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Controlling Speed Down the Fall Line



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 12th 04, 03:51 PM
John Smith
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Default Controlling Speed Down the Fall Line

I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS

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  #2  
Old January 12th 04, 04:13 PM
MattB
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Default

John Smith wrote:
I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS


Lots of turns. Hard edging (if it's firm).

Maybe yours turns (assuming you are making some) don't have enough "bite"
and you're really just sliding back and forth. If that sounds like what you
are doing try using more angulation (going farther onto your edge by driving
your hip and knee inward).

Like you mentioned, more instruction would probably help as we can't see
what's going on. Sometimes a lesson with video so you can see yourself is a
big help. Hope that helps!

Matt



  #3  
Old January 12th 04, 05:22 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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Default

On 2004-01-12, John Smith penned:
I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS


I have the same problem. I had a lesson recently that really opened my
eyes.

So that's the first thing: if you're having trouble, take a lesson. An
expert instructor who can actually see you ski can do wonders. Lessons
are *not* just for beginners (most ski instructors will take as many
opportunities to learn as they can get their gloves on), and toward the
upper end of the ski school ratings system, there will be very few
people in your class, because far too many people think they're "beyond"
lessons. If I could afford it, I'd take a lesson every ski day.

Anyway, historically, I've been bad at making short, tight turns. This
means that on smooth runs, I'd make long, slolomy turns that did nothing
to slow me down. On runs with any kind of, um, texture, I would freak
out because I didn't have confidence in my ability to make tight turns,
so I'd end up doing a lot of horizontal movement, and of course, once
you're horizontal, it's a lot harder to get a nice turn going again ...

A lesson really helped me in this regard. Both a matter of identifying
my bad habits and a matter of being coached through my turns, following
the instructor's tracks, etc. For me, and I think most people of
roughly my ability level, the big mistake is not leaning forward down
the mountain enough. I tend to lean back when I'm worried about speed,
which just reduces my control. If you do that too, one thing to work on
would be making sure that you really reach out for a pole plant before
your turn, and bring your body forward with your arm.

One way to figure out which way you're leaning is to stand with your
skis completely horizontal and angle them so that you're slipping down
the slope sideways. If you tend to slip towards your back, you're
leaning too far back.

I still have trouble linking turns on black mogul runs because of the
speed fear factor, but on blue moguls I'm getting pretty comfy. I went
from picking my way through blue moguls to connecting turns till my
thighs gave out in one day, all thanks to a breakthrough lesson. I now
feel prety comfortable even near trees, because I have confidence in my
ability to turn just about anywhere. Lessons are awesome.

Good luck! And please bear in mind that I've never seen you ski, I may
be explaining things poorly, and I'm no ski instructor, so proceed with
caution in taking my advice. And did I mention you should take a
lesson?

--
monique

  #4  
Old January 12th 04, 06:07 PM
lal_truckee
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Default

Monique Y. Herman wrote:

Anyway, historically, I've been bad at making short, tight turns. This
means that on smooth runs, I'd make long, slolomy turns that did nothing
to slow me down.


Presumably you meant "Giant Slalomy" turns?
"Slolomy" (sic) turns ARE short, tight turns.

(The order is:
Slalom - tight, quick turns
Giant Slalom - moderate turns, at speed
Super G - very high speed, very broad turns
Downhill - no turns, just guide gates to go from this near cliff to the
next near cliff; repeat.)

In any case, Giant Slalom turns can slow you down just as much as any
turn, IF there's sufficient room on the slope - just hold the carve
until you've lost sufficient speed, even to the point of carving uphill
a bit.


  #5  
Old January 12th 04, 06:36 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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Default

On 2004-01-12, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:

Anyway, historically, I've been bad at making short, tight turns. This
means that on smooth runs, I'd make long, slolomy turns that did nothing
to slow me down.


Presumably you meant "Giant Slalomy" turns?
"Slolomy" (sic) turns ARE short, tight turns.

(The order is:
Slalom - tight, quick turns
Giant Slalom - moderate turns, at speed
Super G - very high speed, very broad turns
Downhill - no turns, just guide gates to go from this near cliff to the
next near cliff; repeat.)


I've always had trouble distinguishing all of these. Yes, looks like I
mean "giant slolomy." Except without the associated skill level.

In any case, Giant Slalom turns can slow you down just as much as any
turn, IF there's sufficient room on the slope - just hold the carve
until you've lost sufficient speed, even to the point of carving uphill
a bit.


True enough. Not that I generally *want* to slow down too much on
groomers, except of course for the designated "slow" areas (which always
seem to be strategically placed right where I'd rather be picking up
speed to make it through some catwalk).

I was more trying to convey my relative lack of skill at tight, quick
turns than the proper way to do GS turns, but thank you for the
clarification.

--
monique

  #6  
Old January 13th 04, 01:17 AM
Kneale Brownson
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Default

John Smith wrote in message om...
I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS



The "secret" is to not get going too fast in the first place. The
technique is to let each turn continue (even back up the hill if
necessary) until you've reached a comfortable speed. Realize that the
beginning of each turn is going to make your skis accelerate because
they point downhill to start the turn. Then let that turn continue
until your pace is comfortable. If you try to make several turns that
end with the skis still pointing somewhat downhill, you will be
gaining speed with each turn. Finally, you will have to really
"brake" to get your speed back into the comfort zone. The most
effective way to turn as I've described is to think about turning the
right ski to the right when you want to go that direction and the left
ski to the left for that direction. If you think in terms of turning
right by pushing out the left ski, you end up skidding the tail of
that ski and cannot turn sufficiently uphill to really get slowing out
of the turns.

Find an instructor who will talk about turning the right ski to turn
right and the left to turn left and then sign up for a lesson.

  #7  
Old January 13th 04, 04:07 PM
John Smith
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Posts: n/a
Default

I posted this message over a week ago! And it finally shows up today.
Go figure.

Thanks all for the answers.

I guess, one of the things I'm trying to understand is, what is it that
a good skiier is doing as they seem to be moving straight down the hill
(the fall line as they see it) and they are smoothly making tight rapid
turns (or are they just moving skis from side to side). Maybe they
aren't trying to slow down; maybe they're going as fast as they can but
aren't dealing with the fear factor of falling and being unable to meet
the mortgage while they're laid up. Anyway, they look great doing what
they're doing; which to me is moving down the fall line at their chosen
speed (that is, obviously under control).

My kids are switching to snowboards, so while they're taking board
lessons, I'll be taking my own.

Enjoy the snow!
JS

MattB wrote:
John Smith wrote:

I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS



Lots of turns. Hard edging (if it's firm).

Maybe yours turns (assuming you are making some) don't have enough "bite"
and you're really just sliding back and forth. If that sounds like what you
are doing try using more angulation (going farther onto your edge by driving
your hip and knee inward).

Like you mentioned, more instruction would probably help as we can't see
what's going on. Sometimes a lesson with video so you can see yourself is a
big help. Hope that helps!

Matt




  #8  
Old January 13th 04, 05:35 PM
lal_truckee
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Posts: n/a
Default

John Smith wrote:

I posted this message over a week ago! And it finally shows up today.
Go figure.

Thanks all for the answers.

I guess, one of the things I'm trying to understand is, what is it that
a good skiier is doing as they seem to be moving straight down the hill
(the fall line as they see it) and they are smoothly making tight rapid
turns (or are they just moving skis from side to side). Maybe they
aren't trying to slow down; maybe they're going as fast as they can but
aren't dealing with the fear factor of falling and being unable to meet
the mortgage while they're laid up. Anyway, they look great doing what
they're doing; which to me is moving down the fall line at their chosen
speed (that is, obviously under control).


You know, you've just re-stated Lito's premise from his justifiably
famous (and the best) book on how to ski, "Breakthrough on Skis" (or the
new edition "Breakthrough on the New Skis") where he points out that
good skiers are "always turning" and proceeds to build a discipline
around that observation.

Good skiers are always turning - there's no moment of hesitation between
one turn and the next; IMO it's that moment of hesitation when unwanted
speed builds up and nerves cringe. If you're always turning and a nerve
twitches, you can just hold the turn a moment more and reduce speed
slightly (but you won't need too, really but if you hesitate betweeen
turns, speed builds and you have to *Do Something* to regain control.
That's a bad thing - it means action must be taken, instead of action
merely postponed. Leads to panic.

Good skiers are always turning.



My kids are switching to snowboards, so while they're taking board
lessons, I'll be taking my own.


Good idea. Then get and read Lito Tejeda-Flores' book.


Enjoy the snow!
JS

MattB wrote:

John Smith wrote:

I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS




Lots of turns. Hard edging (if it's firm).

Maybe yours turns (assuming you are making some) don't have enough "bite"
and you're really just sliding back and forth. If that sounds like
what you
are doing try using more angulation (going farther onto your edge by
driving
your hip and knee inward).

Like you mentioned, more instruction would probably help as we can't see
what's going on. Sometimes a lesson with video so you can see yourself
is a
big help. Hope that helps!

Matt






  #9  
Old January 13th 04, 06:13 PM
Monique Y. Herman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 2004-01-13, John Smith penned:
I posted this message over a week ago! And it finally shows up today.
Go figure.

Thanks all for the answers.

I guess, one of the things I'm trying to understand is, what is it
that a good skiier is doing as they seem to be moving straight down
the hill (the fall line as they see it) and they are smoothly making
tight rapid turns (or are they just moving skis from side to side).
Maybe they aren't trying to slow down; maybe they're going as fast as
they can but aren't dealing with the fear factor of falling and being
unable to meet the mortgage while they're laid up. Anyway, they look
great doing what they're doing; which to me is moving down the fall
line at their chosen speed (that is, obviously under control).



Fear is the great destroyer. If you're thinking about your mortgage
while you're skiing, I'm amazed you're not in a full body cast already!

What kinds of runs are you skiing when you feel this sort of fear?
Maybe you could work on your turns on a slightly less steep slope, then
gradually work your way up to steeper stuff.

My kids are switching to snowboards, so while they're taking board
lessons, I'll be taking my own.


Good plan!

--
monique

  #10  
Old January 14th 04, 01:45 AM
Richard Walsh
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
:

On 2004-01-13, John Smith penned:
I posted this message over a week ago! And it finally shows up today.
Go figure.

Thanks all for the answers.

I guess, one of the things I'm trying to understand is, what is it
that a good skiier is doing as they seem to be moving straight down
the hill (the fall line as they see it) and they are smoothly making
tight rapid turns (or are they just moving skis from side to side).
Maybe they aren't trying to slow down; maybe they're going as fast as
they can but aren't dealing with the fear factor of falling and being
unable to meet the mortgage while they're laid up. Anyway, they look
great doing what they're doing; which to me is moving down the fall
line at their chosen speed (that is, obviously under control).



Fear is the great destroyer. If you're thinking about your mortgage
while you're skiing, I'm amazed you're not in a full body cast already!

What kinds of runs are you skiing when you feel this sort of fear?
Maybe you could work on your turns on a slightly less steep slope, then
gradually work your way up to steeper stuff.

My kids are switching to snowboards, so while they're taking board
lessons, I'll be taking my own.


Good plan!


"Fear is the mind-killer..."
Frank Herbert, *Dune*

What Monique said...
What LAL said...

AND, books are good, real live teachers are great, but
the best teacher of all is mileage. Mileage build
confidence like nothing else. All good skiers have lots
of mile on their skis (boots, bodies and all that's
attached).

 




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