Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

"WeatherCam" wrote in message
...
Arvin

Oh a liitle apology is due - ok sorry - but he's still hijacked the thread
to promote for what ever reason he see's fit to rave on about Donek - that
WAS NOT the question of the original post....if everyone did this the
whole
ethos of newsgroups would die under avlanches of irelevant text - it
happens
a lot over in windsurfing NG's and it's a real pain - someone asks a
sensiible question about two brands - maybe because that's all that's
available in his area, and then they get bombarded with loads of other
recomendations......plus over here in Europe it's still can be quite a
hassle ordering goods from the US as you'll never be quite sure as to how
you'll be stung for import taxes - and there's no way Donek can answer
that
because they are not in control of that!!!

I don't want to argue or anything, but Donek do have info on their site
about ordering into the EU. They give upfront prices that include the import
tax, AFAIK.

"Barney" wrote in message
...

"WeatherCam" wrote in message
...
Arvin

Oh a liitle apology is due - ok sorry - but he's still hijacked the
thread
to promote for what ever reason he see's fit to rave on about Donek -
that
WAS NOT the question of the original post....if everyone did this the
whole
ethos of newsgroups would die under avlanches of irelevant text - it
happens
a lot over in windsurfing NG's and it's a real pain - someone asks a
sensiible question about two brands - maybe because that's all that's
available in his area, and then they get bombarded with loads of other
recomendations......plus over here in Europe it's still can be quite a
hassle ordering goods from the US as you'll never be quite sure as to
how
you'll be stung for import taxes - and there's no way Donek can answer
that
because they are not in control of that!!!

I don't want to argue or anything, but Donek do have info on their site
about ordering into the EU. They give upfront prices that include the
import
tax, AFAIK.


Trouble is there' s import tax and then there's VAT at17.5% ( I think) and
it's very much a lottery as to whether you get stung for this or not,
depending of customs decide to open package up and investigate - it's quite
a gamble.......then if there's a ding in the board from shipping, you've got
the hassle of sending it back and the costs........pre xmas I bought some
kit from France and that turned into a bloody nightmare with pacakges being
split up and not delivered - luckily I was going to France near where the
shop was so I made a detour and picked the kit up from them whic had been
returned to the shop by the French Postal service.

Also a mate of mine bought some K2 Clicker Boots from the US and he had to
pay shed loads for that!! To guaraantee delivery and the like...

Buying small items fine - but larger ones.........

Regards
WC

I also have a Naturals, and have ridden the Cascade (rental), Shogun
(friends), and Incline (another friend). I found the Incline and
Shogun to both be stiffer than the Naturals, and the Cascade to be the
softest of all.

Oh, one thing: I have the Nitro Naturals, but I find it too stiff, the
nose tends to dig into slushy snow/"wet powder snow". Is the Shogun
just a slightly modified Naturals?

"WeatherCam" wrote in message ...
Arvin

Oh a liitle apology is due - ok sorry - but he's still hijacked the thread
to promote for what ever reason he see's fit to rave on about Donek - that
WAS NOT the question of the original post....if everyone did this the whole
ethos of newsgroups would die under avlanches of irelevant text - it happens
a lot over in windsurfing NG's and it's a real pain - someone asks a
sensiible question about two brands - maybe because that's all that's
available in his area, and then they get bombarded with loads of other
recomendations......plus over here in Europe it's still can be quite a
hassle ordering goods from the US as you'll never be quite sure as to how
you'll be stung for import taxes - and there's no way Donek can answer that
because they are not in control of that!!!

So aplogies, but I hope you see the point I'm making..

Regards
WC

True, I have to admit Mike does get a little carried away with his
love of Donek snowboards and he did kind of forcefully plug Donek into
the conversation. So I definitely see your point. So many Mike you
could tone it down a little (got that Mike?)

On the flipside:

1. Donek snowboards are actually extremely good (at least from my
limited experience with them).

2. Donek snowboards are very affordable. Arne (original poster) said
that boards in Norway average for 900 USD (6050 Kroners 700 EURO, 468
Pounds). A Donek snowboards sell for ~$430 EURO (including shipping,
taxes). Now you said that there is no way Donek can handle import
taxes, now I'm not an expert, but their website implies that they have
handled it.

=============
European Union Direct Pricing
Hey, it's a small world after all – especially if you're living in the
EU and want to buy one of our boards. We've ironed out the details in
regard to shipping and import duties and taxes and the rest of the
nonsense that often accompanies international purchases. Instead of
hassles, we can offer the following special all-inclusive
(board+shipping+taxes) pricing to our EU customers.

Incline: €420
Wide: €425
Sasquatch: €430
=============

I think this was the key thing that Mike was trying to point out. That
you could get a really good board at a very good price (equivalent to
50% regular boards in Norway) without being limited to leftovers from
last season that are on clearance and without handling shipping and
custom taxes. I think that was a decently strong argument.

Now flipping over again... as I said before... even though this looks
like a great deal. I'm not sure I would totally recommend it because
as you said, it "could" be a potential hassle dealing with a board
overseas. I mean personally I have be hesistant to order a board from
Europe - for instance I've been intrigued by the Swoard
(http://www.extremecarving.com/swoard/board.html). So I would never
blindly web order a board from a company I've barely heard about. For
me, it took me about 5-6 personal recommendations from Donek owners, a
few I met in person - to start considering it... and then Colorado is
only a few states away (still in the same country) so I figured it
wouldn't be too bad.

So yea, I think both sides of this debate have good points.
--Arvin

(Arne Aas) wrote in message . com...
I have a LibTech Emmagator board. While I was very pleased with this
board when I bought it about 3 years ago, I am now not that satisfied.
It performs well in normal conditions, but not really when it is
hard/icy or otherwise more challenging. I am therefore considering
buying another board, but I want to make sure that I am getting
something better.

I enjoy off-piste riding the most, going down forest runs, wide open
mountain sides, or narrow couloirs. I encounter all kinds of
conditions, powder, slush, windblown hardpack, ice, crusty snow, and
so on. I basically need a board that rides well in all kinds of
conditions and terrain. I have ridden for ten years and consider
myself a fairly advanced boarder with a somewhat aggressive riding
style.

The local stores are having a sale, and I have found two promising
candidates
Burton Cascade
Nitro Shogun

(snowboards are quite expensive in Norway, the normal price for these
would be almost USD900, so getting them for half price is rather
important...)


Oh, one thing: I have the Nitro Naturals, but I find it too stiff, the
nose tends to dig into slushy snow/"wet powder snow". Is the Shogun
just a slightly modified Naturals?

BTW, check out board reviews below

http://www.boardreviews.com/reviews/...tro_frames.htm

Seems like the Shogun is similar to the Natural in terms of stiffness
(both are describe as very stiff).

www.outdoorreviews.com can be good, but I didn't find any Nitro review
there.

Good luck,
--Arvin

True, I have to admit Mike does get a little carried away with his
love of Donek snowboards and he did kind of forcefully plug Donek into
the conversation. So I definitely see your point. So many Mike you
could tone it down a little (got that Mike?)

OK, I admit it, I get carried away. Perhaps I can give y'all some
insight into why.

During the 1999-2000 season, I had hit a plateau with my riding that I
couldn't seem to break through. You see, I'm not the most atheltically
gifted fellow out there, I don't have great balance, and I had come to a
point where lessons weren't helping, because the instructors I had
access to were not able to pick out what was wrong, and neither was by
riding companion, my wife Bonnie.

After reading a lot of posts on this newsgroup it occurred to me that I
might have made some poor, ininformed equipment choices. So I started
demoing, demoing, and demoing. (I had a Burston Custom at the time)

To my delight, I found that my confidence and ability jumped when I
demoed a few Salomon boards. They held an edge on groomed snow, ice,
and choppy snow like nothing else I tried. The problem was, I didn't
like the way they felt under my feet. The flex didn't seem right -
they all flexed to a certain point and then just stopped. While they
held an edge really well, riding felt mechanical and synthetic and not
so enjoyable. So I wasn't so delighted after all.

About that time a number of people on this newsgroup were buying Doneks,
and I emailed a few of them privately... They were as enthusiastic as I
am today about their performance. The price was like $280 USD in those
days, so I ordered one.

It held an edge like the Salomon but was still fun to ride, it didn't
have that "synthetic" feel of the Salomon. By my second day on the
board I was carving turns where I used to skid, and rescusing landings
that I used to fall on. If I got off balance a bit, it stayed its
course, but it still felt like part of me and not a piece of metal.

Until this season, I've never missed demo day at my local hill, and have
always tried a high end Salomons, Burtons, etc. But nothing has felt
as good as the Donek Wide. It seems to strike a balance for me that no
other board ever has. That's why I keep raving about it.

When I have time, I think I'm going to put up a web page or three about
my quiver. I'll tell my story there and just link to it in my sig, and
if I think it might apply to a certain post, I'll mention the link
specifically. That way all you other regulars here don't have to hear
me say the "D-word" so often, but casual visitors who come, ask a
quetsion, and leave can have access to my opinions

I'll probably have a section about Catek Olympic alpine bindings and
Thermoflex liners as well, because they have had similar
barrier-shattering impacts on my hard boot riding as the Donek board had
on my soft boot riding. You guys don't hear me say so much about them,
this newsgroup is soft-boot intensive!

But please read on...

I think this was the key thing that Mike was trying to point out. That
you could get a really good board at a very good price (equivalent to
50% regular boards in Norway) without being limited to leftovers from
last season that are on clearance and without handling shipping and
custom taxes. I think that was a decently strong argument.

Arvin, you're absolutely correct. I should have spelled it out more.
Ah, the dangers of newsgroup posting while at work... I really do have
the best of intentions to try to help someone else out, but it doesn't
always work out that way


-Mike T

Multiple replies in a single post

"WeatherCam" wrote in message news:btue13$j5i$1
"Barney" wrote in message
I don't want to argue or anything, but Donek do have info on their site
about ordering into the EU. They give upfront prices that include the
import
tax, AFAIK.


Trouble is there' s import tax and then there's VAT at17.5% ( I think) and
it's very much a lottery as to whether you get stung for this or not,
depending of customs decide to open package up and investigate - it's quite
a gamble.......then if there's a ding in the board from shipping, you've got
the hassle of sending it back and the costs........pre xmas I bought some
kit from France and that turned into a bloody nightmare with pacakges being
split up and not delivered - luckily I was going to France near where the
shop was so I made a detour and picked the kit up from them whic had been
returned to the shop by the French Postal service.

Also a mate of mine bought some K2 Clicker Boots from the US and he had to
pay shed loads for that!! To guaraantee delivery and the like...

Buying small items fine - but larger ones.........

Regards
WC

Yea, I don't about buying overseas (in either direction). VAT is UK
only? Does Norway have a similar thing? I can definitely see the
potential for problems. For me I would like to have seen some other
people do it successfully (I mean I was already was a little
apprehensive about buying the Donek from within the US).

BTW, Sean Martin (who posts here occasionally) is actually the heart
and soul of Donek, and notable he is very careful not to blatantly
plug his own boards.

(Calf Cramp) wrote in message . com...
I also have a Naturals, and have ridden the Cascade (rental), Shogun
(friends), and Incline (another friend). I found the Incline and
Shogun to both be stiffer than the Naturals, and the Cascade to be the
softest of all.

Oh, one thing: I have the Nitro Naturals, but I find it too stiff, the
nose tends to dig into slushy snow/"wet powder snow". Is the Shogun
just a slightly modified Naturals?

So there you have it (always good to have someon whose ridden both
boards), sounds like the Incline and Shogun might not be the thing for
you since both are extremely stiff. I actually noticed some issues in
my Donek Incline in slush (will handle that in another post).

--Arvin

Oh, one thing: I have the Nitro Naturals, but I find it too stiff,
the
nose tends to dig into slushy snow/"wet powder snow". Is the
Shogun
just a slightly modified Naturals?

That *could* be more of a technique issue. If you try to carve slush or
"wet powder" the same way you carve groomers, you're going to dig in and
go over the handlebars. I find a stiffer board better in these
conditions, it doesn't flap around as much when the snow is uneven. Of
course, one must not put so much power into initiating turns.

So there you have it (always good to have someon whose ridden both
boards), sounds like the Incline and Shogun might not be the thing for
you since both are extremely stiff. I actually noticed some issues in
my Donek Incline in slush (will handle that in another post).

Here's a thread from a year ago, mostly concerned with board width... I
mention my experiences with slush in it, though.

"WeatherCam" wrote in message ...
Sorry I must have confused you....the boots I use are in fact Soft
Snowboarding boots made my Deeluxe to fit the front Dynafit bindings on the
Skis. Deeluxe produced the boots with a harder sole and inserted the lugs
for the bindings in the toe piece of the boots. So I just use the Flow
bindings as normal, take out the skiis and clip the toes of the boots into
the Dynafit bindings on the skis, lock them and then off I go!

Interesting setup! Do you then only need the front part of the Dynafit
bindings (since you never need to lock down the heels)? Can that be
bought separately?

ideal scenario would be
soft ski apline boots that are also good for freeriding on a board, that
then use a stepin hard boot binding - that would then work with Alpine
touring bindings on the skis.....

That's what I'm thinking too. I like the Clicker setup I have, but the
boots soak water, making for cold feet and HEAVY boots by the end of
the day. Also, plastic boots are much better for kicking tracks in
hard conditions, e.g. when walking by foot up steep, semi-icy
couloirs, and the Clicker boots seem to wear quickly in such
conditions.

BTW, K2 started making their Approach Skis with strap bindings,
allowing using any boots, not just clicker boots. But it seems you
already have skis.

Regards,
Arne

Sorry I must have confused you....the boots I use are in fact Soft
Snowboarding boots made my Deeluxe to fit the front Dynafit bindings on
the
Skis. Deeluxe produced the boots with a harder sole and inserted the
lugs
for the bindings in the toe piece of the boots. So I just use the Flow
bindings as normal, take out the skiis and clip the toes of the boots
into
the Dynafit bindings on the skis, lock them and then off I go!

Interesting setup! Do you then only need the front part of the Dynafit
bindings (since you never need to lock down the heels)? Can that be
bought separately?

Skis came with only the front part of the Dynafit binding........

ideal scenario would be
soft ski apline boots that are also good for freeriding on a board, that
then use a stepin hard boot binding - that would then work with Alpine
touring bindings on the skis.....

Yes, hard shell plastic boots make sense - trouble is I now have my setup,
but I'm on the lookout for a second hand pair of dynafit Moutain toruing
boots to try with hard plates.....

That's what I'm thinking too. I like the Clicker setup I have, but the
boots soak water, making for cold feet and HEAVY boots by the end of
the day. Also, plastic boots are much better for kicking tracks in
hard conditions, e.g. when walking by foot up steep, semi-icy
couloirs, and the Clicker boots seem to wear quickly in such
conditions.

BTW, K2 started making their Approach Skis with strap bindings,
allowing using any boots, not just clicker boots. But it seems you
already have skis.

One qusetion Arne - we've just had more details through of our Narvik
trip.....from our guide Per As. What tours do you do in and around Narvik -
is there GPS mapping software for that area? Any information I'd be really
interested in - plus we do have a spare place!!
I have talked to the tattooed skipper Kenneth and I have reserved a three
day boat cruise in the islands outside Tromso. Then I thought we´d make two
or three days from Narvik, one day in the resort (to rest the poore old legs
of Gav) and two day tours, all with sea front view.... Well, there will
always be the option of one day heli-skiing in Riksgransen (swedish side of
the border).

We need to set the dates. I suggest that you arrive in Tromso saturday
the24th of april. Let me know if that is possible. There is some good cheap
tickets from Oslo with a company called www.NorwegianAir.no , I just looked
and there is a return ticket for about 100Euros. Gavin said something about
cheap tickets London-Oslo. So, you might get away quit cheap with the air
fares.

The prize for the boat, 3 days all meals included, + guiding 5 days for a
group of 5 will be 1050 Euros/person. So, there will be a few options in
Narvik in accomodation, Youthhostel, maybe a hut, or hotel. There will be a
buss ticket from Tromso-Narvik retour (about 60E), and some local transfers
in Narvik. Well, there are as I said a few options so it is hard to
calculate an exact prize. But roughly, 1050E/pers+three nights accomodation
and transfers.

The boat is obviously the big cost, but never the less an amaizing
experiance that no one will forget. There is room for 6+ guide on the boat,
so if we can find one more guy for an unforgettable adventure the prize will
go down a bit. Have a word with the boys and let me know what you think.


Regards,
Arne