Distance of the 3 Vallees Route

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:03:22 +0000, Bill Seddon wrote:


"Robert Swindells" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:08 +0000, Adrian D. Shaw wrote:

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Steve Haigh :
Either way, a 15% or 30 degree slope is steep in any language:-0

This brings up an interesting topic:
Is there a league table of steepest blacks in the Alps anywhere, with
their gradient? I'd love to know where the black down the Titlis at
Engelberg comes.

You get a top ten list of blacks in magazines every so often.

I have never seen the Engelberg one on such a list, and it isn't as steep
as those that I have skied that were on those lists.

Robert Swindells


Go on then, give us a clue as to what they are. I haven't bought a ski
magazine for years, too samey for me.

I haven't bought one for years either, but I can remember the Avoriaz wall
usually being on the list along with the run from the top of Mont Fort in
Verbier. I think I have seen Tortin suggested as well.

Robert Swindells

On 11 Feb 2004 11:48:39 -0800, (Plake)
wrote:

I know according to the Good Skiing Guide/Where to Ski a few years ago
that the Couloir sous la Telepherique at Courchevel was the steepest
piste in Europe, at 38 degrees, although I think it's recently been
changed to an off-piste route.

Sorry, but that's absolute cobblers. I've measured[1] many pistes
40deg, including the Aigle black run in Flaine, which I specifically
remember being 42deg on the first 'drop-in' pitch. I'm sure that's not
'the steepest' either.

[1] My compass has a clinometer built in.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:55:55 -0000, "Paul Schofield"
wrote:


"Ace" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:07:31 +0000 (UTC), "Crosbie Fitch"
wrote:


... snipsy ...


I'm curious as to how you remembered that sin/cos45 was 1/root2. Not
the sort of thing that sticks in most people's minds, I'd have
thought:-) Or is there a much simpler theorem that I've forgotten?


Simpler - 45degrees means 1 unit vertical for every 1 horizontal - our Greek
mate gives root 2 for the hypotenuse (i.e. the bit actually skied)

D'oh!

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:48:33 +0000, Steve Haigh
wrote:


Depending on where you are in the world the upper-limit for snow
adhesion (and I mean snow, not ice forming due to condensation etc)
varies. For reasons I do not fully understand snow sticks to very steep
slopes in the Andes (e.g. over 70 degrees),

West coast American (and I presume by extension south american) snow
tends to be much drier that we're used to in Europe, which means it
weighs less, plus they tend to have more prolonged periods of
consistent weather, leading to a more stable snowpack.

I guess such conditions make for spectacular avalanches too.

Accepted wisdom is that anything between 30 and 45 degrees is a
potential avalanche slope, with steeper ones not tending to accumulate
enough snow. This doesn't mean they can't avalanche, of course, just
that they will tend to have done so much sooner, i.e. as, or soon
after, the snow is falling.

But the 'mean' angle of most rick is quoted as 38degrees in North
America, with a figure closer to 35 degrees tendiong to be used in
Europe. These are, of course, only estimates, but demonstrate your
point that snow-holding slopes can indeed be steeper over there.

In Alaska and
the west coast of BC snow seems to accumulate on very steep slopes also.
It is certainly possible to ski powder at an angle over 50 degrees
sustained over a long pitch. I'm told it's due to the humidity as these
areas are very close to the Pacific.

Ah yes, I should have read on...

I'm not sure about the alps, but I know snow is "dryer"

See above - I beleive it's actually the other way around.

and sticks less
easily so 45 degrees is a reasonable guess for the steepest slope on
which snow can accumulate in skiable amounts, but I do not know of any
pistes which get anywhere near this. And if I managed to cover 67km in
a day on such a slope I would be pretty chuffed and pretty knackered
[and probably lying].

Yupp. The most I've done in a day is about ten km verticle, which
equates to something in the order of 17km on the snow.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Ace wrote:

Sorry, but that's absolute cobblers. I've measured[1] many pistes

40deg, including the Aigle black run in Flaine, which I specifically

remember being 42deg on the first 'drop-in' pitch. I'm sure that's not
'the steepest' either.

Interesting, that run has crossed my mind as I read this thread, I'd no
idea what the pitch was though. I was on it the other day thinking, as
usual, how steep it was. It also goes to show some of the estimates of
pitch people make are massively over-stated :-)

Ian

Hi Robert

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:41:54 +0000, "Robert Swindells"
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:03:22 +0000, Bill Seddon wrote:

I have never seen the Engelberg one on such a list, and it isn't as steep
as those that I have skied that were on those lists.

Robert Swindells

Perhaps the writer of the list don't know this slope.
I would say the the frist 30-40m got 40-50°.
A other reason could be. It starts steep and goes flat.

Go on then, give us a clue as to what they are. I haven't bought a ski
magazine for years, too samey for me.

I haven't bought one for years either, but I can remember the Avoriaz wall
If you mean Le Mur Suisse, Pas de Chavanette / Champéry - Les Crosets
is there a link:
http://www.chablais.info/ClientImage...Wc_692Llj9APIg)
but only french/german

usually being on the list along with the run from the top of Mont Fort in
Verbier. I think I have seen Tortin suggested as well.

Johannes

J.B. Memascii wrote:

(Adrian D. Shaw) wrote in message news:c0deko$6o22$1@ce=
ntral.aber.ac.uk...
=20
Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd =

Steve Haigh :

Either way, a 15% or 30 degree slope is steep in any language:-0

This brings up an interesting topic:
Is there a league table of steepest blacks in the Alps anywhere, with
their gradient? I'd love to know where the black down the Titlis at=20
Engelberg comes.

Adrian
=20
=20
There's one in Kitzb=FChel that's marked something along the lines of
"Danger, up to 70 degrees". I felt like a complete hero when I first=20
did it. It was only when I got home and looked at the photo I'd=20
proudly taken of the sign that I noticed it was actually "Danger, up=20
to 70%" which is I'd guess little over 30 degrees. Deflated or what.

31.5' :-) It's hard to hold an edge over 60', at 70' it's as near to=20
vertical as makes no odds. Snow also has something called the "angle of=20
repose", that's the maximum angle it's stable at, for dry snow that's=20
around 63'

It's really hard to judge angles for most of us I think, for example,=20
you obviously found 30' or so fairly steep as would most people, yet=20
it's around the angle of the stairs in a normal house. You do hear some=20
tall tales in bars or on lifts about the angle of the pitch someone just =

skied, in fact you just hear some total rubbish generally :-)

I see that FaceWest sell the Orotovox Inclinometer :

http://www.facewest.co.uk/Products%2...ories/accesso=
reis.htm

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:49:07 +0100, Ian Spare
wrote:


I see that FaceWest sell the Orotovox Inclinometer :

http://www.facewest.co.uk/Products%2...ccessoreis.htm

Got one built-in on my compass (Suunto). Much easier.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Robert Swindells :
I haven't bought one for years either, but I can remember the Avoriaz wall
usually being on the list along with the run from the top of Mont Fort in
Verbier. I think I have seen Tortin suggested as well.

You mean the "Swiss Wall" down the Swiss side from the top of Avoriaz?
I've skied that - albeit 11 years ago - and I have to say I thought
Titlis was steeper.

Adrian

--
Adrian Shaw ais@
Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Johannes :
Perhaps the writer of the list don't know this slope.
I would say the the frist 30-40m got 40-50°.
A other reason could be. It starts steep and goes flat.

And someone who freaks at the top (as my wife did last year) doesn't
un-freak until they get right to the bottom. I'd hardly describe the
lower section as "flat" though - it's steeper than red all the way to
the cable-car station.

Adrian

--
Adrian Shaw ais@
Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk