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#1
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
Hi, Maybe you can explain this to me. I live in Wisconsin and have been xc skate ski training for the Birkie for the past 3 months. My fitness is very good, currently. I'm using my heart rate monitor for my training mainly to monitor my time spent near my anaerobic threshold. I was just out in Breckenridge and Frisco, Colorado and skied there at 10k and 9k feet of elevation, respectively. Although, due to the altitude, I was constantly out of breath due to lack of oxygen and totally felt spent, my heart rate was generally well below my anaerobic threshold. I skied for two hours one day and three the next. The way I felt, I should've been near my threshold for quite some time, yet I only accumulated about 10 minutes there each day. I returned home the other day and skied for an hour and had no problem getting my heart rate up to where it should be. Thoughts? Why would my respiratory rate be so high in Colorado, yet not my heart rate? Thanks, Brian |
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#2
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
Brian,
As you increase altitude, there is a decrease in barometric pressure. This effectively decreases the oxygen pressure, though the percentage of O2 is the same here in CO (or Mt. Everest for that matter) as it is in WI (or any other place near/at sea level). To compensate, respiration rates increase significantly to try to present the same amount of O2 to the lung - and was likely increased by about 50% at the elevation you were at compared to sea level. This is why your respiration was significantly elevated, and will always be higher at altitude. As one acclimates, the respiratory muscles become better trained and several physiologic adaptations occur which enhance oxygen transport and delivery to muscles (increase hematocrit, increase 2,3 DPG, excretion of bicarbonate, etc.). Endurance performace at high altitudes will always be negatively affected, though, compared to sea level and will require higher respiratory rates at the same absolute workout intensity. The decreased HR you observed is kind of interesting, as most classically there is an increase in HR during exercise at an absolute intensity in acute exposure to altitude. With a significant increase in altitude, though, there can be a downregulation in HR...usually occuring at more extreme elevations. There are many factors which can affect HR, so there are other confounding variables. If you do not know the absolute amount of work you were doing (which is pretty difficult with skiing), then it is most likely that you were performing significantly less intense work, but it felt much harder due to the increased respiration. Hope that helps! Neal -- Neal Henderson, MS CSCS Coordinator of Sport Science Boulder Center for Sports Medicine phone: (303) 544-5700 web: http://www.bch.org/sportsmedicine email: "Brian and Denise Pauley" wrote in message ... Hi, Maybe you can explain this to me. I live in Wisconsin and have been xc skate ski training for the Birkie for the past 3 months. My fitness is very good, currently. I'm using my heart rate monitor for my training mainly to monitor my time spent near my anaerobic threshold. I was just out in Breckenridge and Frisco, Colorado and skied there at 10k and 9k feet of elevation, respectively. Although, due to the altitude, I was constantly out of breath due to lack of oxygen and totally felt spent, my heart rate was generally well below my anaerobic threshold. I skied for two hours one day and three the next. The way I felt, I should've been near my threshold for quite some time, yet I only accumulated about 10 minutes there each day. I returned home the other day and skied for an hour and had no problem getting my heart rate up to where it should be. Thoughts? Why would my respiratory rate be so high in Colorado, yet not my heart rate? Thanks, Brian |
#3
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
I'm not a medical doctor, but I've gone from living at sea-level to
exercising at 3000 meters altitude many times. I find that I get early symptoms of "acute mountain sickness" during your first 2-3 days at altitude at 2500 meters / 8000 feet -- like lethargy and nausea (other people get headaches and other symptoms). Feelings like that prevent me from exercising as hard as I want, notably for climbing up slopes. (I do much better just skiing down, the first couple of days). So perhaps feelings and symptoms like that are preventing you working your muscles hard enough to effectively use even what hemoglobin you've got, and so you're not engaging enough muscle mass at a high enough rate to get your heart rate up as high as you're accustomed to. Then my doctor wrote me a prescription for acetazolamide (Diamox) -- because I go up to altitude several times a year, so I asked him about it. Now I start taking it a couple of days before I go up to altitude, and it helps me a lot. I do get some "tingling" side effects, but enduring those is worth it for me. I've read that some of those "acute mountain sickness" symptoms are due to lack of CO2 in the atmosphere (not the lack of oxygen, surprisingly). The explanation I've heard is that the carbonic acid level in my blood gets reduced, and that changes the pH of my blood -- reduces the acidity, causes "alkalosis". Various neural/brain control mechanisms seem to interpret that as _trouble_, and generate bad feelings (and other reactions). Like I tend to have feelings of lethargy and nausea when I exercise hard at 2500 meters or above the first few days. Sharon doesn't seem to get those symptoms until more like 3000 meters / 10000 feet. After three days at that altitude, I can exercise at much higher rates, even though that's not enough time for my body to add very much hemoglobin capacity. But with taking acetazolamide to help control my blood pH level, I can ramp up my exercise level much quicker. But this whole altitude thing is tricky, and I've read some stories recently of much more dangerous things like HAPE and HACE hitting some skiers at 3000 meters altitude (or maybe even only 2500 meters?). So it sounds like it's not a good idea to just rely on acetazolamide, if you don't know what else might be happening. Best to consult with a medical doctor with current specific knowledge about altitude-related illnesses. Ken |
#4
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , Ken Roberts wrote: I'm not a medical doctor, but I've gone from living at sea-level to exercising at 3000 meters altitude many times. _ I do it every weekend I can get away and for me it's often hit or miss. Somedays fine and somedays I suffer, I don't keep a precise enough exercise diary to isolate any causes. Really frustrating to put that much energy into getting out and up there and not have the gas in the tank. _ As far as heart rate goes, your maximum and minimum heart rates squeeze together as you increase altitude. Your resting hr will rise and your lacate threshold drop. If you have the time, taking it easy the first day or so will help a lot over a 1 week trip. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQBlxz2TWTAjn5N/lAQHUxwP/e9CE2X6HD+P4tmRYGG/H537AooeFTQwj MaViHSboH/ALCfdZNvlVwyIGjv0sJoMwA8Q258ZfSe98KFDt4YJHYS9XvdKs kVTB Q9tcqHTYU3QFCD4HHcXc1wfCG6MsCwaGZ5oVy2mB8pA4wIVnKr wHAxYduOEiJUPn k0NR88m8D2M= =EKOZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#5
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
Neal,
Thanks for the reply. I think you hit it on the head in the last section of your letter. I simply think that I wasn't able to work hard enough to get my heart rate up, or to make any lactic acid for that matter. It always amazes me how you can feel like you are hammering out there, yet it's not the muscles that fatigue rather it's the cardiovascular system that puts the brakes on. I'm assuming that this would all normalize if I'd spend more time at altitude. I just thought I'd see if this was confusing to anyone else as well. Brian "Neal Henderson" wrote in message ... Brian, As you increase altitude, there is a decrease in barometric pressure. This effectively decreases the oxygen pressure, though the percentage of O2 is the same here in CO (or Mt. Everest for that matter) as it is in WI (or any other place near/at sea level). To compensate, respiration rates increase significantly to try to present the same amount of O2 to the lung - and was likely increased by about 50% at the elevation you were at compared to sea level. This is why your respiration was significantly elevated, and will always be higher at altitude. As one acclimates, the respiratory muscles become better trained and several physiologic adaptations occur which enhance oxygen transport and delivery to muscles (increase hematocrit, increase 2,3 DPG, excretion of bicarbonate, etc.). Endurance performace at high altitudes will always be negatively affected, though, compared to sea level and will require higher respiratory rates at the same absolute workout intensity. The decreased HR you observed is kind of interesting, as most classically there is an increase in HR during exercise at an absolute intensity in acute exposure to altitude. With a significant increase in altitude, though, there can be a downregulation in HR...usually occuring at more extreme elevations. There are many factors which can affect HR, so there are other confounding variables. If you do not know the absolute amount of work you were doing (which is pretty difficult with skiing), then it is most likely that you were performing significantly less intense work, but it felt much harder due to the increased respiration. Hope that helps! Neal -- Neal Henderson, MS CSCS Coordinator of Sport Science Boulder Center for Sports Medicine phone: (303) 544-5700 web: http://www.bch.org/sportsmedicine email: "Brian and Denise Pauley" wrote in message ... Hi, Maybe you can explain this to me. I live in Wisconsin and have been xc skate ski training for the Birkie for the past 3 months. My fitness is very good, currently. I'm using my heart rate monitor for my training mainly to monitor my time spent near my anaerobic threshold. I was just out in Breckenridge and Frisco, Colorado and skied there at 10k and 9k feet of elevation, respectively. Although, due to the altitude, I was constantly out of breath due to lack of oxygen and totally felt spent, my heart rate was generally well below my anaerobic threshold. I skied for two hours one day and three the next. The way I felt, I should've been near my threshold for quite some time, yet I only accumulated about 10 minutes there each day. I returned home the other day and skied for an hour and had no problem getting my heart rate up to where it should be. Thoughts? Why would my respiratory rate be so high in Colorado, yet not my heart rate? Thanks, Brian |
#6
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
My case exactly, Ken.
I live near the beach and travel to ski at 7000' level. The first day I usually experience light headache and have to breathe hard even walking up the stairs. Next day is a race day and I get wasted just skating uphill. It gets a little easier on the third day, but it is too late. I feel like the same effort takes me 10 beats per minute less on the sea level. Can I increase blood acidity drinking lemon juice, vitamin C and alike? What are side effects of this drug? |
#7
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
Serge asked
What are side effects of this drug? You could check http://high-altitude-medicine.com which has info about Acute Mountain Sickness and acetazolamide -- and lots of other stuff about altitude acclimatization and illnesses. Can I increase blood acidity drinking lemon juice . . . I never heard of anything like that helping with altitude acclimatization (though I have heard that drinking more plain water is a good idea). And maybe it's not just addressing blood alkalinity that's the point -- it could be that the specific _way_ that acetazolamide does it is important -- dealing with the CO2 issue. Ken |
#8
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skiing at altitude & heart rate
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , Ken Roberts wrote: Serge asked What are side effects of this drug? You could check http://high-altitude-medicine.com which has info about Acute Mountain Sickness and acetazolamide -- and lots of other stuff about altitude acclimatization and illnesses. Can I increase blood acidity drinking lemon juice . . . I never heard of anything like that helping with altitude acclimatization (though I have heard that drinking more plain water is a good idea). And maybe it's not just addressing blood alkalinity that's the point -- it could be that the specific _way_ that acetazolamide does it is important -- dealing with the CO2 issue. _ Apparently there is some genetic compontent to this as well, some people respond quickly to the C02 issue and some don't. Although it sounds stupid, sometimes it's really helpful to just breathe extra. Take more breathes than you think you "need". _ As far as blasting up for 3 days, I find the second day is always the most painful. In my experience, I find that if I need to be "competetive" at 7K-8K, it's better to just blast up there on the morning. This doesn't work for me for anything higher than about 9k. The more you do this the better you get at it. This is just me and counter's every piece of advice I've ever seen, but it works for me. _ Another "drug" to consider is ginko boloba, there are studies that show that it helps with altitude adjustment. You need to take it in suffiecent doses and over a long period for it to be useful. I THINK it helps, but it's soo hard to know for sure. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQB+70GTWTAjn5N/lAQGeUwQAtCm+1r/tfyCn938BKLS58dn6K8aL7XDT mYrVnl9aYziO5VfPZT4K6XfvvYpclbL5Y2H4vLpMhHdbswF4hO mcZ4vWVS0562df wo/pQpZr/scUZkHRP2VLGJVw0WAT/6OjbomJQwnTNKleO7JVcEkH2Lm95EnJLQJY 2zOhqsYUs68= =vnnl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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