ride flat, without an edge.

(=JT=) wrote in message . com...
I have been having trouble going flat and straight on my board. i am
unable to be stable when i point the board straight ahead and go
totally flat. i always have to keep a slight heal or toe edge. if i
do go flat it seems that my back wants to come around and then i catch
an edge and take a tumble. is this normal? do most of you also have
to keep a slight edge when bombing a run? I ride a Palmer Honeycomb
165. Thanks for any help.

I think it's normal, and I remeber a time when I was terrified to let
the board go flat when I had a little speed. But, at some point things
just *clicked* and now it's effortless to let the board run totally
flat without fear of catching an edge.

As a preliminary, what's your "home" position on the board? I think
your hips and shoulders should be relaxed and centered... no rotation
toward one side or the other. My stance is 30/21 so for me that ends
up with my shoulders roughly perpendicular to my front foot.

Now, if you've never done this drill, try doing a few runs keeping
your hands down by your hips, and no moving your upper body. No
twisting to face one way or the other, and definately no kicking the
tail of the board around to turn. If you've never tried this, it can
be surprisingly hard, so do it on a mellow slope.

What does this have to do with running flat? Once you've done this a
bit, you'll learn how to steer the board just by where your weight is.
And that's what you need to have a feel for to keep the board gliding
flat without catching an edge. I can't think of any other specific
advice... but with myself, once I had a feel for it, it became totally
no problem to lay the board flat no matter what speed.

Once you've got a feel for this no moving your upper body drill, go
ahead and loosen up again. I find it most comfortable to turn my upper
body into each turn a little bit, and use a very slight push out to
start each turn. Both these should be very suble though, very gentle.
If your turns feel like a smooth flow, you've got it.

At my local mountain, there's quite a few places where you need to
keep a lot of speed to get up a rise and get where you want to go.
Necessity breeds ability. If you have to hike every time you mess up,
you learn to let the board go flat and fast real soon.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:27:22 -0000, "Mike M. Miskulin"
wrote:


Can I totally disagree with you (and others) about riding flat?
IMHO one should *alwyas* ride on an edge.

You're welcome to your opinion but the experience of others including
me is quite different. It took me 4 years, but in most conditions I
now ride totally flat on cat tracks and rarely catch an edge. "Muscle
memory" takes over in time and allows automatic adjustment when the
board starts to grab. Even keeping a slight edge on a long cat track
induces leg fatigue. Better to ride flat if you are able.

-- Robert

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:23:14 GMT, "Mike T"
wrote:

[Excellent advice snipped]

I also keep my edges detuned about 2" from the contact point front and
rear, and use 1-degree base and side bevels. Works for me.

-- Robert

(=JT=) wrote in message . com...
if i
do go flat it seems that my back wants to come around and then i catch
an edge and take a tumble. is this normal?

There can only be two reasons for your board wanting to come around
(or a combination of both):

1. too much weight on the back foot. Transfer your weight to your
front foot instead by pulling the board under you towards your back foot.
Remember, the heaviest part wants to go first. So if you have more weight
on your front foot, that's the part that will lead.

2. misaligned (or twisted) stance. If your hips and upper body
are facing forward, your lower body (with your board) will want
to realign causing a turn. If your stance is +30 and 0, your hips
should be turned somewhere between, let's say +15 degrees forward.
This way you will not apply any rotational force on your board.

So remember: feet flat, knees bent, hips and shoulders aligned,
back straight and your arms relaxed at your sides. You'll do fine.
Practice, and good luck!

"Mike M. Miskulin" wrote in message 4...
Can I totally disagree with you (and others) about riding flat?
IMHO one should *alwyas* ride on an edge.

Mike, seems like you have taken a few bad falls, and now
the fear is talking. I agree with you that riding on an edge
is safe, but it doesn't mean one should never ride flat.

It's like saying staying home is safer than going out,
so let's never go out. Riding flat has its places, and knowing
this skill will make you a more well rounded boarder.

if i
do go flat it seems that my back wants to come around and then i catch
an edge and take a tumble. is this normal?

I'm a grasshopper, so I'm only really flat on more tame gradients. But, I did
read some advice which helped, that being when flat, it's sometimes good to let
the board "go where it want to" - at least to some degree. It can be easier to
catch the edge if you're tense and trying too hard, but if you relax you can
more readily react to things if you do feel a sudden dig.

"Sharkie" wrote in message
om...
"Mike M. Miskulin" wrote in message
4...
Can I totally disagree with you (and others) about riding flat?
IMHO one should *alwyas* ride on an edge.

Mike, seems like you have taken a few bad falls, and now
the fear is talking. I agree with you that riding on an edge
is safe, but it doesn't mean one should never ride flat.

I agree with mike, and I've tumbled bad ONCE. I'm not going to fall at
80km/hr again, after a certain speed riding flat is stupid. When you're at
top speed you dont ride flat, you can't, when an edge starts to catch you
don't have time to adjust, you just get slammed. Now when riding slower,
trying to carry speed through flats, etc, yes, ride flat. At low speed you
can sense the edge grabbing and unweight the board and lift the leading edge
in time. I would say after about 30km/hr I would never ride flat. If you
know which edge you're on and you're paying attention then you wont crash.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:26:44 -0700, "evil2thecore" mother****er
wrote:

"Sharkie" wrote in message
. com...
"Mike M. Miskulin" wrote in message
. 44...
Can I totally disagree with you (and others) about riding flat?
IMHO one should *alwyas* ride on an edge.

Mike, seems like you have taken a few bad falls, and now
the fear is talking. I agree with you that riding on an edge
is safe, but it doesn't mean one should never ride flat.

I agree with mike, and I've tumbled bad ONCE. I'm not going to fall at
80km/hr again, after a certain speed riding flat is stupid. When you're at
top speed you dont ride flat, you can't, when an edge starts to catch you
don't have time to adjust, you just get slammed. Now when riding slower,
trying to carry speed through flats, etc, yes, ride flat. At low speed you
can sense the edge grabbing and unweight the board and lift the leading edge
in time. I would say after about 30km/hr I would never ride flat. If you
know which edge you're on and you're paying attention then you wont crash.

OK, please tell me this mythical speed at which one no longer rides
flat? If I'm looking to carry speed for a flat section, I'll keep my
board flat unless I'm actively turning. I'm riding hard boots and a
Donek Axis 178, so I suspect I go a bit faster than most snowboarders,
and I'm also very aware of what my edges are doing.
Riding with the board flat is a skill like anything else. It takes
practice to learn, but can be done.

Jeremiah

(Sharkie) wrote in message . com...

Remember, the heaviest part wants to go first.

In automotive terms, oversteer or understeer. The heavier end of the
car will tend to aim at the outside of a curve.

Most cars are designed to understeer to an extent. In the case of cars
that have an engine up front, especially cars with front wheel drive,
the front of the car will tend to aim at the outside of a curve. To
correct this tendency, the driver applies more effort to turn the
steering wheel into the curve, thus bringing the car's path back into
alignment with the road. The reaction is a normal one.

The opposite is true of rear engine cars, such as a Porsche 911, which
have a tendency to oversteer. The rear end of the car is heavier than
the front end of the car, so the rear end of the car will tend to head
to the outside of a curve. To correct this tendency, the driver has to
make an extremely unnatural reaction - he turns the steering wheel so
that the car aims away from the path of the curve. The result is often
that the car is wrecked.

The classic method by which a Porsche 911 wrecks is for the back of
the car to break loose and for the car to end up in the trees, rear
end first, on the outside of the curve.

I've left out a lot of details and fine print in this message.

"evil2thecore" mother****er wrote

Can I totally disagree with you (and others) about riding flat?
IMHO one should *alwyas* ride on an edge.

I agree with mike, and I've tumbled bad ONCE. I'm not going to fall at
80km/hr again, after a certain speed riding flat is stupid. When you're at
top speed you dont ride flat, you can't, when an edge starts to catch you
don't have time to adjust, you just get slammed.

Dunno what you people are talkin about. Riding flat at any speed wasn't
a problem for me for quite some time. In fact, if I want to just bomb down
and the terrain is bumpy, riding flat keeps better balance than riding in
a big-radius carve because you don't have to deal with lateral forces at
all.