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Info required on guiding in France



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 22nd 04, 06:36 PM
Roy
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Default Info required on guiding in France

Hi - wife and I are looking to buy in Praz Sur Arly (near Megeve), after a
couple of visits there in summer and winter. Our masterplan is to eventually
(say in 5 yrs) run a B & B, with me offering a guiding service to the
punters. Right now I do not know the area too well, but hopefully I will
eventually .

Can anyone recommend a good English-speaking guide (we're going back in
March for 2 weeks to buy a property / ski) - and is our plan doomed to
failure? I.E. have the French got this all sewn up to prevent foreigners
from being registered snow-guides? Is insurance too big a hurdle (viz
qualifications)?

We're gonna move to France come-what-may (we're both ski fanatics) - it's
just that we want to find niches that match our abilities (Mrs is a
qualified midwife / general nurse, so she has a good back-up trade if she
improves her French). I'll have 30 plus years in the RAF with no useable
trade behind me - but I'm a canny skier and fit. We recently met a Brit
ski-lift operator in Praz and he has the life-style I really want - out on
the mountains, and a free pass to ski one day a week; I would like to do
that but with a bit more flex........... and living in France. I see a
potential market for "white-haired" snow-guiding, hope some of you can fill
me with inspiration as I sit here planning my retirement.

Roy


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  #2  
Old January 23rd 04, 10:24 AM
Ace
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Default Info required on guiding in France

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:36:01 -0000, "Roy" wrote:

Hi - wife and I are looking to buy in Praz Sur Arly (near Megeve), after a
couple of visits there in summer and winter. Our masterplan is to eventually
(say in 5 yrs) run a B & B, with me offering a guiding service to the
punters. Right now I do not know the area too well, but hopefully I will
eventually .

Can anyone recommend a good English-speaking guide (we're going back in
March for 2 weeks to buy a property / ski) - and is our plan doomed to
failure? I.E. have the French got this all sewn up to prevent foreigners
from being registered snow-guides? Is insurance too big a hurdle (viz
qualifications)?


Difficult one, this. In some french resorts this type of thing is
toleraed, but it's rarely considered legal. Their problem seems to be
that they consider that professional (i.e. paid) guides must be
qualified instructors or guides, which in practice would mean a UIAGM
guide or BASI 1 level (unless working with a local ski school, when a
BASI2 may be allowed).

So in general, in France, you can't _offically_ offer this service,
but of course there's absolutely no reason why you can't ski with a
group of friends, who happen to be staying in your chalet.

As I say, some places may tolerate it, and in others it's a question
of greasing the palms of the local ski school so they don't object -
either of these would be somewhat risky, IMO.

An alternative, of course, is to suggest that your punters may like to
ski with a Ski Club rep, although there isn't one in P-s-A. Maybe if
you offered to house and feed one, get the resort's buy-in and ensure
you're punters are, or become, ski club members, it may be possible to
add this to our list of resorts. (As per my sig, I'm not speaking on
the club's behalf here, just musing on possibilities).

Another possibility would be to talk to the local mayor about the
legal position, and the ski school director(s) about their view, and
try and work out what would be allowed locally. Of course, once you've
put your cards on the table you'll be stuffed if they say no but you
want ot go ahead with it anyway...

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #3  
Old January 23rd 04, 12:32 PM
WeatherCam
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Default Info required on guiding in France


"Roy" wrote in message
...
Hi - wife and I are looking to buy in Praz Sur Arly (near Megeve), after

a
couple of visits there in summer and winter. Our masterplan is to

eventually
(say in 5 yrs) run a B & B, with me offering a guiding service to the
punters. Right now I do not know the area too well, but hopefully I will
eventually .

Can anyone recommend a good English-speaking guide (we're going back in
March for 2 weeks to buy a property / ski) - and is our plan doomed to
failure? I.E. have the French got this all sewn up to prevent foreigners
from being registered snow-guides? Is insurance too big a hurdle (viz
qualifications)?



Could be in for a bit of a shock here - depends exactly what type of guiding
you mean - either way the French did put quite a stop to all the so called
resort guides, though they still exist in one fashion or another - but you
can't go round advertising it!!

To be a real Mountain guide - you need shedloads of experience - see
http://www.bmg.org.uk/training.html which is the British view on things -
just imagine what the French would want from a Brit!!

Best of luck

Regards
WC


  #4  
Old January 23rd 04, 01:29 PM
Steve
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Default Info required on guiding in France

Find out what your position would be legally with regard to business
permits, tax and insurance.

As opposed to travel company "guides" (and SCGB reps) you are not planning a
short-term visit to the resort and are not covered by a company liability
insurance. Since you are planning to live in the resort not only is your
relationship with your neighbours of importance, but also your business
viability and legality. Travel companies and the SCGB get away with things
because they are seen to be bringing business to resorts (looking at it
cynically). You will not be bringing anything like that business and you
will be operating in competition to a number of locals.

I am not a ski guide, but I am a qualified mountain walking guide and if you
started up a business offering guided snowshoe walks (for example) in my
resort without the proper qualifications and paperwork, I would be on the
phone to the local chamber of commerce in a minute.

Not because I'm an unpleasant type of person who doesn't like to see other
people succeed, but because I had/have to pay for my business registration,
for liability insurance, for the original qualifications, and I have to pay
tax (which is the other side of the coin of the "anti-Euro-closed-shop"
messages that you will sometimes see on here).

Best wishes with making your dream work - it can be done but it needs
dedication and a lot of work (and more than some dreamers about a Euro
chalet or outdoors paradise are prepared to put in).
--
Steve Rout

http://www.skiseefeld.com/


  #5  
Old January 23rd 04, 02:00 PM
Ace
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Default Info required on guiding in France

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:29:06 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

Travel companies and the SCGB get away with things
because they are seen to be bringing business to resorts (looking at it
cynically).


Point of order - as unpaid amateurs Ski Club reps aren't "getting
away" with anything. While local ski schools could sometimes make life
difficult for us, should they so wish, there's nothing they could
legally do to stop us.

Of course, our presence in a resort is by invitation and we're
normally funded by them, so the goodwill and 'bringing punters in' is
still very important.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #6  
Old January 23rd 04, 04:15 PM
PG
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Default Info required on guiding in France


"Steve" wrote in message
y.telekom.at...
| Find out what your position would be legally with regard to business
| permits, tax and insurance.
|
| As opposed to travel company "guides" (and SCGB reps) you are not
planning a
| short-term visit to the resort and are not covered by a company
liability
| insurance. Since you are planning to live in the resort not only is
your
| relationship with your neighbours of importance, but also your
business
| viability and legality. Travel companies and the SCGB get away with
things
| because they are seen to be bringing business to resorts (looking at
it
| cynically). You will not be bringing anything like that business and
you
| will be operating in competition to a number of locals.
|
| I am not a ski guide, but I am a qualified mountain walking guide and
if you
| started up a business offering guided snowshoe walks (for example) in
my
| resort without the proper qualifications and paperwork, I would be on
the
| phone to the local chamber of commerce in a minute.
|
| Not because I'm an unpleasant type of person who doesn't like to see
other
| people succeed, but because I had/have to pay for my business
registration,
| for liability insurance, for the original qualifications, and I have
to pay
| tax (which is the other side of the coin of the
"anti-Euro-closed-shop"
| messages that you will sometimes see on here).
|
| Best wishes with making your dream work - it can be done but it needs
| dedication and a lot of work (and more than some dreamers about a Euro
| chalet or outdoors paradise are prepared to put in).
| --

Excellent advice throughout. For those who don't already know,
employers' national insurance contributions are much higher in France,
and anyone working on the black is a direct threat to bona fide
businesses. The French can get extremely miffed when Brits come over on
allegedly 'short-term' contracts, thus not liable to French taxation/NI,
and undercut the locals considerably. I've seen the gendarmeriie called
in several times in Provence when cowboy Brit builders, even a retired
expat architect, have been shopped.

And on Steve's last point, when considering a move to France....
especially if buying property for renovation - take the purchase price,
work out the maximum possible costs of renovation.... then multiply the
resultant figure by 1.5 - if you're lucky, you might get away with it
not costing more!

B&B? You'll be lucky to make ends meet on that alone. Running costs and
repairs, especially of an old property, will make an enormouse hole in
any income.

Throw away Peter Mayle's book and imagine all possible unwritten horror
stories - they're all true - along with the ones that haven't occurred
to you yet. Especially of underfunded, non-French-speaking Brits
dreaming of their gite business in some isolated spot in the south of
France!

Ok none of the above may apply to you, but during the 20 years I've
spent living in various parts of France and a few other places in
Europe, I've seen more than a few apparently organised, logical and
sensible Brits turn into gibbering fantasists when discussing their
'dream move', and some have come a major cropper.

Pete
www.skiclublesarcs.com


  #7  
Old January 23rd 04, 06:06 PM
Roy
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Default Info required on guiding in France

Thanks for all your advice, much appreciated.

Roy


  #8  
Old January 23rd 04, 06:46 PM
David Off
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Default Info required on guiding in France

PG wrote:
Excellent advice throughout. For those who don't already know,
employers' national insurance contributions are much higher in France,
and anyone working on the black is a direct threat to bona fide
businesses.


Lots of good advice. I can only echo PGs message. I am a self employed
person in France and you can't imagine the amount I pay in all sorts of
unheard of taxes and insurances. Makes Britain look like a tax haven.

The French fisc take a dim view of tax evasion and there is a reward if
you shop someone - 10% of what they recover I believe.

 




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