Heliboarding in Russia

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:17:46 GMT, Si
allegedly wrote:

Passport control/immigration in Russian was considerably more
pleasant and easier than in the USA. Nobody wanted my ****ing
fingerprints, for starters...

What ? You got printed going into the states ? Maybe you should leave
the kilo of coke at home next time eh ? :P

Do keep up. It's all part of the US-VISIT program brought about by
the DHS. Even travellers who are part of the Visa Waiver Program are
required to have both index fingers printed and have their photo taken.
So that makes it pretty much everyone.[1] Allegedly this was in
response to those countries not included biometric data in passports.
Of course, now the US government have these powers and control, who
knows if they'll be relinguished once biometrics are included in
passports.

Search for US-VISIT on the DHS website for more info.

[1] Except US citizens, possibly Canadians, and maybe state officials -
Can you imagine them fingerprinting the leader of another country?

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow -
Securing your e-mail

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://rssFAQ.org/

Do keep up. It's all part of the US-VISIT program brought about
by
the DHS. Even travellers who are part of the Visa Waiver Program are
required to have both index fingers printed and have their photo
taken.
So that makes it pretty much everyone.[1] Allegedly this was in
response to those countries not included biometric data in passports.

Of course, now the US government have these powers and control, who
knows if they'll be relinguished once biometrics are included in
passports.

Search for US-VISIT on the DHS website for more info.

[1] Except US citizens, possibly Canadians, and maybe state officials
-
Can you imagine them fingerprinting the leader of another country?

- Dave.

--

Since 2001 there have been no serious airline security breaches in the
USA and also no terrorist events, thank god. How's Russia doing?

On 1 Mar 2005 08:45:02 -0800, "og" wrote:

Do keep up. It's all part of the US-VISIT program brought about by
the DHS. Even travellers who are part of the Visa Waiver Program are
required to have both index fingers printed and have their photo taken.
So that makes it pretty much everyone.[1] Allegedly this was in
response to those countries not included biometric data in passports.

Of course, now the US government have these powers and control, who
knows if they'll be relinguished once biometrics are included in
passports.

Search for US-VISIT on the DHS website for more info.

Since 2001 there have been no serious airline security breaches in the
USA and also no terrorist events, thank god. How's Russia doing?

Your statement assumes that there have been no such events in the US
*because* of the new security regime. In which case, show me the
terrorists who were caught.

It seems to me that the terrorists aim is to destroy our way of life.
Which they're are managing very successfully via the loss of freedom
and human rights being enacted in the name of "fighting terrorism".
--
Champ

So you ski in North America during which you get stopped by the police
and released without incident, then return to Europe and Ski in Russia
and yet your freedom is compromised by being fingerprinted? How so?

Your statement assumes that there have been no such events in the US
*because* of the new security regime.

My statement assumes nothing but the truth. So again I'll ask you.
How's Russia doing?

"Meanwhile, Russia's security and intelligence system is organized as
such that the relatively small number of terror attacks can be
attributed only to the terrorists' weak logistical base.

Unfortunately, these catastrophes result from the poor organization
work of law enforcement agencies and security services in Chechnya. In
Russia, responsibility for the security of public transport systems is
borne by the Internal Affairs Water and Air Transport Directorate. Over
the past five years, however, half of its staff officers have not been
doing their regular jobs because they have had to serve month-long
tours of duty in the North Caucasus."

http://www.agentura.ru/english/press...ts/mn/crashes/

Makes me feel safe! How about you?


It seems to me that the terrorists aim is to destroy our way of life.
Which they're are managing very successfully via the loss of freedom
and human rights being enacted in the name of "fighting terrorism".

So you ski in North Amerca, get stopped by the police and released
without incident, return to Europe and ski in Russia yet your way of
life is "being destroyed"?

Champ wrote in
:

Here's some photos, of variable quality. Maybe a write-up will
follow
if I get a spare hour or two:

www.champ.org.uk/boards/images/Russia%202005


wow..flying in russian heli's.. I've read their
military stuff can take a lot of abuse but have
to wonder about maintenance of stuff.. though I
suppose the pilot has a vested interest to make
sure its done

og wrote:
Your statement assumes that there have been no such events in the US
*because* of the new security regime.


My statement assumes nothing but the truth. So again I'll ask you.
How's Russia doing?

"Meanwhile, Russia's security and intelligence system is organized as
such that the relatively small number of terror attacks can be
attributed only to the terrorists' weak logistical base.

Unfortunately, these catastrophes result from the poor organization
work of law enforcement agencies and security services in Chechnya. In
Russia, responsibility for the security of public transport systems is
borne by the Internal Affairs Water and Air Transport Directorate. Over
the past five years, however, half of its staff officers have not been
doing their regular jobs because they have had to serve month-long
tours of duty in the North Caucasus."

http://www.agentura.ru/english/press...ts/mn/crashes/

Makes me feel safe! How about you?



It seems to me that the terrorists aim is to destroy our way of life.
Which they're are managing very successfully via the loss of freedom
and human rights being enacted in the name of "fighting terrorism".


So you ski in North Amerca, get stopped by the police and released
without incident, return to Europe and ski in Russia yet your way of
life is "being destroyed"?


Erm, because they have succeeded in making us change our way of life.
Its not that hard to understand is it. Its not the fingerprinting as an
isolated thing. It is the bigger picture and the way it opens up ( or
closes ) other avenues. I know few americans that are happy with the way
their country is changing. The terrorists *have* succeeded, in part, at
least, in one of their primary goals. That is to cause disruption and
unrest in our lifes. Is their no unrest or disruption over the
implementation of homeland security in the US. I know the UK is
certainly not the mirror like millpond where many aspects of foreign and
domestic policy is concerned.

I am not a big fan of having my liberties and freedoms taken away from
me. im not arguing whether these measures are good, bad, effective or
inneffective. the fact is our liberty is slowly but surely being eroded.
I dont think anyone could honestly argue that they are not. Anyway this
is waaaay OT. The only finguring that *should* be appropriate on a
boarding holiday is the middle digit of displeasure to gaudily dressed
obnoxious skiers ( just kidding ) and the ones you hold up to indicate
the desired number of beers.

Si

On 1 Mar 2005 11:56:28 -0800, "og" wrote:

So you ski in North America during which you get stopped by the police
and released without incident, then return to Europe and Ski in Russia
and yet your freedom is compromised by being fingerprinted? How so?

That's a big piece of bait you're trying to swallow there, Steve. I
was merely noting the irony that Russian immigration appears to be
less onerous than that of the USA right now. Of course, I had to jump
through some administrative hoops to get a visa for Russia in the
first place, so maybe it evens out.
--
Champ

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:07:56 -0000, "Mike M. Miskulin"
wrote:

Champ wrote in
:

Here's some photos, of variable quality. Maybe a write-up will
follow
if I get a spare hour or two:

www.champ.org.uk/boards/images/Russia%202005


wow..flying in russian heli's.. I've read their
military stuff can take a lot of abuse but have
to wonder about maintenance of stuff.. though I
suppose the pilot has a vested interest to make
sure its done

The did helis looked a little old and worn, but no worse than a well
looked after used car, if you see what I mean., And they were *very*
strong - on one lift at the end of the day, we had 33 people in the
back, plus 3 crew. There was easily room in the hold for a car.
--
Champ

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 16:45:02 GMT, "og" allegedly
wrote:

Since 2001 there have been no serious airline security breaches in the
USA and also no terrorist events, thank god. How's Russia doing?

Well, that's an interesting point. The 2 flights that were taken down
last year were internal flights out of Moscow. How would fingerprinting
foreign nationals have helped in that regard? The Chechyan(?)
terrorists are already in the country.

Also, you claim there have been "no terrorist events". How do you
quantify that? What about the numerous increases in the US threat level
that have occurred? Whilst the threat level itself is meaningless
(there's no criteria on what happens when the level is increased or
decreased, unlike with DefCon), is the raising of the level an "event"?

How about the numerous flights that were cancelled from London to
Washington & New York last year, because of fears of another air strike?
Isn't that an "event" - a disruption to the normal way of life?

Last year in Jackson Hole, I met a couple that were now afraid to leave
the country because "it's not safe outside the US". Clearly that's not
true, but has the damage already been done to them and no doubt many
more like them?

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow -
Securing your e-mail

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://rssFAQ.org/