questions about waxing

hi. i have never waxed skis before except with the liquid stuff.
i skate ski have rs 11's. i have always had sierra nordic wax my skis
once a year.
usually ski royal gorge california
some questions for the group. "how to wax".
1. you get the wax on. OK.
2. why do you scrape it off?
3. do you take the wax you scraped off and re-use it or toss it?
4. why do you put more layers on? since you just keep scraping it off?
5. can you damage the bottoms of the skis scrpaing them?
6. after you scrape you brush? why do you brush ? why not just polish
them?
7. then you polish the skis. OK i got that one figured out also.

TIA.

I would go to the Sierranordic.com website and look in their tech tips
archives (lower left of page). Tons of waxing info to get you started.
After reading that stuff you can come back here and ask any lingering
questions...good luck.

i read it already. lots of very good information. not the answers to my
questions though.
they do not say *why* anything is done. lots of *how to*.
i want to know *why* not *how*. anyone know *why*?
thankyou.

"wintermutt" wrote in message
ups.com...
hi. i have never waxed skis before except with the liquid stuff.
i skate ski have rs 11's. i have always had sierra nordic wax my skis
once a year.
usually ski royal gorge california
some questions for the group. "how to wax".
1. you get the wax on. OK.
2. why do you scrape it off?

Try skiing on un-scraped skis ;-) You'll find that the wax is *slower* than
the bare ptex (ski base material).

3. do you take the wax you scraped off and re-use it or toss it?

much joking in the wax room about who would re-use wax scrapings ;-)
Seriously, no one re-uses wax scrapings. The wax pulls the dirt off the
ski - would you want to put that dirt back *on* to your ski? Wax is cheap;
don't re-use the scrapings.

4. why do you put more layers on? since you just keep scraping it off?

Ah, now we're getting to the heart of the matter. The theory (born out by
experience) is that the wax penetrates the surface of the ptex. The wax
doens't go very deep (micons) but it changes the properties of the surface
of the ptex. Harder wax make harder ptex surface; Softer wax makes the ptex
surface softer. You vary the wax hardness to match the snow surface. That
makes a fast ski.

I don't put multiple layers on, one after another without skiing on the
boards (OK, I have been known to put multiple layers on for a big race, but
I do that less and less these days). Instead, I keep a log of what I put on
each pair and when. That way I know if I need to harden or soften the base
(or leave it alone) before I go out and ski. I re-wax at least every 30 to
50k of skiing, YMMV.

5. can you damage the bottoms of the skis scrpaing them?

yes, though it's much easier to damage them using a metal scraper (don't
metal scrape untill you know what you're doing!). The plexiglass scrapers
that we use most of the time are pretty easy to use safely. The key is to
keep the scraper sharp. I use a file to periodically straighten the plexi
scraper edges and a Toko sharpener to keep the edge *very* sharp. When it's
shaarp, you don't need to use much pressure to get the job done and that's
safer on the base.

6. after you scrape you brush? why do you brush ? why not just polish
them?

OK, first: take a look at your ski base real closely. You will see that the
base is not smooth like a mirror. It has microsopic grooves ground into it.
(not the big groove running down the center - or 2 grooves if you have a
rossi). The microscopic grooves are called "structure". Structure is another
part of optimizing the surface of the ski for the given snow conditions. For
now, just notice that the structure is there and that the wax gets into the
structure.

You brush with a coarse brush to remove as much of the wax from above the
surface of the ski base because wax *on* the ski makes it slow. Scraping
doesn't get very far down into the structure of the ski. For that, you need
to brush.

7. then you polish the skis. OK i got that one figured out also.

polish is kind of missleading. The fine "polishing" brush is just getting
the last of the wax out of the smallest parts of the ski structure.

Last: just use red wax (e.g. CH8) at royal gorge and you will have the
perfect wax 95% of the time. The snow is almost always "transformed" at just
a few degrees below freezing. When it's new snow, it's usually wet and warm,
so... use red wax then, too.
HTH,
Bob
I'll probably be at RG sometime this weekend; see you there?

as usual, sknyski has responded far more succinctly than I have. Oh, and I
got the advice to (almost) always use CH8 in the Tahoe area from bt, too.
Thanks, bt.

Bob

"sknyski" wrote in message
ups.com...
2. why do you scrape it off?
To get a smooth surface to glide on, for starters.

3. do you take the wax you scraped off and re-use it or toss it?
Toss it, but as a courtesy always clean up your shavings if in a public
wax room.

4. why do you put more layers on? since you just keep scraping it off?
There is some business about putting down a "base" and then adding
progressively faster (more flouro wax) in layers, but I think that the
main reason is to make sure that the base gets saturated with wax.

5. can you damage the bottoms of the skis scrpaing them?
Yes, be careful. You can **** up your skis with those hard plastic
scrapers.


6. after you scrape you brush? why do you brush ? why not just polish
them?
I don't know the difference between brushing and polishing, but you
brush primarily to get wax out of any structure that you have on the
skis. Your structure is useless if there is wax in it


bt

i might come up saturday to RG - depends on weather. this is a great
forum. i think i am beginning to understand a few things.
another question - when you are done waxing your skis do you want the
wax completely out of your structure?

"wintermutt" wrote in message
oups.com...
i might come up saturday to RG - depends on weather. this is a great
forum. i think i am beginning to understand a few things.
another question - when you are done waxing your skis do you want the
wax completely out of your structure?

That's the idea. You want the wax *in* the ptex, not *on* it. Of course,
whatever wax you leave *on* the ski will eventually rub off on the snow but
I'ld rather use the brush to take it off. I just brush until I can't see any
more on the ski and no more is coming off the ski. Or until I get bored ;-)

Bob
looks like we'll be at RG on Sunday. Tahoe XC (Burton Creek) is the Saturday
afternoon destination. Looks a little breezy this weekend but there should
be great snow. I'll probably be striding in my SWIX warm-up pants, green
shell top, and red ear cover (looks as good as it sounds!) I'll be with my
SO who usually skates with a purple baklava (you know: neck covering, not
dessert). Say hi!

OK so optimally the wax is "in" the PTEX not on it or even in the
microscopic grooves.
so...why don't we soak bottoms of the skis in hot molten wax for 24
hours before we scrape them then use them the next day?
seems to me the amount of wax in the PTEX should be a direct function
of contact time with the wax in a liquid state.

You have just described hot boxing ones skis.

http://www.engineeredtuning.net/Heatbox.htm

Dave

"wintermutt" wrote in message
ups.com...
OK so optimally the wax is "in" the PTEX not on it or even in the
microscopic grooves.
so...why don't we soak bottoms of the skis in hot molten wax for 24
hours before we scrape them then use them the next day?
seems to me the amount of wax in the PTEX should be a direct function
of contact time with the wax in a liquid state.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0200, wintermutt wrote:

hi. i have never waxed skis before except with the liquid stuff.
i skate ski have rs 11's. i have always had sierra nordic wax my skis
once a year.
usually ski royal gorge california
some questions for the group. "how to wax".
1. you get the wax on. OK.
2. why do you scrape it off?
3. do you take the wax you scraped off and re-use it or toss it?
4. why do you put more layers on? since you just keep scraping it off?
5. can you damage the bottoms of the skis scrpaing them?
6. after you scrape you brush? why do you brush ? why not just polish
them?
7. then you polish the skis. OK i got that one figured out also.

TIA.


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