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Has "C-Shaped" Double Poling Led to Increase In Spine Injuries?
One aspect of "New Skate" technique I'm completely neutral on his the
"new" way to double pole. To quote Justin Freeman's article in FasterSkier: "You initiate the movement with your shoulder and hips forward, so that your spine looks approximately like a letter “C.” The motion is initiated by an activation of the abs which moves the hips and shoulders towards one another, squishing the “C.”." A notable aspect of this desription is that it leads to repeated spine flexion against a load. Recent research seems to be saying this is a great way to damage your discs (Stuart McGill is the researcher I"m thinking of). While the range of motion is relatively small in double poling, I'm wondering if there's been any noticeable increase in back problems? (A related interesting point is that many strength coaches (e.g., Mike Boyle) have now eliminated any type of crunch motions at all, and limit development of abs to using them as stabilizers (e.g., Plank, ab wheel) versus movers.) Jon |
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Has "C-Shaped" Double Poling Led to Increase In Spine Injuries?
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Has "C-Shaped" Double Poling Led to Increase In Spine Injuries?
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Has "C-Shaped" Double Poling Led to Increase In Spine Injuries?
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:15:35 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 06:44:45 -0800 (PST), wrote: A notable aspect of this desription is that it leads to repeated spine flexion against a load. Recent research seems to be saying this is a great way to damage your discs (Stuart McGill is the researcher I"m thinking of). Is that research with the being moved in as in skiing, or being pushed upwards? For sure, pushing up with the spine curved is risking injury, but I hadn't heard of danger the other way. Excuse me, I meant is this research with the force being directed downwards, in the direction as in skiing (a chopping or pulling movement), or with the force upwards? |
#6
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Has "C-Shaped" Double Poling Led to Increase In Spine Injuries?
"Excuse me, I meant is this research with the force being directed
downwards, in the direction as in skiing (a chopping or pulling movement), or with the force upwards? I checked the sources I was thinking of ("Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance") , and it's definitely the crunch motion against a load that also caused an increase in herniations. And it seems it was originally thought that full flexion was required to cause herniation, but recent paper in "Spine" said repeated flexion in the "mid-range" also causes problems (I didn't see this directly--my chiropractor told me about it). In terms of what's going on with a traditional double pole, I always thought the hip flexors played a big role, while the abs just stabilized things. This seems similar to using an ab wheel at the point you pull the wheel back to you--abs get an amazing workout but spine is still perfectly straight. Jon |
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Has "C-Shaped" Double Poling Led to Increase In Spine Injuries?
For a guy who was skeptical about the 'new skate,' I'd thought
chiropractors wouldn't be a reference. ;-) The point about the spine is well taken, tho I don't know the answer. Research in recent years has been finding that some common back exercises that were thought to be good, such as back raises, and side-to-side movements of the knees while on one's back, actually do damage (degenerative changes) to the spine/back over the long haul. I can't site you any sources, but do seem to recall an article that Gina Kolata (NYT) or another reporter did sometime back. One of the reasons the traditional d-p is no longer recommended was because of the incidence of back injuries. Gene wrote: "Excuse me, I meant is this research with the force being directed downwards, in the direction as in skiing (a chopping or pulling movement), or with the force upwards? I checked the sources I was thinking of ("Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance") , and it's definitely the crunch motion against a load that also caused an increase in herniations. And it seems it was originally thought that full flexion was required to cause herniation, but recent paper in "Spine" said repeated flexion in the "mid-range" also causes problems (I didn't see this directly--my chiropractor told me about it). In terms of what's going on with a traditional double pole, I always thought the hip flexors played a big role, while the abs just stabilized things. This seems similar to using an ab wheel at the point you pull the wheel back to you--abs get an amazing workout but spine is still perfectly straight. Jon |
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