Any recent Demos of note to report?

With a demo day at the Telemark last Friday and others elsewhere, it
would be interesting to hear some impressions.

I tried out the new Fischer Centrix skate boots, still in pilot testing
(I know..). I had to smile, as the marketing sheet presents them as the
skate boot for the new skating style. With both of their boots, Fischer
says it has adjusted the last to curve to the bottom of the average
foot, rather than lay flat, as most lasts do. The downside I noticed is
that they've given up some layers to accomplish that, so that even on a
33F day the bottoms felt a touch cold with Craft socks on. The main
difference and seeming advantage, though, is that the plastic bracing
only comes up to the bottom of the ankle, allowing the ankle to flex
more freely for skating and to be less encumbered for maneuvering on
downhills. No more high ankle bracing. This is something Alpina tried
with their low cut skate boots in the mid 1990s, but this one has a
comforatble full ankle collar and the plastic seems to come highter for
better support. I didn't get to test them on any real downhills, but
did like that freer ankle feel for skating. The last has big forefoot
and heel boxes. I suspect both, or at least the heel, will be too large
for a lot of people, as it was for even my normal-sized side. I
suggested a heel strap, a la Salomon, and perhaps a fore/aft one would
be good, too. OTOH, maybe they were leaving room for thicker, warmer
socks. Both style boots are currently on the relatively heavy side,
altho I didn't feel it in 20 minutes of use. The soles are thicker than
any boot I've seen, but not hard to clear of snow. The released model
for the Fall is supposed to be lighter, according to Eli Brown. It
looks like a boot with a lot of potential and, as is typical with
Fischer boots (but not their skis), should be priced below the top
competitors (~$290 MSRP for the skate boot). The low dollar lately has
driven up the price of foreign goods.

Gene Goldenfeld

I tried on a couple of pairs of the Fischer boots last week as well.
Didn't ski them since we were in the back room at Finn-Sisu, but my
thoughts were that a)they seemed like a sound idea, and b)they are way
too wide for my feet. I suspect if carbon's fit, Fischers won't. I
also noticed that the proto round were pretty hefty feeling - especially
compared to TOL Rossis or Salomons. Hopefully the production boots will
be comparable to the other high end boots.

Marsh Jones


Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
With a demo day at the Telemark last Friday and others elsewhere, it
would be interesting to hear some impressions.

I tried out the new Fischer Centrix skate boots, still in pilot testing
(I know..). I had to smile, as the marketing sheet presents them as the
skate boot for the new skating style. With both of their boots, Fischer
says it has adjusted the last to curve to the bottom of the average
foot, rather than lay flat, as most lasts do. The downside I noticed is
that they've given up some layers to accomplish that, so that even on a
33F day the bottoms felt a touch cold with Craft socks on. The main
difference and seeming advantage, though, is that the plastic bracing
only comes up to the bottom of the ankle, allowing the ankle to flex
more freely for skating and to be less encumbered for maneuvering on
downhills. No more high ankle bracing. This is something Alpina tried
with their low cut skate boots in the mid 1990s, but this one has a
comforatble full ankle collar and the plastic seems to come highter for
better support. I didn't get to test them on any real downhills, but
did like that freer ankle feel for skating. The last has big forefoot
and heel boxes. I suspect both, or at least the heel, will be too large
for a lot of people, as it was for even my normal-sized side. I
suggested a heel strap, a la Salomon, and perhaps a fore/aft one would
be good, too. OTOH, maybe they were leaving room for thicker, warmer
socks. Both style boots are currently on the relatively heavy side,
altho I didn't feel it in 20 minutes of use. The soles are thicker than
any boot I've seen, but not hard to clear of snow. The released model
for the Fall is supposed to be lighter, according to Eli Brown. It
looks like a boot with a lot of potential and, as is typical with
Fischer boots (but not their skis), should be priced below the top
competitors (~$290 MSRP for the skate boot). The low dollar lately has
driven up the price of foreign goods.

Gene Goldenfeld

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Gene Goldenfeld wrote:

With a demo day at the Telemark last Friday and others elsewhere, it
would be interesting to hear some impressions.

I didn't get there to see them, but a local shop put out a note
recently that their Louis Garneau rep was coming by recently with
some skis that they will be offering next season. Anybody heard
more about this? I wonder who will be manufacturing them...

-Mitch

Marsh Jones wrote in message news:cwv_b.47595$4o.64291@attbi_s52...
I tried on a couple of pairs of the Fischer boots last week as well.
Didn't ski them since we were in the back room at Finn-Sisu, but my
thoughts were that a)they seemed like a sound idea, and b)they are way
too wide for my feet. I suspect if carbon's fit, Fischers won't. I
also noticed that the proto round were pretty hefty feeling - especially
compared to TOL Rossis or Salomons. Hopefully the production boots will
be comparable to the other high end boots.

First I'll start by saying that I'm a Fischer ambassidor.(sp?) I know
that Gene has (in the past) had real problems with opinions from
"affiliated people." Ironically, the pricing I got on skis this year
from Fischer is the same as the pricing I was quoted by my local shop
(Joe's ski shop). The advantage of signing up with Fischer is that I'm
in the pipeline (first to get new gear like the boots), I get some
clothing, and I'm in the network. You'd be surprised at the info (like
wax testing) that comes through the grapevine at a race like the
Birkie. Of course an affiliation like this only makes sense if you
really love the product.

Anyway, I skied the new skis boots for a good hour on Friday. I
generally have fit problems with any boots, and I think you can
probably do a search on my name and come up with articles I've posted
on how to modify boots with orthodics. When comparing the old yellow
Pilots, the Carbon boots, and the (now) old Fischer RCS boots, the
yellow Pilots required the most modification with orthodics, and the
Carbon boots required the least. (The carbon boots are very tight on
my feet. I can hardly get in the suckers.)

I doubt I will make any footbed changes to the new Centrix boot. I
normally ski in a 41, and I skied a 39 Centrix. The boot was right on
the edge of being too small, since my toes were just touching the boot
front. In spite of this, I was strongly considering skiing these boots
in the Birkie. The footbed was that much more comfortable than my
other boots, and I really liked the feeling, or I should say the lack
of feeling by stripping away the cuff. Eli talked me out of using them
in the Birkie, since it's kind of stupid to use new gear for a big
race.

After skiing the boots, Eli asked me how I liked the boots and I said,
"I didn't notice them, and that's a big compliment." It takes me about
30 min of skiing in the carbons before I kind of settle in and feel
normal. The old Pilots are a fricking telemark boot. (I never liked
that boot, but it was warm.) The old Fischers are comfortable (after
my modifications), but I don't really like the fit for walking (at
least for me).

I heard that the new Centrix sole will be thinner than the prototype
sole. The prototype looks a little like a mountain bike shoe, but
maybe the boot front won't wear out so quickly like the current crop
of boots out there. (Turn you boots over and look at the front under
the binding pin.) If you've ever coached high schoolers, you'll know
how fast the boots can wear out.

So, the boots are very comfortable, but the sole bottoms are a little
funky looking.

Jay Wenner


Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
With a demo day at the Telemark last Friday and others elsewhere, it
would be interesting to hear some impressions.

I tried out the new Fischer Centrix skate boots, still in pilot testing
(I know..). I had to smile, as the marketing sheet presents them as the
skate boot for the new skating style. With both of their boots, Fischer
says it has adjusted the last to curve to the bottom of the average
foot, rather than lay flat, as most lasts do. The downside I noticed is
that they've given up some layers to accomplish that, so that even on a
33F day the bottoms felt a touch cold with Craft socks on. The main
difference and seeming advantage, though, is that the plastic bracing
only comes up to the bottom of the ankle, allowing the ankle to flex
more freely for skating and to be less encumbered for maneuvering on
downhills. No more high ankle bracing. This is something Alpina tried
with their low cut skate boots in the mid 1990s, but this one has a
comforatble full ankle collar and the plastic seems to come highter for
better support. I didn't get to test them on any real downhills, but
did like that freer ankle feel for skating. The last has big forefoot
and heel boxes. I suspect both, or at least the heel, will be too large
for a lot of people, as it was for even my normal-sized side. I
suggested a heel strap, a la Salomon, and perhaps a fore/aft one would
be good, too. OTOH, maybe they were leaving room for thicker, warmer
socks. Both style boots are currently on the relatively heavy side,
altho I didn't feel it in 20 minutes of use. The soles are thicker than
any boot I've seen, but not hard to clear of snow. The released model
for the Fall is supposed to be lighter, according to Eli Brown. It
looks like a boot with a lot of potential and, as is typical with
Fischer boots (but not their skis), should be priced below the top
competitors (~$290 MSRP for the skate boot). The low dollar lately has
driven up the price of foreign goods.

Gene Goldenfeld

Jay,

Glad to hear you like them. They look like a really nice boot - with
the always present caveat that they fit:-)
*That's where I've seen that sole*. It's the same look as the Pearl
Izumi mtb shoe.

As for affiliation, heck, I'm glad to have people who have connections
to the vendors - you usually get a better pipeline of info that way.

As for coaching wear, how about someone designing a cool snap-on sole
that will fit the Pilot pins? Easy on, easy off, easy to fit in a
pocket, no slip, nice&warm...

Marsh


Sly D. Skeez wrote:
Marsh Jones wrote in message news:cwv_b.47595$4o.64291@attbi_s52...

I tried on a couple of pairs of the Fischer boots last week as well.
Didn't ski them since we were in the back room at Finn-Sisu, but my
thoughts were that a)they seemed like a sound idea, and b)they are way
too wide for my feet. I suspect if carbon's fit, Fischers won't. I
also noticed that the proto round were pretty hefty feeling - especially
compared to TOL Rossis or Salomons. Hopefully the production boots will
be comparable to the other high end boots.


First I'll start by saying that I'm a Fischer ambassidor.(sp?) I know
that Gene has (in the past) had real problems with opinions from
"affiliated people." Ironically, the pricing I got on skis this year
from Fischer is the same as the pricing I was quoted by my local shop
(Joe's ski shop). The advantage of signing up with Fischer is that I'm
in the pipeline (first to get new gear like the boots), I get some
clothing, and I'm in the network. You'd be surprised at the info (like
wax testing) that comes through the grapevine at a race like the
Birkie. Of course an affiliation like this only makes sense if you
really love the product.

Anyway, I skied the new skis boots for a good hour on Friday. I
generally have fit problems with any boots, and I think you can
probably do a search on my name and come up with articles I've posted
on how to modify boots with orthodics. When comparing the old yellow
Pilots, the Carbon boots, and the (now) old Fischer RCS boots, the
yellow Pilots required the most modification with orthodics, and the
Carbon boots required the least. (The carbon boots are very tight on
my feet. I can hardly get in the suckers.)

I doubt I will make any footbed changes to the new Centrix boot. I
normally ski in a 41, and I skied a 39 Centrix. The boot was right on
the edge of being too small, since my toes were just touching the boot
front. In spite of this, I was strongly considering skiing these boots
in the Birkie. The footbed was that much more comfortable than my
other boots, and I really liked the feeling, or I should say the lack
of feeling by stripping away the cuff. Eli talked me out of using them
in the Birkie, since it's kind of stupid to use new gear for a big
race.

After skiing the boots, Eli asked me how I liked the boots and I said,
"I didn't notice them, and that's a big compliment." It takes me about
30 min of skiing in the carbons before I kind of settle in and feel
normal. The old Pilots are a fricking telemark boot. (I never liked
that boot, but it was warm.) The old Fischers are comfortable (after
my modifications), but I don't really like the fit for walking (at
least for me).

I heard that the new Centrix sole will be thinner than the prototype
sole. The prototype looks a little like a mountain bike shoe, but
maybe the boot front won't wear out so quickly like the current crop
of boots out there. (Turn you boots over and look at the front under
the binding pin.) If you've ever coached high schoolers, you'll know
how fast the boots can wear out.

So, the boots are very comfortable, but the sole bottoms are a little
funky looking.

Jay Wenner


Gene Goldenfeld wrote:

With a demo day at the Telemark last Friday and others elsewhere, it
would be interesting to hear some impressions.

I tried out the new Fischer Centrix skate boots, still in pilot testing
(I know..). I had to smile, as the marketing sheet presents them as the
skate boot for the new skating style. With both of their boots, Fischer
says it has adjusted the last to curve to the bottom of the average
foot, rather than lay flat, as most lasts do. The downside I noticed is
that they've given up some layers to accomplish that, so that even on a
33F day the bottoms felt a touch cold with Craft socks on. The main
difference and seeming advantage, though, is that the plastic bracing
only comes up to the bottom of the ankle, allowing the ankle to flex
more freely for skating and to be less encumbered for maneuvering on
downhills. No more high ankle bracing. This is something Alpina tried
with their low cut skate boots in the mid 1990s, but this one has a
comforatble full ankle collar and the plastic seems to come highter for
better support. I didn't get to test them on any real downhills, but
did like that freer ankle feel for skating. The last has big forefoot
and heel boxes. I suspect both, or at least the heel, will be too large
for a lot of people, as it was for even my normal-sized side. I
suggested a heel strap, a la Salomon, and perhaps a fore/aft one would
be good, too. OTOH, maybe they were leaving room for thicker, warmer
socks. Both style boots are currently on the relatively heavy side,
altho I didn't feel it in 20 minutes of use. The soles are thicker than
any boot I've seen, but not hard to clear of snow. The released model
for the Fall is supposed to be lighter, according to Eli Brown. It
looks like a boot with a lot of potential and, as is typical with
Fischer boots (but not their skis), should be priced below the top
competitors (~$290 MSRP for the skate boot). The low dollar lately has
driven up the price of foreign goods.

Gene Goldenfeld

Hi,

I like Marsh tried the Centrix at Finn Sisu and liked it. The problem for me
with my present boot (pilot), is the height of the boot. I don't need it and I
can't open them up enough to be comfortable. Short legs big calf.

The Fischer boot solved this. I demoed a size 43, fit very well. I used to
pair of demo skies, maybe 45 mns. Boots worked well. One little issue, arch
is high.

I'm looking forward to see the production boot.

Bill

Red Creek has been making no-slip soles for a couple of years now.
They have Pilot, SNS and NNN fitting models.
The steel studs on the bottom don't slip on ice.

Rodney

Marsh Jones wrote:



As for coaching wear, how about someone designing a cool snap-on sole
that will fit the Pilot pins? Easy on, easy off, easy to fit in a
pocket, no slip, nice&warm...

Gene, you were asking about getting a hold of Marc Gilbertson. My
comment asking if you were a stalker was totally meant in jest. You've
got to be kidding me that you took offense... Right? As for Wenner,
keep ripping him... Just kidding again!

Jay Tegeder
"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT
p.s. Anyone who knows you knows you're not a stalker!

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...
"Sly D. Skeez" wrote:

First I'll start by saying that I'm a Fischer ambassidor.(sp?) I know
that Gene has (in the past) had real problems with opinions from
"affiliated people." Ironically, the pricing I got on skis this year

Well, in two days, one Jay has out of the blue asked if I was a stalker
and now the other gratuitously throws out that I have "real problems"
with "affiliated people." Hmmm. No, Jay, there are "affilitated
people" with integrity out there, and I include you among them, this
cheap shot notwithstanding. Yes, I believe that affiliations typically
come at a price, however much individuals try to rationalize them or
claim they are independent thinkers or "straight shooters" (the sure
sign of trouble).

I figured yours was in jest and my response in that regard was meant
tongue in cheek, which is why I didn't say anything more. The other
Jay's comment was strange given that I had just given a favorable review
to the Fischer boots myself and he knows that I've never had a beef with
his sponsorships. Nonetheless, my replyt was too sharp.

GG

Jay Tegeder wrote:

Gene, you were asking about getting a hold of Marc Gilbertson. My
comment asking if you were a stalker was totally meant in jest. You've
got to be kidding me that you took offense... Right? As for Wenner,
keep ripping him... Just kidding again!

Jay Tegeder
"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT
p.s. Anyone who knows you knows you're not a stalker!

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...
"Sly D. Skeez" wrote:

First I'll start by saying that I'm a Fischer ambassidor.(sp?) I know
that Gene has (in the past) had real problems with opinions from
"affiliated people." Ironically, the pricing I got on skis this year

Well, in two days, one Jay has out of the blue asked if I was a stalker
and now the other gratuitously throws out that I have "real problems"
with "affiliated people." Hmmm. No, Jay, there are "affilitated
people" with integrity out there, and I include you among them, this
cheap shot notwithstanding. Yes, I believe that affiliations typically
come at a price, however much individuals try to rationalize them or
claim they are independent thinkers or "straight shooters" (the sure
sign of trouble).

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...
I figured yours was in jest and my response in that regard was meant
tongue in cheek, which is why I didn't say anything more. The other
Jay's comment was strange given that I had just given a favorable review
to the Fischer boots myself and he knows that I've never had a beef with
his sponsorships. Nonetheless, my replyt was too sharp.

I seem to remember you (Gene) making some comments to the effect that
the information coming from me about Cerax couldn't be believed
because I was a rep. The idea continued with other posters (and their
affiliations).

I took a look through the subject lines of a sexillion (trilliard for
the UK folks) messages and didn't find anything, so maybe my memory is
bad. Anyway, that's were the disclosure lines right up front came
from. My appologies if I'm wrong.

I'm getting old. You might as well put a death nail in my coffin. I'm
so taken for granite, but I have a photogenic memory.

Jay Wenner