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question about ski marketing



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 22nd 04, 06:42 PM
Monique Y. Mudama
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Default question about ski marketing

Is a ski designated "black diamond," "expert," etc always stiffer than one in
the same line designated "blue-black", "advanced," etc?

I'm trying to figure out what the ski industry means by "more advanced ski."

--
monique
Longmont, CO

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  #2  
Old December 22nd 04, 07:08 PM
lal_truckee
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
Is a ski designated "black diamond," "expert," etc always stiffer than one in
the same line designated "blue-black", "advanced," etc?

I'm trying to figure out what the ski industry means by "more advanced ski."


IMO they really mean "More Expensive."

What they SHOULD mean is stiffer in torsion (note: not necessarily
stiffer longitudinaly.)

A torsionally stiffer ski will hold an edge better, but be less
forgiving, and is therefore for advanced skiers - a more advanced ski.

A torsionally softer ski will wash out it's edge under skier pressure
allowing the ski to slip if the skier is less precise in line selection
- i.e. "forgive" the skier for errors, and is therefore a less advanced ski.

The big revolution in skis [usually (and mistakenly) called the "shaped
ski" revolution] was really a revolution in materials that allowed a
longitudinally softer ski to be made torsionally stiff. Formerly
torsionally stiffness was achieved by adding overall stiffness,
including longitudinal stiffness, meaning expert skis were stiff and
hard to turn.

The new materials meant an expert skier could get edge hold in shorter,
softer skis, and the revolution was on. (For history buffs, Authier
early applied the tech to their line which became a huge cult hit - the
interesting thing is they didn't change the shape or length - just the
construction and resulting softer flex, and people loved it.)

  #3  
Old December 22nd 04, 09:23 PM
Bruno Melli
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In article ,
"Monique Y. Mudama" writes:
I'm trying to figure out what the ski industry means by "more advanced ski."


Monique, I think you are making this way too hard. At this rate you'll
never get new skis. And if you do, you'll always have second thoughts. (are
you an engineer by any chance ? :-)

Here' I'll make it easy for you:

Just go get some Rossignol Bandit B2. Everybody around here
knows that Rossi makes the best skis in the world. But more importantly,
my wife has a pair which she loves.

bruno.

  #4  
Old December 22nd 04, 09:37 PM
Monique Y. Mudama
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On 2004-12-22, Bruno Melli penned:
In article , "Monique Y. Mudama"
writes:
I'm trying to figure out what the ski industry means by "more advanced
ski."


Monique, I think you are making this way too hard. At this rate you'll never
get new skis. And if you do, you'll always have second thoughts. (are you an
engineer by any chance ? :-)


Yeah, I'm an engineer. I also find researching this kind of stuff to be half
the fun. I enjoy this time, when I've made no decision and all options are
open to me. Every ski is potentially mine.

Eventually, I'll make a decision, but I see no reason to hurry it.

Anyway, what's wrong with trying to understand the descriptions on skis?

Here' I'll make it easy for you:

Just go get some Rossignol Bandit B2. Everybody around here knows that Rossi
makes the best skis in the world. But more importantly, my wife has a pair
which she loves.


Hrm. Never tried Rossis.

I don't know about getting them. I might try them, though. I'll put them on
my list. They seem a little sparse on lengths -- only 160, 170, and 176. I'd
like to see a 166. What length does your wife have, and how tall is she?

--
monique
Longmont, CO

  #5  
Old December 22nd 04, 09:45 PM
lal_truckee
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:


Every ski is potentially mine.


Every ski IS potentially yours forever.

If you miss them when they're new, you can try them later when they cost
$5 with good bindings at a garage sale...

All you need to learn is how to evaluate used skis (hint: the easiest
first step is to judge the thickness of the edge metal - too thin,
they've been stone-ground to death and won't ski like they used to -
original thickness they are hardly used and will ski exactly as new.)

If you demo eveery chance you get and have a good memory, you can build
a quiver of $5 skis that you coveted, and have every possible condition
and situation covered.

  #6  
Old December 22nd 04, 10:00 PM
Dave_in_Spokane
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Bruno Melli wrote:


Here' I'll make it easy for you:

Just go get some Rossignol Bandit B2. Everybody around here
knows that Rossi makes the best skis in the world. But more importantly,
my wife has a pair which she loves.

bruno.

Ah, don't believe a word Bruno says. He just likes Rossi's 'cause his
have a picture of a half nekkid woman on them.

  #7  
Old December 22nd 04, 10:03 PM
lal_truckee
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Dave_in_Spokane wrote:
Bruno Melli wrote:


Here' I'll make it easy for you:

Just go get some Rossignol Bandit B2. Everybody around here
knows that Rossi makes the best skis in the world. But more importantly,
my wife has a pair which she loves.

bruno.

Ah, don't believe a word Bruno says. He just likes Rossi's 'cause his
have a picture of a half nekkid woman on them.


Where is the other half? Is this a Dahmer story?

  #8  
Old December 22nd 04, 11:12 PM
Bruno Melli
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Default

In article ,
lal_truckee writes:
Where is the other half? Is this a Dahmer story?


http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2004/pictures/DSC_5624.html
Look at the base of my ski...

bruno.

  #9  
Old December 22nd 04, 11:31 PM
Bruno Melli
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In article ,
"Monique Y. Mudama" writes:
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to understand the descriptions on skis?


Nothing, I used to do that all the time.
But you can't trust manufacturers descriptions, and you can't
trust magazine reviews. So it is a lot of data that doesn't really tells
you how you are going to like a ski. So now I rely more on local knowledge.
Usually shop employees have a favorite because they have access to all of
them. You just need to be interacting on a different level than as a
potential customer so that you don't get the party line.

What length does your wife have, and how tall is she?


I don't remember, but they are about eye level. 5cm doesn't make that much of
a noticeable difference in a recreational ski, unless you try them
one right after the other. Especially since different manufacturers seem to
measure differently...
In a day of skiing you'd most likely have places where you wished your
skis were a bit shorter, and other times you wished they were a bit longer.
Your body learns to adapt.

bruno.

  #10  
Old December 23rd 04, 01:09 AM
BrritSki
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Bruno Melli wrote:
In article ,
"Monique Y. Mudama" writes:

I'm trying to figure out what the ski industry means by "more advanced ski."



Monique, I think you are making this way too hard. At this rate you'll
never get new skis. And if you do, you'll always have second thoughts. (are
you an engineer by any chance ? :-)

Here' I'll make it easy for you:

Just go get some Rossignol Bandit B2. Everybody around here
knows that Rossi makes the best skis in the world. But more importantly,
my wife has a pair which she loves.

Yup, that's what I decided on...

 




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