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possible to drown in snow?



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 10th 06, 08:22 PM
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Jeff Davis wrote:
Nobody inhales water when they suffocate in snow.
They soffocate because the ice crystals that form around their nose and
mouth fuse into an air tight barrier. The cavity is depleted of oxygen
and they die.

So if instead of having a "death mask" form, they have snow packed in
their throat shutting off their lungs it doesn't count as suffocating?

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  #22  
Old March 11th 06, 01:08 AM
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In article ,
Walt wrote:

Or brain damage if it is corrected but a little too late. Which may
explain some of the posts in this thread, IYKWIM.


This is crossposted to rec.skiing.snowboard- That speaks for itself.
--
According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker."

  #23  
Old March 11th 06, 01:18 AM
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In article .com,
TexasSkiNut wrote:
For those of us predisposed to these occurences, even a small particle
hitting just the wrong spot can trigger one. I had a tortilla chip
cause one once, as did some red pepper on a sandwich bun. Not fun at
all. I even have had one trigerred once by chomping on some ice. So,
to answer the OP's question, YES, it is possible to "drown" in snow,
but it is much more likely that you'd suffocate.


Some kid took a header off the traverse below the Casper Resraunt the other
day. According to the JH Ski Patrol, the kid had a big wad of chew in his
mouth. It lodged in his airway. His buddys got right to him and called
the Patrol. Unfortunately they weren't trained and neglected to clear
his airway. He was pretty much dead meat by the time the Patrol got to
him, but they revived him. He had severe brain damage from suffocation
and died in a hospital shortly afterward.

So I can see asphyxiation and suffocation, but by your very denotation
of dry drowning, one must first inhale water. Without the inhalation of
water, there is no drowning. Good research.
--
According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker."

  #24  
Old March 11th 06, 01:29 AM
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In article .com,
TexasSkiNut wrote:
Jeff Davis wrote:
Nobody inhales water when they suffocate in snow.


So if instead of having a "death mask" form, they have snow packed in
their throat shutting off their lungs it doesn't count as suffocating?


Of course that's denotative suffocation. The triple point of water is
O degrees Celsius. Water exists as liquid, solid, and vapor at that
temperature, eh? Drowning denotes inhalation of liquid water, does it
not? There is hardly enough H2O in that amount of snow to qualify as
drowning. It is rightly denotatively suffocation.

So you're going to argue that Water is a liquid, a solid, or a vapor?
Water and Ice are synonymmous? Not to mention Gas? Go ahead and
stretch it til it fits, albiet, stretched that tight the rationalization
will quickly disintegrate under cursory examination.
--
According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker."

  #25  
Old March 11th 06, 02:25 AM
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"Jeff Davis" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
TexasSkiNut wrote:
Jeff Davis wrote:
Nobody inhales water when they suffocate in snow.


So if instead of having a "death mask" form, they have snow packed in
their throat shutting off their lungs it doesn't count as suffocating?


Of course that's denotative suffocation. The triple point of water is
O degrees Celsius. Water exists as liquid, solid, and vapor at that
temperature, eh?


Actually, 0.01°C, but you would have to be skiing at a pretty high altitude,
since the triple-point pressure is 0.006 atmospheres.

Drowning denotes inhalation of liquid water, does it
not? There is hardly enough H2O in that amount of snow to qualify as
drowning. It is rightly denotatively suffocation.

So you're going to argue that Water is a liquid, a solid, or a vapor?
Water and Ice are synonymmous? Not to mention Gas? Go ahead and
stretch it til it fits, albiet, stretched that tight the rationalization
will quickly disintegrate under cursory examination.
--
According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted

trouble-maker."



  #26  
Old March 11th 06, 02:59 AM
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Jeff Davis wrote:
TexasSkiNut wrote:
For those of us predisposed to these occurences, even a small particle
hitting just the wrong spot can trigger one. I had a tortilla chip
cause one once, as did some red pepper on a sandwich bun. Not fun at
all. I even have had one trigerred once by chomping on some ice. So,
to answer the OP's question, YES, it is possible to "drown" in snow,
but it is much more likely that you'd suffocate.

[snip]
So I can see asphyxiation and suffocation, but by your very denotation
of dry drowning, one must first inhale water. Without the inhalation of
water, there is no drowning. Good research.


As Bill Clinton might say, define inhale. If you mean that water (or
whatever substance acts as the trigger) must get past the larynx and
into the windpipe, then I can assure you from my personal experience
that laryngospasms can be triggered before that happens. And by my
previous denotation (i.e. tortilla chips & red pepper), water does not
have to be involved for a laryngospasm to occur. The ice example was
merely to demonstrate that the H2O did not need to be in liquid form to
trigger a laryngospasm.

My research was out of necessity, as I had been having laryngospasms
for about 26 years without any doctor ever using the term laryngospasm.
They would all nod as I explained what was happening but none offered
any useful information. Worst of all was the idiot allergist that
misdiagnosed it as severe asthma when I was a teen and had my first
attack. About 3 years ago, after two pretty severe attacks in the
middle of the night as a byproduct of allergies (sinus drainage has
caused probably 90% of my episodes) I got busy with Google and found
out what it was called. Unfortunately I did not find any treatment for
the condition nor useful suggestions for alleviating the attacks. Best
I found was "try to avoid situations which might cause a laryngospasm".
ObSki: skiing with tobacco or other stuff in my mouth would be a bad
idea. Heck, I have to be careful when squirting water into my mouth
from my bottle when biking or skiing. I've triggered an attack or two
while biking.

  #27  
Old March 11th 06, 03:17 AM
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On 2006-03-10 09:47:32 -0700, "JQ" said:

I did something similar to this at Meadows on Mt. Hood. I was skiing
with two friends and didn't see them turn and I followed two boarders.
I stopped and heard my friends call to me, there was about 50 yards
between me and them. So I headed towards them in un tracked snow not
knowing it was so deep. As I got about 20 yards into this open area I
realized that my poles wasn't hitting ground or any thing and I fell.
The snow was about 5' deep I began to wonder how I was going to get out
of this situation. My skis up on top of the snow and me deep down in
the snow. I used me pole to get one of my skis off so I was able to
stand on one leg with other still on top of the snow. I was really
beginning to worry that I would have to dig my way to them. I
struggled there for about 15 minutes trying to get back on top of the
snow I did finally make it back up using my poles down in the snow.
Lucky for me I had a lot of flexibility, I fell back down maybe three
or four times trying to get the one ski back on. when I go it back on
and was standing I just slide the skis across the snow almost like a
cross country skier. I was exhausted when I finally got to my friends
and they laughed at me for being so stupid. I normally ski in the east
and we never get that much snow that you would sink so deep so that
situation was new to me.

Later that same day fog set so thick you couldn't see a thing and the
goggles I was wearing that made it even worse. At the top of one run I
couldn't see thing so I went to stop and fell. I had vertigo and
didn't know up from down, whether I was moving or not. I began to
panic knowing there was a 10' drop into some rocks not being able to
see and thinking I was still sliding. I am kicking and flopping around
like a fish out of water in all that movement my goggle got knocked off
and I then noticed I wasn't moving at all. Again my friends had a real
good laugh wondering what the hell I was doing. When I told them what
had happened they were a little more understanding but still thought it
was very funny watching me bouncing around. We went down to the lodge
to buy some clear goggles and I threw out those other goggles, I wasn't
going to go through that again.


JQ illustrates clearly with this story why you should stay our of deep
powder. That, and this:

http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5829.html

Be safe! Avoid the powder! You could drown!

Mike... 8J

--
See my ski photography at http://Powderday.us
Carpe powder-diem

  #28  
Old March 11th 06, 05:14 AM
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Let Mikey Ski It! wrote:
why you should stay our of deep
powder. That, and this:

http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5829.html

Be safe! Avoid the powder! You could drown!


I think they're taking a leak on that tree ...
  #30  
Old March 11th 06, 04:28 PM
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TexasSkiNut wrote:

Jeff Davis wrote:

TexasSkiNut wrote:

For those of us predisposed to these occurences, even a small particle
hitting just the wrong spot can trigger one. I had a tortilla chip
cause one once, as did some red pepper on a sandwich bun. Not fun at
all. I even have had one trigerred once by chomping on some ice. So,
to answer the OP's question, YES, it is possible to "drown" in snow,
but it is much more likely that you'd suffocate.


[snip]
So I can see asphyxiation and suffocation, but by your very denotation
of dry drowning, one must first inhale water. Without the inhalation of
water, there is no drowning. Good research.



As Bill Clinton might say, define inhale. If you mean that water (or
whatever substance acts as the trigger) must get past the larynx and
into the windpipe, then I can assure you from my personal experience
that laryngospasms can be triggered before that happens.


I'm wondering if one or more people in this convo are confusing dry
drowning, which is caused by laryngospasm and in which no liquid enters
the lungs, with secondary drowning AKA parking lot drowning. See
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~oulsc/theory/drown.html for more info on these
definitions. They make the point, BTW, that laryngospasm can be
triggered by cold water immersion -- again, not necessarily any water in
the lungs.

My research was out of necessity, as I had been having laryngospasms
for about 26 years without any doctor ever using the term laryngospasm.


I had it exactly once, when I got hit in the face with a blast of water
while kayaking. My mouth was open, and I guess it hit just right,
because the ol' spasm happened. Fortunately, I already knew about the
phenomenon. I just kept paddling and telling myself, "Take it easy,
you've got a lungful of air, just wait it out," and it relaxed in plenty
of time. It would have been super-scary had I not recognized it, though.


 




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