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Best lessons in Colorado?



 
 
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  #41  
Old September 2nd 03, 07:05 PM
Walt
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote:
On 2 Sep 2003 15:50:05 GMT, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:


(I wonder if it should bother me, then, that there is no such thing as a
men's class CLIP)


There are "men's class" - they are marketed at Steep Clinics or Expert
Tuneups. Difference is, women who are so inclined are eligible to join a
"Steep Clinic" while men who would feel better in a supportive, lower
pressure learning environment are discouraged (maybe disallowed?) from
signing up for a "Women's Clinic."


See, they're not men's classes, and women will generally be seen in a
positive light if they join those classes (and belong there).

I know few men, on the other hand, who would feel comfortable enough in
their masculinity to sign up for a "kinder, gentler" lesson, even
without the deadly "women's" tag on it. And their buddies would harrass
them endlessly.

It's incredibly stupid, but I think it's true.


There's a bit more to it than that.

If a ski school really tried to host a men-only class they'd probably
find themselves facing a lawsuit or a picket/protest. At the very least
it would make for bad publicity.

Meanwhile, a resort can offer womens-only clinics and no one says boo.
The strict civil libertarian in me says that this is gender
discrimination. The pragmatist in me says that I've got more important
things to worry about than being shut out of an event that I have no
desire to attend anyway. The surrealist in me says "Go fish!"

Summer over yet?

--
//-Walt
//
//

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  #42  
Old September 2nd 03, 07:35 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 2 Sep 2003 19:05:02 GMT, Walt penned:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote:
On 2 Sep 2003 15:50:05 GMT, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:


(I wonder if it should bother me, then, that there is no such thing as a
men's class CLIP)

There are "men's class" - they are marketed at Steep Clinics or Expert
Tuneups. Difference is, women who are so inclined are eligible to join a
"Steep Clinic" while men who would feel better in a supportive, lower
pressure learning environment are discouraged (maybe disallowed?) from
signing up for a "Women's Clinic."


See, they're not men's classes, and women will generally be seen in a
positive light if they join those classes (and belong there).

I know few men, on the other hand, who would feel comfortable enough in
their masculinity to sign up for a "kinder, gentler" lesson, even
without the deadly "women's" tag on it. And their buddies would harrass
them endlessly.

It's incredibly stupid, but I think it's true.


There's a bit more to it than that.

If a ski school really tried to host a men-only class they'd probably
find themselves facing a lawsuit or a picket/protest. At the very least
it would make for bad publicity.

Meanwhile, a resort can offer womens-only clinics and no one says boo.
The strict civil libertarian in me says that this is gender
discrimination. The pragmatist in me says that I've got more important
things to worry about than being shut out of an event that I have no
desire to attend anyway. The surrealist in me says "Go fish!"


See my comment about the whole situation being incredibly stupid =P

I agree with you. It's discrimination, but there are probably worse
issues to face.

Summer over yet?


*sigh* not quite yet, though the days are getting shorter and cooler.

--
monique

  #43  
Old September 3rd 03, 12:25 AM
Kneale Brownson
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...
See, that's exactly it. I don't want bonding in my ski lessons, I want,

um, lessons.

It sounds great for the right demographic, and I think I'm going to try
one of these all-day women's clinics, if only because the price is
right. Hey, maybe I'll surprise myself and like the lower pressure
learning environment ... but my suspicion is that I'd prefer the more
traditional style.


Heh, heh. When my wife (also named Monique) and I visited Kirkwood
near Tahoe shortly after it opened, they were having a free Ladies Day
lesson and lunch with champagne, so she and the other gals in the
group opted for that program. She raved about the instruction (by
some guy) helping her a lot. She said the guy told her the same
things I'd been telling her for several years. Coming from someone
else made my suggestions more valid, I guess.

  #44  
Old September 3rd 03, 03:40 AM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 3 Sep 2003 00:25:12 GMT, Kneale Brownson penned:

Heh, heh. When my wife (also named Monique) and I visited Kirkwood
near Tahoe shortly after it opened, they were having a free Ladies Day
lesson and lunch with champagne, so she and the other gals in the
group opted for that program. She raved about the instruction (by
some guy) helping her a lot. She said the guy told her the same
things I'd been telling her for several years. Coming from someone
else made my suggestions more valid, I guess.


It can be hard to take advice from your s.o., especially if they're not
certified experts in whatever the subject matter happens to be. My
fiance has been doing all the stuff we're now doing together for years,
whereas I've just started, and no matter how well-intentioned his tips
and encouragement are, I find them insufferable.

Then again, the instructor may have used a turn of phrase or analogy --
one your wife didn't even remember -- that suddenly made everything click for
her.

--
monique

  #45  
Old September 3rd 03, 08:20 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:43:16 CST, snoig penned:
Hi Monique,
One highly recomended womens clinic would be
http://www.backcountrybabes.com/. Leslie usually does a couple of
clinics at the Basin and Loveland each year. Some friends of mine
have taken some of the courses and all were very impressed. From what
I hear, it's not your typical womens clinic. They mainly cater to
tele skiers but they do offer one steep skiing clinic April 2-4 in
Silverton (good place for it).


Thanks for the tip! I'll look into them.


And only a few more weeks until skiing starts. September 28th last
year. Plenty of fresh snow on Hoosier Pass a couple of days ago.
Should start collecting in some chutes this week.

snoig



--
monique

  #46  
Old September 3rd 03, 09:20 PM
ant
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...

You sound like the A-type lady I was skiing wiht last week. She asked
for some recommendations for private lessons for teh coming week, I
reeled off some names, and she said "no women! I only want to learn
from men". So I recommended our sole US instructor, who in my opinion
has a great attitude, is an excellent skiier and teacher, and just so
happens to be gorgeous as well. She emailed that she found him to be
exactly what she liked, so that all ended well.

Like I said, some women are like that, however most I encounter in ski
school and just generally chatting around the resort are of the sort I
described. I guess if you use men as the yardstick of excellence, they
are less-than men. Otherwise, they are simply different from men, and
no lesser.

So women's programmes work for the women whose learning style is being
catered-to, but it sounds as though you'd be happier hucking with the
guys.
Keystone had special names for those groups, usually clinics of
various sorts (steep n deep, bumps etc).

as to men-only lesson, I guess that's got connotations of exclusive
clubs etc. I wonder if there would be a demand for such groups? It'd
be a brave resort that had them, sadly.

ant

  #47  
Old September 9th 03, 04:20 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 3 Sep 2003 21:20:28 GMT, ant penned:

snip

as to men-only lesson, I guess that's got connotations of exclusive
clubs etc. I wonder if there would be a demand for such groups? It'd
be a brave resort that had them, sadly.

ant


It seems like one could get around the whole "accusations of sexism"
issue by simply holding classes designed for different personality
types. So you could have a once- or twice-a-week lesson for "aggressive
beginners" as well as one for "cautious experts," etc. I don't
personally see the point in targetting it to a particular gender,
although I guess some women feel more comfortable learning without men
around. I suppose some men might feel the same way about women.

I'm no expert in education, but it seems (just from observation) that
some people need to feel they understand every nuance before they try
something; other people (like me) prefer an iterative approach in which
they get the broad-brush strokes, try it a few times, get a bit of
feedback, etc. I can't help it -- I get antsy sitting through too much
lecture during sports-oriented classes. (Part of that, in hockey as
well as in skiing, is that I've yet to find a boot that doesn't cause
some sort of discomfort to what they call the "sixth toe." In both
sports, I seem fine as long as I'm moving, but when I have to stand
still, the foot position tends to cause various forms of pain.)

I'm sure there are still other types of learners, too.

--
monique

My pointless ramblings:
http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

  #48  
Old September 9th 03, 09:55 PM
pigo
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...

It seems like one could get around the whole "accusations of sexism"
issue by simply holding classes designed for different personality
types. So you could have a once- or twice-a-week lesson for

"aggressive
beginners" as well as one for "cautious experts," etc. I don't
personally see the point in targetting it to a particular gender,
although I guess some women feel more comfortable learning without men
around. I suppose some men might feel the same way about women.


It seems that one could get around ''accusations of sexism" (as well as
other pcisms) by ignoring them and not giving them any more attention
than they deserve (which is zero).

Of course we'd need to get he courts to do the same so that the victims
wouldn't have to defend themselves.

I'm no expert in education, but it seems (just from observation) that
some people need to feel they understand every nuance before they try
something; other people (like me) prefer an iterative approach in

which
they get the broad-brush strokes, try it a few times, get a bit of
feedback, etc. I can't help it -- I get antsy sitting through too

much
lecture during sports-oriented classes. (Part of that, in hockey as
well as in skiing, is that I've yet to find a boot that doesn't cause
some sort of discomfort to what they call the "sixth toe." In both
sports, I seem fine as long as I'm moving, but when I have to stand
still, the foot position tends to cause various forms of pain.)

I'm sure there are still other types of learners, too.


I think that anyone that has truely achieved advanced skiing skills
should be able to communicate the type of lesson they want. The problem
is that that person in a group split will get grouped with the next
lowest group rather than the ski school giving them a "group lesson"
of one.

An advanced skier should be able to read or talk about technique and pra
ctice it on their own and get what they need out of it IMO as well.

pigo



 




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