warm gloves: opinions on Swany sx-15 x-over glove?

Mary Malmros wrote:
MattB wrote:
(snip)

For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!"
poster just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if
you remember it.


I bet you had a pair of Hansen boots, too.
(so did I)

As did I. My Hansens lasted into the 90's. The liner rotted away to be
replace with the liner from a pair of Raichle rear-entry boots.

Now, who had a pair of K2 Bermuda Shorts?

VtSkier

lal_truckee wrote:
Mary Malmros wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have
confirmed/denied/discussed:

1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due
to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven.




Wrong





Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation
doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest?




Leather IS porous, and breaths, so you have to wax it to waterproof
it, regularly - a forgotten art - noone maintains gear anymore - they
replace it.



I use Sno-Seal on my Sorels, and I'm wondering if it makes sense to
use it on my gloves as well. Whadja think?


I do. On both. Do it over the heater while wearing the gloves.

Dam Sorels are ad hoc glued together these days - I need a new pair.
They make me look like the world's oldest liftie.

Just getting broken in, eh?

Mary Malmros wrote:
MattB wrote:

AstroPax wrote:

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:22:41 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:


Um, my sports bras aren't cotton. They're a synth material,
although the
label's been washed too many times to read clearly.




Just out of curiosity, theoretically, if you could actually read those
un-readable and faded labels, what would the size be?

-Astro


For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!"
poster just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if
you remember it.


I bet you had a pair of Hansen boots, too.
(so did I)


Actually at the time I think I may have had some really cheesy Alpina
rear-entry jobs. From those I "upgraded" to Salomon SX-92s and was
convinced a better boot would/could never be made.
I don't even remember what came before the Alpina boots, I have vague
memories of Cebe or pre-plastic Nordicas.

Matt (now using some lovely hunter orange TNTs for the alpine setup)

MattB wrote:
AstroPax wrote:

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:22:41 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:


Um, my sports bras aren't cotton. They're a synth material, although
the
label's been washed too many times to read clearly.



Just out of curiosity, theoretically, if you could actually read those
un-readable and faded labels, what would the size be?

-Astro


For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!" poster
just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if you
remember it.

Matt


So where's the image?

VtSkier wrote:

Dave M wrote:

uglymoney wrote:

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote:



On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:



snip


My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and
toes.




I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so
I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have
hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands
before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the
sweating/resulting cold.

A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A
physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last
summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a
drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this
disorder.



If it is that, simple asprin will help (or so claims the M.D. wife
who also claims to suffer from Raynaud's) as will a shot of Irish
Whiskey, your choice.


Wouldn't a shot of good single malt Scotch do just as well?


I would suppose so but I have no data. Perhaps some research is in
order. Of course for that, I would ned some %$##@! snow!

Dave M.

Chuck wrote:
snip


For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!"
poster just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if
you remember it.

Matt


So where's the image?


In my head. Using the word image in the classic sense.

Matt

On 2004-12-08, MattB penned:
Chuck wrote:
snip


For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!" poster
just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if you
remember it.

Matt


So where's the image?


In my head. Using the word image in the classic sense.


I don't get it. And my brain is usually keyed to innuendo pretty well.

--
monique

On 2004-12-07, The Real Bev penned:
"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote:

Seriously, what would you recommend wearing to keep your boobs from flying
all over the place in painful ways while skiing? I can't imagine landing
the tiniest jump without some decent support.

Duct tape? I was once told by models that they used masking tape to hang
their boobs from their shoulders when appropriate, but that was before duct
tape was discovered.

*shudder*

Worse than skiing is riding on the back of a GoldWing with bad shocks. At
one point I was holding my boobs in my hands to keep them from bouncing
around painfully. The next day I bought a sports bra.

Indeed. Some days, I think I need a sports bra just to jog down the stairs.
Other days, I could bounce on a trampoline with no problems. Don't ask me
why. I've certainly threatened to go Amazon more than once.

My hands and feet do get cold easily. I don't believe they've ever turned
white.

That's good. When I was smoking my index fingers would shrivel and turn
white and numb for perhaps half an hour if I touched something cold, but not
since I stopped.

Ack! That's scary.


In fact, according to my husband, they don't *feel* abnormally cold to him.
Still, they cause me pain, enough so that I have to make hot cocoa stops
when I'd rather be skiing. Any ideas?

Yeah. You're doomed. My 88-YO MIL has been cold all her life (she is
comfy, however, in Palm Springs at noon in the middle of summer), even when
she was young, before the heart trouble kicked in. None of her stable of
doctors has an explanation -- not the neurologist or the vein man or the
cardiologists or the orthopedist or the GP or...

Actually, I have a pretty good idea of what will help me. During the summer,
I got into a serious mountain biking regimen, as well as other activities. My
metabolism revved up to the point where I, who typically wears long sleeve
shirts and full-legged pyjamas to bed, under several layers of blankets, even
in the summer, was wearing shorts and a tank top under a sheet and was still
moaning about it being too hot. My hands, which typically are troublesome
even in the office, where of course they're elevated to type all day, were
also on better behavior.

Granted, I didn't sleep as well then. I think I may have actually overdone
the training thing, taking on too much to soon. But it was glorious not to be
cold.

So. It's a lot harder for me to get motivated to exercise in the winter, when
it's cold out and dark by the time I get home, but I need to find a way.

What about heated boots and/or polypropylene glove/sock liners?

Certainly an option. Heated boots worry me because I have problems with
awkwardly-shaped feet as well, and I'm concerned that heating the boots will
mask potentially serious circulation problems. But I'm planning to head to
Surefoot at Vail next week to see about getting some new boots, so I may just
ask them to install heaters. With their prices, I'm sure I won't notice the
additional cost.

--
monique
Longmont, CO

On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation
doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest?

Leather IS porous, and breaths, so you have to wax it to waterproof it,
regularly - a forgotten art - noone maintains gear anymore - they replace
it. Warmth is based on design - many materials can be used equally well. So
there's no "leather is best" or "cordura is best" answer. Study the design,
look for layers, look for how the system is waterproofed, etc. Hands are wet
from the outside (melting snow) and from the inside (sweat.) Being wet
doesn't necessarily imply cold - that depends on the layering and wind
protextion of the system. If you sweat alot you can try porous layers like
goretex, but IMO they're not going to keep up with sweating. (BTW, I use
leather gloves [with some ducttape] exclusively - as much because I'm a
traditionalist as anything.)

Dammit, I want simple answers! Having to think sucks!

It's rare that my hands are wet from the outside; constant that they're wet
from the inside.

All of what you said makes good sense. I actually find waterproofing leather
stuff to be kind of relaxing and fun, so I don't mind that, though I need to
find a good one. The last tube I had was German. Suggestions? I don't trust
the spray-on waterproofers; I want something that rubs in.

The salesguy said that he had these gloves, and he treats them with
waterproofing about once a year. He also said that he'd worn them to play
with his ferrets during the summer, and that his hands hadn't felt wet.
Granted, he might be really good at making stuff up as he goes along, but it
sounded honest.

The construction of these gloves does look solid. They have lots of little
features that impress me with the designers' awareness of skiing needs -- from
a soft patch for nose-wiping to a length of fabric designed for easy
teeth-clamping while pulling on the gloves. They look well-made. The
attached cards described a three-layer system for waterproofing, windproofing,
wicking, and possibly peace on earth, good will to men. There's a pouch on
the back of the hand for either venting or inserting a heatpack. I like this,
as one reason I've thus far avoided heat packs is the seeming awkwardness of
having a hot object smooshed into my palm. Much nicer to have it in a pouch.

3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten won't be
any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder about)

Wrong

What, no followup questions?

It matched my hunches, so no.

Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping
my hand warm?

Immaterial because you don't know the test conditions nor the subject gloves
- could be two pairs in summer. This kind of statement is gobbledy-gook for
the unwary.

True enough.

Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've
ever had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my
hands are too warm!

The glove may leak, or you may sweat. Few ski gloves will resist being
submerged in water - IMO all will leak water (even goretex/barrior gloves,
since the membrane will eventually tear under the kind of use a glove is
subjected to.) So keeping water off the gloves is important - and if they
lose heat too easily the heat melts the snow and you've got water on, and
therefore in the gloves; so you're back to studying the layers and warmth
and windresistence.

Makes sense.

Absolutely - in fact you put a hypothermic person in warm water to warm them
up. It depends on the glove layers - you want layers that don't transfer
heat wet or dry, and your hand heat will warm any water.

Maybe you need multiple gloves? Change off at midday? Don't forget different
weather gloves - sunny/blizzard/windy/spring all call for different
characteristics. I have four pair in my locker bag, and travel with even
more.

I have a pair of snowboarder pipe gloves I got for last year's late-season
Vail trip. Unless it's extremely warm, like the 50s, my hands are cold even
in supposedly warm gloves.

The main reason I question his glove recommendations is because he didn't
seem to be the type to have circulation issues.

Recommendations are like any other info source - it's as important to know
the why as the what. Why does he say what he says? I'd trust hiim more if he
said "these are the qualities of the gloves we carry; if you are really
cold, you might want to look at these other lines on the web or a competitor
store."

That is true. There's a ski shop next to the starbucks by the WP exit; a guy
there actually recommended a mountaineering brand (that I've now forgotten)
and recommended wearing a mitten with a thin, wicking glove liner inside.
They didn't carry the brand, so he recommended going to a store called Neptune
in Boulder. Anyway, his advice sounded, um, sound. But man am I leery of
mittens.

I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm,
though.

My helmet is very warm. What do you mean by "pretty warm?" You shouldn't
lose heat through your head - it'll make your fingers and toes cold.
Really! Has to do with circulation changes.

I have no sensation of cold wherever actual helmet covers my head. My ears
can sense a little bit of wind. The only problem I've had is when I'm in a
shady area on a cold day, going fast for long stretches, like tucking to get
down a blue feeder to the lift. In that case, the tiny gap between helmet and
goggles becomes searingly, painfully cold. But that has happened only once
that I can recall, coming down, hrm, is it Corona at Mary Jane?

My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes.

As a final resort you could try boot heaters - not too expensive, and some
folks swear by them.

Definitely a possibility I'll be exploring next week, when I look at new
boots.

--
monique
Longmont, CO

On 2004-12-07, Mary Malmros penned:

That's the kind of problem that I take to my Chinese herbalist friend, who's
usually got something that helps. I actually have an herbal formula that he
gave me to improve circulation, because my hands and feet tend to get cold
too (although not so much while skiing, more when I'm not moving).

These are the kind of health issues that a conventional Western physician
doesn't typically want to tackle, so if it is something you want to resolve,
a Chinese herbalist might not be a bad way to go.

I could possibly do that. But as I posted earlier, I'm pretty sure I know a
definite solution; it's just that, you know, it's *work*!

--
monique
Longmont, CO