St. Patrick was NOT Irish

It's that time of year again, where I like to remind everybody that
St. Patrick was NOT Irish. His parents were Roman, he wasn't born in
Ireland, and he didn't grow up in Ireland.


PATRICK (5th century). The enduring legends of St. Patrick are that
he
used a shamrock to explain the Trinity and that he banished all snakes
from Ireland. The true story of Patrick, however, survives not in his
myths but in his work. Patrick was responsible for converting the
people
of Ireland to Christianity.
Patrick was born to a Romanized family in Britain probably in the
first
half of the 5th century. At the age of 16 he was taken to Ireland by
pirates and sold into slavery. The young boy was sustained by his
faith
during his six years working as a herdsman. When Patrick escaped and
returned to Britain, he had a vision of the Irish beseeching him to
return
to Ireland to spread his faith. Patrick recorded this call to his
vocation
in the 'Confessio', his spiritual autobiography and one of his two
short
writings that have survived.
After studying in continental monasteries, Patrick returned to
Ireland
as a missionary. Despite a constant threat to his life, Patrick
traveled
widely, baptizing, confirming, and preaching and building churches,
schools,
and monasteries. Patrick succeeded in converting almost the entire
population of the island. His 'Epistola' pleads the case of the
Christian
Irish at the hands of their British conquerors. Patrick's writings
have
come to be appreciated for their simplicity and humility. St. Patrick
is
the patron saint of Ireland. His feast day is celebrated on March 17.






My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
ultimate power in the universe."

Harry Weiner wrote:
It's that time of year again, where I like to remind everybody that
St. Patrick was NOT Irish. His parents were Roman, he wasn't born in
Ireland, and he didn't grow up in Ireland.


PATRICK (5th century). The enduring legends of St. Patrick are that
he
used a shamrock to explain the Trinity and that he banished all snakes
from Ireland. The true story of Patrick, however, survives not in his
myths but in his work. Patrick was responsible for converting the
people
of Ireland to Christianity.
Patrick was born to a Romanized family in Britain probably in the
first
half of the 5th century. At the age of 16 he was taken to Ireland by
pirates and sold into slavery. The young boy was sustained by his
faith
during his six years working as a herdsman. When Patrick escaped and
returned to Britain, he had a vision of the Irish beseeching him to
return
to Ireland to spread his faith. Patrick recorded this call to his
vocation
in the 'Confessio', his spiritual autobiography and one of his two
short
writings that have survived.
After studying in continental monasteries, Patrick returned to
Ireland
as a missionary. Despite a constant threat to his life, Patrick
traveled
widely, baptizing, confirming, and preaching and building churches,
schools,
and monasteries. Patrick succeeded in converting almost the entire
population of the island. His 'Epistola' pleads the case of the
Christian
Irish at the hands of their British conquerors. Patrick's writings

Where did you find this Horvie? It was pretty good up to
this point. Ireland was conquered by neither the British
no the Romans in the 5th century. In fact the Irish of
the time were doing nasty things to the British as were
the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The British didn't have a
"prayer".

Ireland pretty much maintained its independence up to the
Norman invasion of England (1066). Sometime thereafter, a
number of Norman/English nobility went to Ireland and set
up feudal fiefs on the Continental pattern, which Ireland
did not have prior to this. The Normans became "more Irish
than the Irish" and successfully fought off most English
incursions until Queen Elizabeth I (1600+/-). After that
point Ireland was mostly governed by England.

Also, Horvie, St. Columba, the patron saint of Scotland
was not Scottish. He was Irish. It is interesting that most
of the patron saints of countries who credit those saints
with bringing them Christianity were not usually of those
countries. They came from elsewhere.

have
come to be appreciated for their simplicity and humility. St. Patrick
is
the patron saint of Ireland. His feast day is celebrated on March 17.






My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
ultimate power in the universe."

"VtSkier" wrote

SNIP

It is interesting that most
of the patron saints of countries who credit those saints
with bringing them Christianity were not usually of those
countries. They came from elsewhere.

Do you know of a patron saint of a country who is credited with bringing
them Christianity that actually came from that country? Just curious, would
surprise me if there was one.

--
Stephen B.

Stephen B. wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote

SNIP

It is interesting that most
of the patron saints of countries who credit those saints
with bringing them Christianity were not usually of those
countries. They came from elsewhere.


Do you know of a patron saint of a country who is credited with bringing
them Christianity that actually came from that country? Just curious, would
surprise me if there was one.

--
Stephen B.


Me too actually. So pointing out the obvious that
St Patrick was not Irish, is really a little pointless.
It is no crime to "adopt" a patron saint even if he/she
is not a native.

Randy Bryan wrote:
Small point, but his parents were NOT Roman, but "romanized", which
means they were locals who adopted the Roman manner of dress and Roman
lifestyle. Many of Britain's indigenous did this.

Point, Patrick was British, but not still not Irish.

With the exception of the Dublin religious parade, there was NOT a
nationwide celebration of Pat's Day in Erin. Nor do we eat corned beef
and cabbage, nor drink green beer. All of these are Yank inventions.

Yank Irish, of course. They left the "old country" and so needed
a connection. If you live there, the connection is already
part of your culture and external show is not needed so much.

(snip)

VtSkier wrote:

Where did you find this Horvie? It was pretty good up to
this point. Ireland was conquered by neither the British
no the Romans in the 5th century. In fact the Irish of
the time were doing nasty things to the British as were
the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The British didn't have a
"prayer".

It's true that Ireland was not conquered by the Celtic British, nor vice
versa. But there were considerable back-and-forth raids. Parts of
Wales, for instance, were ruled by princelings who had come over from
Ireland. The people Patrick was addressing in his letter were British
warlords who had sailed over to Ireland and captured Irish Christinas.

Ireland pretty much maintained its independence up to the
Norman invasion of England (1066). Sometime thereafter, a
number of Norman/English nobility went to Ireland and set
up feudal fiefs on the Continental pattern, which Ireland
did not have prior to this. The Normans became "more Irish
than the Irish" and successfully fought off most English
incursions until Queen Elizabeth I (1600+/-). After that
point Ireland was mostly governed by England.

The Normans were pretty savage. When they arrived in Wexford, for
instance, they announced themselves by breaking the limbs of local
notables and throwing them into the sea.

Also, Horvie, St. Columba, the patron saint of Scotland
was not Scottish. He was Irish. It is interesting that most
of the patron saints of countries who credit those saints
with bringing them Christianity were not usually of those
countries. They came from elsewhere.

Yes, St. Columba came from Ireland, but so did the "Scots" themselves.
What we call Scotland today was originally inhabited by the Picts (at
least north of the Antonine wall). "Scots" was originally the name for
the Irish in Roman times. These people came from Ulster to modern-day
Scotland and took over from the Picts, through conquest and
intermarriage. Hence the name "Scotland".

Dave

Dave Stallard wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

Where did you find this Horvie? It was pretty good up to
this point. Ireland was conquered by neither the British
no the Romans in the 5th century. In fact the Irish of
the time were doing nasty things to the British as were
the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The British didn't have a
"prayer".

It's true that Ireland was not conquered by the Celtic British, nor
vice
versa.

No, but the Vikings sure had some good romps through there. They
founded Dublin, btw.

Martha

Black Metal Martha wrote:
Dave Stallard wrote:

VtSkier wrote:


Where did you find this Horvie? It was pretty good up to
this point. Ireland was conquered by neither the British
no the Romans in the 5th century. In fact the Irish of
the time were doing nasty things to the British as were
the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The British didn't have a
"prayer".

It's true that Ireland was not conquered by the Celtic British, nor

vice

versa.


No, but the Vikings sure had some good romps through there. They
founded Dublin, btw.

Martha

True enough, but not until the 8th/9th centuries. In fact when
the Norse got to Iceland in the 9th century they found Irish monks.

VtSkier wrote:
Black Metal Martha wrote:
Dave Stallard wrote:

VtSkier wrote:


Where did you find this Horvie? It was pretty good up to
this point. Ireland was conquered by neither the British
no the Romans in the 5th century. In fact the Irish of
the time were doing nasty things to the British as were
the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The British didn't have a
"prayer".

It's true that Ireland was not conquered by the Celtic British, nor

vice

versa.


No, but the Vikings sure had some good romps through there. They
founded Dublin, btw.

Martha

True enough, but not until the 8th/9th centuries. In fact when
the Norse got to Iceland in the 9th century they found Irish monks.


Yes, good point. I've traveling to Scandinavia several times and have
visited nearly every Viking museum I can. The best exhibit was one in
Rothskilde, Denmark that showed how the two cultures (Celtic and
Viking) merged. Fascinating stuff.

Martha

Dave Stallard wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

Where did you find this Horvie? It was pretty good up to
this point. Ireland was conquered by neither the British
no the Romans in the 5th century. In fact the Irish of
the time were doing nasty things to the British as were
the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The British didn't have a
"prayer".

It's true that Ireland was not conquered by the Celtic British, nor vice
versa. But there were considerable back-and-forth raids. Parts of
Wales, for instance, were ruled by princelings who had come over from
Ireland. The people Patrick was addressing in his letter were British
warlords who had sailed over to Ireland and captured Irish Christinas.

True enough, but the quote said something like
"His Epistola pleads the case of the Christian Irish at the hands of
their British conquerors." which I also found by googling on
St. Patrick.

Certainly there were raids back and forth and the more thoughtful
of the bio-sketches of St. Patrick said the Epistola was a letter
(not a book) complaining to a British leader about his treatment
of Christian Irish captives. Presumably the British were also
Christian and were expected to treat other Christians with some
semblance of respect and did not.

Ireland pretty much maintained its independence up to the
Norman invasion of England (1066). Sometime thereafter, a
number of Norman/English nobility went to Ireland and set
up feudal fiefs on the Continental pattern, which Ireland
did not have prior to this. The Normans became "more Irish
than the Irish" and successfully fought off most English
incursions until Queen Elizabeth I (1600+/-). After that
point Ireland was mostly governed by England.

The Normans were pretty savage. When they arrived in Wexford, for
instance, they announced themselves by breaking the limbs of local
notables and throwing them into the sea.

This would certainly make a point.

Also, Horvie, St. Columba, the patron saint of Scotland
was not Scottish. He was Irish. It is interesting that most
of the patron saints of countries who credit those saints
with bringing them Christianity were not usually of those
countries. They came from elsewhere.

Yes, St. Columba came from Ireland, but so did the "Scots" themselves.
What we call Scotland today was originally inhabited by the Picts (at
least north of the Antonine wall). "Scots" was originally the name for
the Irish in Roman times. These people came from Ulster to modern-day
Scotland and took over from the Picts, through conquest and
intermarriage. Hence the name "Scotland".

True enough, but was Columba the missionary to the Scots of
Dal Riada? Or was he the missionary to the Picts of the REST
of Scotland? The earliest incarnation of Dal Riada included
Ulster in Ireland and the Islands of Skye, Mull, Islay, Aran,
Jura, maybe Lewis and a small portion of the mainland, but
certainly not the bulk of what became "Scotland".

Remember also that the lowland "Scots" have been there since
the days of the Anglo-Saxon invasions and were not Irish and
not even Celtic. They were Angles and from them we have our
language of Bobby Burns. Lowland Scots dialect is not a
corrupted form of English from England as is the dialect
common around Dublin.

VtSkier

Dave