Stiffness of Newbie Boot

Ah yes, that's what I mean too... that you need to be able to "flex"
your ankles and if the boots is *way* too stiff for you, you won't be
able to flex it - that being said I don't think softboots in general
can be that stiff for most people. For my personal experience, I am
riding the AF600 alpine boots (compared to my old 224s) and I think
they are a little too stiff for me as I have a little bit of trouble
flexing my ankles on steeper terrain (I just got a pair of 324s that I
want to compare).


I tried the Head Stratos LTDs, and those were too stioff for me, I couldn't
move my ankles and this prevented me from being able to angulate the knees
and hiops without losing my balance.

Part of the problem was that my lower legs and ankles are bony and skinny,
and getting the boot anywhere near snug meant that the buckles were right
against each other, which made the boots behave as it they had no flex at
all.

My wife rides the women's version of the Malamute from a few years agao -
can't recall the name - and she has no problem flexing them, so I'd agree
that it's probably not possible to have soft boots get "way too stiff".

Yes, strong and flexible ankles aren't mutually exclusive - I'm just
saying I figure strength is more important than "wide range of motion"
especially from my personal experience as I have the latter more than
the former.

My left (front, I'm regular) ankle has lost some range of motion due to a
sprain 11 months ago, and it doesn't impact my riding in the least. But I
was awful when I started riding during rehab, until it was back to full
strength! (Actually, light riding and T-boarding were two of the things
that *brought* it back to full strength, in addition to weights and a wobble
board)

Neil Gendzwill wrote:
lonerider wrote:
that being said I don't think softboots in general
can be that stiff for most people.

Yeah, see I just don't know because I haven't ridden any of the
modern
stuff. I keep thinking I should try some new softies, but I have all

this money tied up in hardboot gear, and I keep getting reports from
people that for all the improvements they still have the weaknesses
that
caused me to switch. That being, strap pain and insufficient support

for riding hard at speed.

Also, I'm in love with the Intec step-in system and I don't think I
could ever give it up.

Neil

You can definitely still get strap pain if the strap bindings are of
poor quality, overtightening, or even if they just don't match your
boot shape well. However, those are fit issues... which happen with
alpine boots as well.

A step-in system like Clicker (which I grew up using) avoids the strap
fit issues and has the toe/heel step-in style like the Intecs. I
switched to straps three years ago because the boots they were making
for Clicker step-ins weren't keeping up with the rest of the industry
in terms of quality.

You can definitely ride a bit harder at high speeds with alpine boots,
but I think there is a fair amount of overlap to the point that for
most people it is more of a personal preference.

You can definitely still get strap pain if the strap bindings are of
poor quality, overtightening, or even if they just don't match your
boot shape well. However, those are fit issues... which happen with
alpine boots as well.

Agreed.

A step-in system like Clicker (which I grew up using) avoids the strap
fit issues and has the toe/heel step-in style like the Intecs. I
switched to straps three years ago because the boots they were making
for Clicker step-ins weren't keeping up with the rest of the industry
in terms of quality.

I pretty much did the same, and for the same reasons.

I have been using the Salomon soft bindings exclusively for the past few
years 'cause they are the only ones that don't kill my feet.

You can definitely ride a bit harder at high speeds with alpine boots,
but I think there is a fair amount of overlap to the point that for
most people it is more of a personal preference.

There is definitely overlap, but I can't imagine riding anywhere as close to
as hard on softies as I do on say my Coiler PR 188 in hard boots. Part of
that is the board, it is built for that kind of riding... but I can't
imagine riding a big old Rad-Air tanker 192 in softies like that either.
(In plates - sure!). My point is, the speeds and "hardness of riding" that
I hit on that Coiler is way beyond what I would do in softies.

Yeah, I think there's a lotta misconceptions about softboots in the
hardboot crowd, particularly the bomber folks. For example, there's an
idea there that it's impossible to carve in duck stance... well, Sean
et all had my gf carving from duck stance in softies just fine in a
couple hours, and she'd never attempted any kind of carved turn. From a
duck stance there's very little you can do with knee stearing to
leverage the edge sideways through the boot cuff, almost all the edge
angle has to come from the ankles with just hinging at the knees for
toeside, and sucking your hips towards the board on heelside.

And likewise, I think a lot of hardbooters miss out on the ankle flex.
Part of it depends on stance angle. Sean et all teach a technique
that's focused on more mellow stance angles in the 50 degree area, and
a body stance where your hips and shoulders stay mostly aligned with
the bindings. In this situation, building angulation from ankles is
pretty important, since it lets you keep your body more centered so you
have more room to balance.

But, if you're rockin' the 66+ degree angle setup, your ability to get
edge angle out of ankle flex is much more limited, so you have to use
more knee steering and just face the nose and hinge at the hips in true
bomber style.

So there's a sort of continum depending on stance angle from entirely
knee steered on something like a skwall, to entirely ankle flexed on a
perpendicular or duck softboot stance. Myself I'm really happy with the
mellow hardboot stance setup, which lets you blend a bit of both.

Mike, Lone... we really should get some video of Sean, MH or Marty
demonstrating this stuff, so that when we repeat it to folks we don't
sound like crackheads. Ankle flex in hardboots definately matters.

wrote:

And likewise, I think a lot of hardbooters miss out on the ankle flex.
Part of it depends on stance angle. Sean et all teach a technique
that's focused on more mellow stance angles in the 50 degree area, and
a body stance where your hips and shoulders stay mostly aligned with
the bindings. In this situation, building angulation from ankles is
pretty important, since it lets you keep your body more centered so you
have more room to balance.

Got to get me to one of those clinics, too bad they're so damned
expensive. I ride a 45 degree stance. One of these days I've got to
get some decent video of myself and throw it up for a critique. I'm
never around anyone who does anything close to what I do.

But, if you're rockin' the 66+ degree angle setup, your ability to get
edge angle out of ankle flex is much more limited, so you have to use
more knee steering and just face the nose and hinge at the hips in true
bomber style.

I've never tried such steep angles, but I would think it's a bit
limiting for the terrain I like to ride. I think a lot of the guys on
Bomber never get off the groom.

Neil

But, if you're rockin' the 66+ degree angle setup, your ability to get
edge angle out of ankle flex is much more limited, so you have to use
more knee steering and just face the nose and hinge at the hips in true
bomber style.

I've never tried such steep angles, but I would think it's a bit limiting
for the terrain I like to ride. I think a lot of the guys on Bomber never
get off the groom.


I've tried it. It was fun at the time but that was on a hero groomer day,
I am not likely to do it again soon.

FWIW, I use the "SnowPeformance camp" techniques on stances ranging from
about 46/44 up to about 60/58. I could not ride anything less than 50 in
back before that camp, and used to have to splaythe feet at exactly 5
degrees or it hurt. Widening the stance, reducing the splay, using the
boots in powder mode, flexing the ankles... getting rid of cant and using
pure lift... and surely some other things I am forgetting... have made me a
lot more versatile in hard boots. That's part of the reason I have 17 days
on hard, 0 in soft this year. (17 days for me in the middle of Feb is
pathetic - REALLY bad snow season at the Hood)

I plan to do my next day in softies unless it's ice or hero groom. I want
to see how my recent changes affect my softie riding!

Mike T

Got to get me to one of those clinics, too bad they're so damned
expensive. I ride a 45 degree stance. One of these days I've got to

get some decent video of myself and throw it up for a critique. I'm
never around anyone who does anything close to what I do.

Yeah. Really I probibly shouldn't have spent for it, but whatever. You
have to indulge yourself sometimes. I'm definatley still early in the
learning as far as carving goes, but they gave me all the individual
pieces for a very solid technique. I just need to get some more time on
the hill to get them locked in and consistant.

http://www.alpinecarving.com/sunpeaks/style.html

has some info, from the perspective of someone who is *very* good at
what you might call the 'bomber' style of high angles, compact body,
facing the nose and hinging sideways at the hips. He was seriously good
at that stytle, putting both forearms on the groom with easy every
turn.

A couple of the drills they reccomend:
- ride with boots in walk mode... that'll force you to be active with
the ankles
- if you're having trouble with to much upper body rotation, grab your
hip pockets with your hands as you board
- if you're solid on not over-rotating or counter rotating with the
upper body, do butler turns: leading arm on the stomach, trailing arm
tucked into the small of your back. Your arms are 25% of your mass, so
when you can't use them, it forces you to use your abs and back to
balance your upper half over your hips properly

I was in the newbie group, so I'm sure Mike can relate some other
drills that might be worthwhile. In particular I'd like to know any
drill they might have on getting edge transitions done quicker, since
that's the real weakness I've got at the moment.

I think their style is great for all terrain riding, because it really
focuses on just being in a centered position with a lot of freedom of
motion to suck up bumps or adapt your turns... not like some of the
carving advice which locks you into a very rigid shape.

I've never tried such steep angles, but I would think it's a bit
limiting for the terrain I like to ride. I think a lot of the guys
on
Bomber never get off the groom.

Indeed. I don't understand that either, life is so good off the groom
on a fresh snow day

A couple of the drills they reccomend:

-snip -

I was in the newbie group, so I'm sure Mike can relate some other
drills that might be worthwhile. In particular I'd like to know any
drill they might have on getting edge transitions done quicker, since
that's the real weakness I've got at the moment.

I don't remember a specific drill for faster edge changes, but rather some
general advice:

"Lower your riding height".

Essentially, doing "cross-through" turns.

www.bomberonline.com/articles/cross_over.cfm

Another way they said it was riding "bottom up" rather than "top down".

=Mike T