Driving from Alta to Heavenly

"Dmitry" wrote in message
newsrcfd.527379$8_6.466995@attbi_s04...

"AH" wrote

What is the deal with chains? I'm from Australia, but live in London,
and as it rarely snows in both places, I have never really driven in
snow..

At what point should you put them on? If there is 2 inches of snow on
the ground is it really necessary to fit them at that point?

Two things: without them you may just get stuck or you may
loose control and get into an accident.

Some suggestions:
- Try to rent a Subaru or some other 4x4. It can be done but it's
not very common though.
- Be super extra very cautios, it's people who don't have experience
with driving in the snow who get in trouble most of the time.
Really, I'm inclined to repeat this three times because it's that
bad.

As for your actual question.. Whenever it gets icy or there's a
chance for getting ice on the mountain road (around freezing
point conditions), and when it dumps heavily.


Thanks for the advice.. I'll certainly be really careful.. I'm not a crazy
driver on normal roads, so if I'm in the snow I will certainly be taking my
time..

AH wrote:
"pigo" wrote in message
...

"Dmitry" wrote in message
news:mKafd.314194$3l3.65114@attbi_s03...


This is quite strange, chains/cables are, among other things, a safety
device. I'd imagine rental companies will get suied in a blink of an eye
if they prohibit chain installation..

Most people are too stupid to instal them properly.


What kind of car is he renting? Subaru wagon or FWD with snowtires should
eliminate the need for chains anyway.


I am renting a Dodge Stratus.. I have no idea what that is, however it seems
a little bigger than compact, and its cheap at under $300 for 3 weeks.. but
its not FWD, and we're picking it up from LA, so I doubt it will have snow
tires..

The Dodge Stratus is a FWD (Front Wheel Drive) and will have "snow
tires" - i.e. the tires will almost certainly have "M&S" on the sidewall
- Mud and Snow. Almost all auto tires in the US are M&S labeled. This is
not the same a a big lug honest-to-gawd snow tire, but will get you
through the check points in certain conditions. But then again Pigo is
in SLC area where FWD and S&M tires will get the good driver through
most anything - it's different in the Sierra - we have real weather, and
our 6 inches of snow on the road is about 4 inches of water, not .01
inch of water like Youtaw fluff...

Like I said before, don't even worry about it until you reach Reno and
hear some radio reports on conditions. It's easy enough to buy chains at
the last minute.

The Real Bev wrote:
Dmitry wrote:

"Walt" wrote


I thought car rental companies frowned on the use of chains,

Yes they do. They also frown on driving on unpaved (dirt) roads.
What they don't know won't hurt them. But you could be in trouble if
they find out.

This is quite strange, chains/cables are, among other things, a safety
device. I'd imagine rental companies will get suied in a blink of an eye
if they prohibit chain installation..


Perhaps they prohibit driving their cars in areas where chain
installation is required.


apparently real made-out-of-real-chain chains don't fit in the
wheel-wells of modern cars.

I think it depends on the car.

A lot of expensive cars, esp. with sport package/big wheels don't
have enough clearence for chains. But cheaper ones that are
the bulk of what rental companies offer should not be a problem.


Aren't the ones with cable on the sides and what look like aluminum
beads on the tread surface supposed to work? Painful closure method,
at least those nasty red things on conventional chains didn't slice your
fingers open and could be dealt with nicely with Channellocks if they
gave trouble.

Sort of. But don't buy them, just pick them up alongside the road. Cable
"chains" fall off regularly and are free for the taking. Plus they
really don't work worth a dam anyway.

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...
AH wrote:
"pigo" wrote in message
...

"Dmitry" wrote in message
news:mKafd.314194$3l3.65114@attbi_s03...


This is quite strange, chains/cables are, among other things, a safety
device. I'd imagine rental companies will get suied in a blink of an
eye
if they prohibit chain installation..

Most people are too stupid to instal them properly.


What kind of car is he renting? Subaru wagon or FWD with snowtires should
eliminate the need for chains anyway.


I am renting a Dodge Stratus.. I have no idea what that is, however it
seems a little bigger than compact, and its cheap at under $300 for 3
weeks.. but its not FWD, and we're picking it up from LA, so I doubt it
will have snow tires..

The Dodge Stratus is a FWD (Front Wheel Drive) and will have "snow
tires" - i.e. the tires will almost certainly have "M&S" on the sidewall -
Mud and Snow. Almost all auto tires in the US are M&S labeled. This is not
the same a a big lug honest-to-gawd snow tire, but will get you through
the check points in certain conditions. But then again Pigo is in SLC area
where FWD and S&M tires will get the good driver through most anything -
it's different in the Sierra - we have real weather, and our 6 inches of
snow on the road is about 4 inches of water, not .01 inch of water like
Youtaw fluff...

Like I said before, don't even worry about it until you reach Reno and
hear some radio reports on conditions. It's easy enough to buy chains at
the last minute.

Ahh.. of course.. for some reason I thought AWD when I say FWD.. anyway..
this is all good news.. what is the Stratus like in general? Are they OK?

Dmitry wrote:
"AH" wrote


Also, I'm hiring a car in LA (we're doing a 3 week trip going out as far as SLC) and I need to get some snow chains. Just need
them to last three weeks.. anyone got a suggestion about where to buy some cheap ones?

Man, more than 10 hours.. thats going to kill me.. gonna have a 6am start then I guess.. can't waste an extra day, otherwise that
will be one less day on the slopes..


If there's night skiing at Heavenly (I don't remember, but Squaw
has night skiing for sure and you'll have to drive by anyway),
so if you start early enough you might still make some tracks
that day.

Squaw is nowhere near Heavenly. Squaw is 80 out of Reno, Heavenly is 50,
through Carson City.

On the other hand, the Original Poster is screwing up royal going to
south Tahoe instead of north Tahoe, but why should I point that out and
crowd up our superior slopes with another couple of bodies...



And by no means it's wasted time - the scenery is pretty
spectacular.

Indeed.

"pigo" wrote in message
...

"AH" wrote in message
o.uk...


Thanks for your advice..

What is the deal with chains? I'm from Australia, but live in London,
and as it rarely snows in both places, I have never really driven in
snow..

If that's the case, I would feel better if you left the driving to public
transportation if chains are required. They should be running to get you
to skiing. If the roads (interstates) are that bad postpone or pull over.

At what point should you put them on? If there is 2 inches of snow on
the ground is it really necessary to fit them at that point?

They let you know.

What kind of car are you getting? Good snow tires and moderation of speed
should do you just fine. AWD would be nice if you can afford it but not
necessary.

Maybe we can ski a day or have a beer while you're here (SLC)?

pigo


I'm staying at the Cliff Lodge in Snowbird while I'm in SLC.. and near the
gondola in Heavenly.. so I really have to drive to the slopes myself..

I'm getting a Dodge Stratus.. hopefully it'll be OK..

A beer sounds good, however I'm only there mid week for a couple of days..
I'll be there on the 6th and 7th of December.. if you'll be around give me
an email at:

ski at a/n-d_r e(w_h+u_t-chinson.net

Just remove all those non alpha characters..

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...
Dmitry wrote:
"AH" wrote
On the other hand, the Original Poster is screwing up royal going to south
Tahoe instead of north Tahoe, but why should I point that out and crowd up
our superior slopes with another couple of bodies...

Squaw was number 1 on the list, however I got a really good deal.. $220
total for 2 nights at the Tahoe seasons and 2 days lift passes for 2
people.. other places really couldn't come close to that price.. and I'm
sure Heavenly will be sufficient for me for only two days.. it'll give me a
taste so I have an idea where to come back to..

"pigo" wrote in message
...

"AH" wrote in message
o.uk...


Man, more than 10 hours.. thats going to kill me.. gonna have a 6am start
then I guess.. can't waste an extra day, otherwise that will be one less
day on the slopes.


Leave after skiing and do 1/2 and 1/2. You'll still get a 1/2 day in
Tahoe. It's an easy drive. Long but easy.


Probably a good idea, however I don't like driving after skiing if possible
(hot tub and a few beers is something I look forward to).. I'll just have to
get up early and go hard for a day..

AH wrote:

Ahh.. of course.. for some reason I thought AWD when I say FWD.. anyway..
this is all good news..

There's actually a subtle difference between Four Wheel Drive and All
Wheel Drive that escapes me at the moment. Subaru makes a big deal out
of the fact that their cars are AWD not 4WD. The common TLAs are

4WD Four Wheel Drive
AWD All Wheel Drive
FWD Front Wheel Drive
RWD Rear Wheel Drive

Send in your membership application with the box tops and we'll send you
the decoder ring.

what is the Stratus like in general? Are they OK?

Yes, they're OK. I wouldn't buy one, but I'll gladly rent one.
Especially at $100/week.
See http://makeashorterlink.com/?A6C012D99


--
//-Walt
//
// Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community

"uglymoney" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:41:32 GMT, "AH" wrote:
Yes. There is somewhere to buy chains in Reno 24/7. We had to stop
and buy some at Wal-Mart (i think, or a similarly distateful bigbox)
at around 2:00 am once. No problem. Pick up some bungie cords while
there. Use the bungies (2 per wheel usually) to tighten cables so
they won't ruin the wheelwell of rental.

In our case in 1998, by the time we had reached the passes over to S.
Lake Tahoe, they had nobody checking for chains with the sign still
saying we needed them, but we didn't bother of course... on I-80 over
Donner they mean business. Put them on or rent 4wd if they signs are
flashing.

I've seen only flurries coming accross Nevada; neve
needed chains. Since it's a long way and all pretty much the same
exposure, so if chains were required accross Nevada it'd probably be for
200+ miles; you don't want to do that: hole up in a motel and wait a
day -
it'll melt.


Also, I'm hiring a car in LA (we're doing a 3 week trip going out as
far
as SLC) and I need to get some snow chains. Just need them to last
three
weeks.. anyone got a suggestion about where to buy some cheap ones?

Man, more than 10 hours.. thats going to kill me.. gonna have a 6am start
then I guess.. can't waste an extra day, otherwise that will be one less
day
on the slopes..


If you can afford it try to rent a car with XM satellite radio or
somehow get your hands on a unit. I think avis offers it on their
premium or luxury cars. You'll basically be listening to nothing
otherwise across much of the west.

I've driven across Nevada numerous times. It is almost always
passable even in storms. Its a high desert. At worst it will be a
blizzard on the top of some passes with ice, and snowing down low, but
unless a semi jackknifes and blocks things up, you should make it
through unless you are really hopelessly unable to drive on slippery
roads, which is possible in your case.

Go slow. In order to avoid a skid at all cost keep a large following
distance. Lane changes should be smooth and turns should be extremely
low g. Don't brake hard, or accelerate hard. If you do skid, steer
into it to regain control. Remember that the tires with the least
traction always lead. If you are driving a front wheel drive car that
means that if the rear end breaks loose and starts to come around in a
skid, giving the vehicle gas will cause the front tires to skid, and
it will likely slow the skid and allow you to compensate and correct
for it by steering into the skid. On a rear drive car, try to
maintain an exact nuetral throttle in order to allow the wheels to
regain traction. On a 4wd car, slight positive accelaration is often
your best bet. If you happen to skid and have lost control, but your
momentum is taking you in a safe direction, lock your brakes to
proceed in a straight line till either you stop, or you impact
whatever it was that you decided was softer than the semi.

If you have never driven in snow, and it snows, find an open parking
lot spin around a few times to learn the tricks of the trade.

If the massive semi trucks start to scare you on I-80, or more likely
blind you as they go past especially in a tailwind situation where the
rooster tail of snow that they throw up will likely blind you for the
better part of a 1/16 of a miles, pull off, sleep for an hour or two
or three or all night till it gets better. No matter how good a
driver one is, it is almost always the other drivers that determine
when you should pull off the road.

You run into the chain issue once you hit the Sierra Nevada's, only
the last hour or so of travel on what should be for you a pretty
modestly traveled road.

nate

Thanks for the advice.. I did numerous searches on google, and google groups
for this type of information and came across almost nothing.. at least it'll
be archived now for the next person..