
on a soft equipment between a low forward stance and symmetrical duck
stance.
I tried them both and in my case the duck stance resulted in better
riding. And I've seen several riders improve their carves by switching
to a duck stance.

Why? Not 100% sure.

I think one of the reasons is easier alignment. When in duck stance
simply have your hips and shoulders parallel with the board,
regardless of which turn you do. To prevent forward twist I sometimes
ride with a slight reverse twist by having front arm over the toe
edge,
and the back hand over the heel edge. Keeping the arms stuck in this
position will assure I'm always in good alignment.

Also, I find it easier to "roll" my feet between toes and heels this
way.
Feels more natural and makes aggressive edging easier. Try statically
w/o your board to stand on your toes then roll to your heels. In which
foot position will this movement be more effective? Having your feet
facing
forward (0-0 angle) or even slightly outward (duck stance) or having
them both facing left or right (more forward stance)?

Another thing, duck stance allows you to "throw" yourself into the
turn
same way on toe and heel side. Yes, it takes some (actually a lot)
trust
in your equipment specially on the heel side, but the end result is
well
worth it.

And yes, I ride switch almost as well as forward. Only the duck stance
will allow switch to be as effective as forward riding. It used to be
the main selling point for the duck stance, but I think the above
reasons
take precedence.

Try it. Have fun experimenting, and let me know what you think!

Sharkie
  #18  
Old February 27th 04, 07:31 AM
Sharkie
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Default Excessive Leg Strain Carving at High Speeds

(phil) wrote in message . com...
To say that any experimentation with stance is verboten seems to be to
be a little blinkered to say the least. Saying it multiple times makes
me wonder what you're so excited about. Relax and try to explain
yourself: shouting and repetition don't help.


You're right. The repetition was unnecessary. But I didn't mean to imply
that I'm against stance experimentation. Quite the opposite!
There is no universal "one stance fit all". What I was (repetitively)
saying no to, was the idea that duck stance might be a hindrance to
carving. Based on my own, and several others people I know experiences,
this is not the case.

The idea that duck stance is bad for carving is a myth that does
not hold true.

Many people I see trying to ride duck "at high speeds" clearly sorely
need the benefit of your advice... perhaps you'd like to explain a bit
more about how you achieve this with your stance?


See my other post in this thread. Also, from a symmetric duck stance
I'm able to shift my weight forward or back easily (depending on where
in the turn I am), I'm able to flex more or less (literally)
to increase or lessen pressure, and edge by rolling feet between
toes and heels. All these movements are enough for powerful carves,
and can be done very effectively from a duck stance.

Riding switch is just a nice bonus.

And as for "high speeds" it requires practice. There is a certain
combination between pressure, weight distribution and edging which is
optimal for certain speeds, and to find it, you need to ride a lot
on steeper slopes. After a while you will develop a feeling where
you simply will know which combination is optimal.

I guess similar applies to car racers, they have to know (feel)
how fast they can take a turn w/o slipping out of it.
 




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