A Snow and ski forum. SkiBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SkiBanter forum » Skiing Newsgroups » Nordic Skiing
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Measuring the quality of snow



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 17th 04, 08:50 PM
Pieter Litchfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and track
setter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4 miles of
trails (free to the public).

I'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional diagonal
x-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes the
snow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst of
all, feels like dirt in the spring!

But how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperature
probes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).
So I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some guidelines
for grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow is
forecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easily
available data like snow temp, air temp, forecast, snow density, depths,
etc.

Can anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment of
snow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towards
avalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!

Just trying to do a better job for you guys...

The groomer


Ads
  #2  
Old January 19th 04, 02:32 AM
Gary Jacobson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

Maybe you could get a message to Greg Fangel who posts to this news group. I
think he knows of sources to help you. Also in a recent Silent Sports
magazine there was an article about grooming in low snow conditions. Don't
remember the details, but my sense was there is a lot of intuition based on
experience. Also I think there are web sites with grooming guidelines.

All I know is, if I was a groomer I'd be screwing up a lot because I'd do
things different than the groomers that do a great job.

Are you able to keep some trails ungroomed and closed if there is a serious
thaw predicted and no new snow after that? After the freeze you can groom
them and mine the powder underneath the crust. The far reaching thinking
groomers around here have done this once in a while.

BTW, where do you groom? Could you post your findings? It would be
interesting to follow a discussion among groomers.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY


"Pieter Litchfield" wrote in message
...
I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and track
setter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4 miles

of
trails (free to the public).

I'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional

diagonal
x-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes the
snow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst of
all, feels like dirt in the spring!

But how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperature
probes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).
So I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some

guidelines
for grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow is
forecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easily
available data like snow temp, air temp, forecast, snow density, depths,
etc.

Can anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment of
snow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towards
avalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!

Just trying to do a better job for you guys...

The groomer




  #3  
Old January 19th 04, 03:31 AM
Pieter Litchfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

Gary:

I'll be happy to share whatever I find, and thanks for the contact name.
The idea of closing trails when weather is expected to warm is interesting.
The only advice I've received so far, is that all snow should be compacted.
But that suggestion is exactly the kind of guideline I'd like to be able to
use, especially when based on measurements of environmental variables like
temperatrues and snow density. In addition, since I am grooming on a
municipal/state/TNC holding, its about impossible to stop public access. I
had a hard enought time just getting permission to put up signs politely
requesting dog walkers not to boot walk groomed trails in warm weather - all
are requested (but not required) to use snowshoes or skis. With my groomer,
I can't do much with those 6 inch deep boot holes after they freeze.

I have found a couple of sources for grooming info. One is "Cross Country
Canada" ( http://canada.x-c.com/splash2e.html ) which has both a book and
video on grooming, and another is Tidd-Tech manufacturing
(http://www.tiddtech.com/), the same people who make my groomer. I don't
know how much "science" they put into their how-to publications, however. I
have materials on the way from both sources.
I am located near Saratoga Springs - grooming a few miles in Wilton NY


"Gary Jacobson" wrote in message
...
Maybe you could get a message to Greg Fangel who posts to this news group.

I
think he knows of sources to help you. Also in a recent Silent Sports
magazine there was an article about grooming in low snow conditions. Don't
remember the details, but my sense was there is a lot of intuition based

on
experience. Also I think there are web sites with grooming guidelines.

All I know is, if I was a groomer I'd be screwing up a lot because I'd do
things different than the groomers that do a great job.

Are you able to keep some trails ungroomed and closed if there is a

serious
thaw predicted and no new snow after that? After the freeze you can groom
them and mine the powder underneath the crust. The far reaching thinking
groomers around here have done this once in a while.

BTW, where do you groom? Could you post your findings? It would be
interesting to follow a discussion among groomers.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY


"Pieter Litchfield" wrote in message
...
I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and track
setter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4

miles
of
trails (free to the public).

I'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional

diagonal
x-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes the
snow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst

of
all, feels like dirt in the spring!

But how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperature
probes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by

weight).
So I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some

guidelines
for grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow

is
forecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easily
available data like snow temp, air temp, forecast, snow density, depths,
etc.

Can anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment

of
snow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towards
avalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!

Just trying to do a better job for you guys...

The groomer






  #4  
Old January 19th 04, 02:40 PM
Brendon M. Troy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

"Pieter Litchfield" wrote
I'll be happy to share whatever I find, and thanks for the contact

name.
snip

Great, I'd also be interested to hear your findings ... Google found a
few pages that aren't exactly what you're looking for in terms of
snow-conditions guidelines, but may give you some general tips you
hadn't thought of before if you haven't been "professionally" trained in
grooming:

http://members.shaw.ca/djlassmann4/t...ndards/4-4.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~ssnsa/GrmGuide%2003-04.pdf (as html:
http://tinyurl.com/2afuv)

Hope these can help some.
-Brendon


  #5  
Old January 19th 04, 03:44 PM
Pieter Litchfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

Thanks - I have seen these before, and in fact have a fairly extensive list
of sites that relate to both x-c grooming and overall multi-use trail design
and construction. I am looking forward to the information coming from
Tidd-Tech and the Canadian x-c association on general grooming. And I think
for many groomers, grooming "by feel" is perfectly fine. I'm just curious
if there is a way to relate how you groom directly to snow and weather. For
example, I have seen sites that suggest grooming every day or every other
day. Sometimes I do depending on snowfall and other conditions. But for a
volunteer organization, grooming every day can drain the manpower pool fast,
so it would be nice to have a system to minimize the manhours required for
best results.

"Brendon M. Troy" wrote in
message ...
"Pieter Litchfield" wrote
I'll be happy to share whatever I find, and thanks for the contact

name.
snip

Great, I'd also be interested to hear your findings ... Google found a
few pages that aren't exactly what you're looking for in terms of
snow-conditions guidelines, but may give you some general tips you
hadn't thought of before if you haven't been "professionally" trained in
grooming:

http://members.shaw.ca/djlassmann4/t...ndards/4-4.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~ssnsa/GrmGuide%2003-04.pdf (as html:
http://tinyurl.com/2afuv)

Hope these can help some.
-Brendon




  #6  
Old January 20th 04, 04:01 AM
GR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grooming: Measuring the quality of snow

One of the local parks had a budget crunch last year, and the guy that was
doing some of the grooming had some posts on the local xc board with some
of the problems of having the county (untrained) guys doing it. Here are
some snippets from my old mail stuff:
----------------
Grooming is more than just taking a piece of equipment around a trail. It
requires knowledge of various pieces of equipmet, when to use them, as well
as how to use them. What speeds to use them at. What snow conditions to
use them for. What temperatures and weather trends are taking place and
much much more as well as simply knowing the complete trail system. NO ONE
currently working for the Parks department has this experience. Although
they will lead you to believe they are "on top of things."
------------------
Since late Nov. or maybe the first week of Dec. the snow groomer has not
been on any of these trails beyond(south) the Water tower trail. By not
grooming the snow/working it on a timely basis there is now no base
established for the grooming machine to easily navigate the entire trail
system. They have stated, "when they replaced the tracks on the groomer a
few years ago they went without placing metal studs in them which now
prevents them from getting up most of the more advanced terrain hills."
Medal studs would not make any differance. They would not come in contact
with anything that is solid. The studs are only for black ice or boiler
plate. I used it for nearly 3 years just the way it is. Not being able to
get up the hills is due to, too much unpacked, airy, un-bonded snow that
needed to be packed shortly after if fell to earth, not weeks later. Thus,
just as we experience with classical waxing when new snow falls into set
tracks, wax tends to slip due to "snow sheer." This same thing except on a
much larger scale is what is now preventing them from getting up hills.
Too much unpacked snow under the machine so when the machine trys to "drive"
it will rip, or dig/spin/tear up all the unpacked snow in massive sheets,
down to the grass. What a shame.
------------
Your weekly lesson about GROOMING SKI TRAILS and the current mess.

The conditions at Mendon as stated below are now on Jan. 12th "deplorable"
due to inappropriate grooming over the past several weeks. Since the snow
began falling several weeks ago and only limitted grooming was being done by
inexperienced personnal it was simply a matter of time until the "ice" hit
the fan. Grooming requires more than just taking a heavy piece of equipment
and packing snow. The first step is to develop a base. That should have
been done in early December. Easily done this year. Then each day the snow
conditions on the trails along with the skier traffic, temperatures,
upcoming events and forecast need to be evaluated. With several inches of
new snow, rolling may be what is needed as well as trail leveling. Without
trail leveling you get the "fawn hill" look which was the narrow saucer like
shape down the center of the trail coming down from the water tower trail.
Which even for snow-plowers was difficult as it was so narrow. The entire
trail width was not usable even though good snow covered all of it.
Then last week we saw temperatures go above 32 degrees for approx 24-32
hours. During that same time heavy equipment was still being used to pack
the already "packed too hard" North Meadow Trails. When you go on warm snow
with heavy equipment you simply force the water out of it and it comes to
the surface. Surprise surprise. But it looked so good from the
road...............
You could feel the hardness of the trail last week (when you skied on it)
before it ever got warm. It felt harder than the actual road at Harriet
when it has very little snow. This was an "alarm" or "warning signal." Add
some more packing and then to top it off take the really heavy (half a ton
or more) track setter to set tracks on warm wet snow. Now drop the temps to
32 or below and your ski trail is no longer skiable. It will be a
combination of Ben and Jerry's "chunky monky" and ice. Except, Ben and
Jerry's is enjoyable when it appears in a dish or in a cone but not under
your skis, head, face whatever. All of this was easily preventable and
great skiing should be what we are all writting about.
-----------
Grooming, is like surgery which requires a Doctor. It's not just a matter
of taking the machine and driving it over the top of the snow. It requires
the "snow to be worked". Packed, unpacked, allowed to dry, groomed so as to
catch blowing snows, using different pieces of equipment and different
weights and yes the upcoming warm temps will require a PHD. The past few
days weather, and temperatures, as well as the next several days weather and
temperatures as well as the time of day temperatures and humidity will
determine "where and when the incision should be made". Better call 9-1-1
-----

Hope this is helpful; I learned from it that it is tricky business! Note;
this year that park seems to be in much better shape!
gr



"Pieter Litchfield" wrote in message
...
I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and track
setter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4 miles

of
trails (free to the public).

I'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional

diagonal
x-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes the
snow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst of
all, feels like dirt in the spring!

But how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperature
probes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).
So I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some

guidelines
for grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow is
forecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easily
available data like snow temp, air temp, forecast, snow density, depths,
etc.

Can anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment of
snow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towards
avalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!

Just trying to do a better job for you guys...

The groomer




  #7  
Old January 20th 04, 04:43 AM
Scott Elliot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

A lot of grooming is more art than science. With fresh, powder snow falling
every day you may have to groom just about every day, and even then the snow
may have to be worked several times before it compacts enough to make a
solid track. On older or thinner snow you will not want to groom any more
than absolutely necessary to provide decent skiing because the snow will set
up too hard or wear through in some corners or hills. In freeze/thaw
conditions, the snow may become so wet during the day that it just balls up
on the machine if you try to groom during the day. At night it may then
freeze so hard you can't do much effective work. That only leaves a narrow
window in the evening and early morning when grooming is possible. (Who
said groomers are entitled to a good nights sleep.)

Our club is in western Canada and the grooming is quite different from the
east or even Alberta. You have to work out what works best in your local
conditions.

Scott Elliot
http://www3.telus.net/selliot/


  #8  
Old January 20th 04, 09:20 PM
Chris Cline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

--0-1798994772-1074633367=:54205
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Pieter-
One measurement you might be able to borrow from the avalanche forecasting folks is a concept known as "hand-hardness" Density (weight per volume of snow- usually trying to collect it without packing it) will tell you part of the "feel" of the snow, but hand-hardness relates to how cohesive it is.

The scale ranges from "fist" to "knife". "Fist" hardness means that you can stick your fist into the snow. An example of this would be well rotted depth hoar or "sugar snow", such as occurs when a thin snow layer sits under cold clear skies for a week or two. A well-sintered snow pack (packed either mechanically or naturally) typically needs a knife blade to punch through.

When I was an undergraduate, I tried to design a study (for a snow science class) that related density and hand-hardness measurements in some sort of consistent, "scientific" relationship, but failed, because there are quite a few variables involved. So, hand-hardness is just an addition to all those other tools and observations you are already using to get a handle on the science - and art- of grooming.

Good luck, and hope this is useful info. If you come up with something, I'd like to hear about it!

Chris Cline
SLC, UT

Pieter Litchfield wrote:
I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and track
setter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4 miles of
trails (free to the public).

I'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional diagonal
x-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes the
snow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst of
all, feels like dirt in the spring!

But how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperature
probes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).
So I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some guidelines
for grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow is
forecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easily
available data like snow temp, air temp, forecast, snow density, depths,
etc.

Can anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment of
snow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towards
avalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!

Just trying to do a better job for you guys...

The groomer







---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
--0-1798994772-1074633367=:54205
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

DIVHi Pieter-/DIV
DIVOne measurement you might be able to borrow from the avalanche forecasting folks is a concept known as "hand-hardness"  Density (weight per volume of snow- usually trying to collect it without packing it) will tell you part of the "feel" of the snow, but hand-hardness relates to how cohesive it is./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVThe scale ranges from "fist" to "knife".  "Fist" hardness means that you can stick your fist into the snow.  An example of this would be well rotted depth hoar or "sugar snow", such as occurs when a thin snow layer sits under cold clear skies for a week or two.  A well-sintered snow pack (packed either mechanically or naturally) typically needs a knife blade to punch through./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVWhen I was an undergraduate, I tried to design a study (for a snow science class) that related density and hand-hardness measurements in some sort of consistent, "scientific" relationship, but failed, because there are quite a few variables involved.  So, hand-hardness is just an addition to all those other tools and observations you are already using to get a handle on the science - and art- of grooming./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVGood luck, and hope this is useful info.  If you come up with something, I'd like to hear about it!/DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVChris Cline/DIV
DIVSLC, UTBRBRBIPieter Litchfield >/I/B wrote:/DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and trackBRsetter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4 miles ofBRtrails (free to the public).BRBRI'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional diagonalBRx-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes theBRsnow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst ofBRall, feels like dirt in the spring!BRBRBut how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperatureBRprobes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).BRSo I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some guidelinesBRfor grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow isBRforecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easilyBRavailable data like snow temp, air tem!
p,
forecast, snow density, depths,BRetc.BRBRCan anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment ofBRsnow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towardsBRavalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!BRBRJust trying to do a better job for you guys...BRBRThe groomerBRBRBRBRBRBR/BLOCKQUOTEphr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
Yahoo! Hotjobs: a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/evt=21482/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus"Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes/a
--0-1798994772-1074633367=:54205--




  #9  
Old January 21st 04, 12:14 PM
Pieter Litchfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

Thanks for the clues - if I ever figure out how the variables fit together,
I'll be happy to share. It appears there is some interest in this.

Many years ago (before there were plastic fish scales, skis were made of
wood and sheep were nervous), my girlfriend's father, a nationally known x-c
skiier, actually allowed me to see his personally compiled competition
waxing chart, but only after I swore that I would never reveal anything on
it to anyone else. It was complex, and the best part was that only he
"felt" the environmental relationships that lead to the right cell (wax
selection) in his charts. So it was completely useless to me or anyone
else. I don't expect I will "solve" the environmental variables relating to
grooming. But it would be nice to know what they are.

"Chris Cline" wrote in message
o.com...
--0-1798994772-1074633367=:54205
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Pieter-
One measurement you might be able to borrow from the avalanche forecasting

folks is a concept known as "hand-hardness" Density (weight per volume of
snow- usually trying to collect it without packing it) will tell you part of
the "feel" of the snow, but hand-hardness relates to how cohesive it is.

The scale ranges from "fist" to "knife". "Fist" hardness means that you

can stick your fist into the snow. An example of this would be well rotted
depth hoar or "sugar snow", such as occurs when a thin snow layer sits under
cold clear skies for a week or two. A well-sintered snow pack (packed
either mechanically or naturally) typically needs a knife blade to punch
through.

When I was an undergraduate, I tried to design a study (for a snow science

class) that related density and hand-hardness measurements in some sort of
consistent, "scientific" relationship, but failed, because there are quite a
few variables involved. So, hand-hardness is just an addition to all those
other tools and observations you are already using to get a handle on the
science - and art- of grooming.

Good luck, and hope this is useful info. If you come up with something,

I'd like to hear about it!

Chris Cline
SLC, UT

Pieter Litchfield wrote:
I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and track
setter around a nature preserve in upper NY state, grooming about 4 miles

of
trails (free to the public).

I'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a traditional diagonal
x-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I groom sometimes the
snow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow (mushy), or worst of
all, feels like dirt in the spring!

But how can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperature
probes, fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).
So I can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some

guidelines
for grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no new snow is
forecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related to easily
available data like snow temp, air temp, forecast, snow density, depths,
etc.

Can anyone steer me towards some web sites that focus on the measurment of
snow quality? A lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towards
avalanche forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!

Just trying to do a better job for you guys...

The groomer







---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
--0-1798994772-1074633367=:54205
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

DIVHi Pieter-/DIV
DIVOne measurement you might be able to borrow from the avalanche

forecasting folks is a concept known as "hand-hardness"  Density
(weight per volume of snow- usually trying to collect it without packing it)
will tell you part of the "feel" of the snow, but hand-hardness relates to
how cohesive it is./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVThe scale ranges from "fist" to "knife".  "Fist" hardness means

that you can stick your fist into the snow.  An example of this would
be well rotted depth hoar or "sugar snow", such as occurs when a thin snow
layer sits under cold clear skies for a week or two.  A well-sintered
snow pack (packed either mechanically or naturally) typically needs a knife
blade to punch through./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVWhen I was an undergraduate, I tried to design a study (for a snow

science class) that related density and hand-hardness measurements in some
sort of consistent, "scientific" relationship, but failed, because there are
quite a few variables involved.  So, hand-hardness is just an addition
to all those other tools and observations you are already using to get a
handle on the science - and art- of grooming./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVGood luck, and hope this is useful info.  If you come up with

something, I'd like to hear about it!/DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVChris Cline/DIV
DIVSLC, UTBRBRBIPieter Litchfield

>/I/B wrote:/DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;

BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"I'm a groomer - I (almost daily) drag a
Tidd-Tech "Tenderizer" and trackBRsetter around a nature preserve in upper
NY state, grooming about 4 miles ofBRtrails (free to the
public).BRBRI'm trying to get "scientific" about grooming. I am a
traditional diagonalBRx-c skier when I have the chance, and I know after I
groom sometimes theBRsnow just "feels good", feels fast (icy), feels slow
(mushy), or worst ofBRall, feels like dirt in the spring!BRBRBut how
can you quantitatively measure snow "feel"? I have temperatureBRprobes,
fiberglass rulers, a snow density gauge (percent water by weight).BRSo I
can do some measurements. My thought is I might create some
guidelinesBRfor grooming; for example, "If the trail density is XX% and no
new snow isBRforecast, then groom/don't groom." Guidelines must be related
to easilyBRavailable data like snow temp, air tem!
p,
forecast, snow density, depths,BRetc.BRBRCan anyone steer me

towards some web sites that focus on the measurment ofBRsnow quality? A
lot of snow density testing seems to be geared towardsBRavalanche
forecasting, which is not a problem in my flat terrain!BRBRJust trying
to do a better job for you guys...BRBRThe
groomerBRBRBRBRBRBR/BLOCKQUOTEphr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
Yahoo! Hotjobs: a

href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/
evt=21482/*http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus"Enter the
"Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes/a
--0-1798994772-1074633367=:54205--






  #10  
Old January 21st 04, 03:39 PM
taywood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Measuring the quality of snow

Dont you wish grooming was as easy as this?

http://kuvat.kpo.fi/kuva.jpg

Its the ski tunnel at Vuokatti Finland and at 5.35pm today their time
the groomer was in picture.
Mike


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavy Snow Warning AstroPax Snowboarding 0 April 18th 04 12:11 AM
Skiing in Utah BRL Nordic Skiing 5 November 25th 03 07:43 PM
SNOW ... ROAD TRIP ! J999w Nordic Skiing 3 November 14th 03 04:25 PM
snow no-one European Ski Resorts 0 October 29th 03 08:27 PM
Whistler snow! VIP Mountain Holidays Snowboarding 1 September 16th 03 09:08 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SkiBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.