Burton C60

Thought I'd also give an upgrade on my Burton C60 bindings. They are
wicked light (3.7 lbs... that might be less than one of my old Catek
FR bindings), nice and stiff, but not too stiff (didn't have any type
of calf bruising). I do freeride and freestyle on them Here is a photo
sequence of me doing a small rock drop:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/3...349448bd55.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/3...233de0eb3b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/3...7a2d3c6cb3.jpg

Incidentally, I was riding with Santa:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/3...57434ab2eb.jpg

For freestyle, they are a little stiff, but not terribly so. I do
caveat that by saying that I'm riding size Smalls, which have a lower
highback and I've moved the straps to the lowest hole for more lateral
flex.

However, unfortunately, I broke them after about 5-6 days of riding.
Took about two weeks, but Burton just told me they are mailing me a
replacement (they apologized for the delay - the factory was closed
for a week for inventory). I still like them though and so long as
Burton keeps replacing my bindings - I'll ride them (now I always keep
a second pair nearby as a backup though).

Just as a running count - this is the third pair of Burton bindings
I've broken in the past 5 years.

'02 Missions (heelcup) - ridden 5 days, returned to store
'03 P1s (FLAD) - ridden 20 days, replaced by Burton after a week
'05 C60 (baseplate) - ridden 6 days, replaced by Burton after 3 weeks

I should mention that from 99-02 (was about 100 days) I rode a pair of
K2s without any problems, and after the Mission broke I rode a pair of
Salomon SP4 Shaped from '02-04 (about 50 days) without problems. I
only rode those Cateks for like 10 days before selling them because
they were so heavy and harsh for me (switched to Nidecker 800, which
are really damp... still a little heavy).

On Feb 8, 11:38 am, "lonerider" wrote:
Thought I'd also give an upgrade on my Burton C60 bindings. They are
wicked light (3.7 lbs... that might be less than one of my old Catek
FR bindings), nice and stiff, but not too stiff (didn't have any type
of calf bruising). I do freeride and freestyle on them Here is a photo
sequence of me doing a small rock drop:

By upgrade I meant "update", plus I linked to the wrong Santa photo.
Here's the full sequence.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/3...706338aafb.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/3...57434ab2eb.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/3...2844e0f551.jpg

lonerider wrote:


Just as a running count - this is the third pair of Burton bindings
I've broken in the past 5 years.

'02 Missions (heelcup) - ridden 5 days, returned to store
'03 P1s (FLAD) - ridden 20 days, replaced by Burton after a week
'05 C60 (baseplate) - ridden 6 days, replaced by Burton after 3 weeks


You broke three Burton Bindings? But never had any Problems with other
Brands? Why do you still by them?
I ride a Burton P1 Carbon myself. I love this Binding and I'm very
unhappy, that they don't go on producing them.
Here is ther Damage History for them:
- crack in the lacquering of the carbon highback (after 12 days)
- cracked a strap (after 20 days)

On Feb 9, 4:25 am, René Bedbur wrote:
lonerider wrote:

Just as a running count - this is the third pair of Burton bindings
I've broken in the past 5 years.

'02 Missions (heelcup) - ridden 5 days, returned to store
'03 P1s (FLAD) - ridden 20 days, replaced by Burton after a week
'05 C60 (baseplate) - ridden 6 days, replaced by Burton after 3 weeks

You broke three Burton Bindings? But never had any Problems with other
Brands? Why do you still by them?


Must ride better than the rest!

On Feb 9, 6:18 am, "56fish" wrote:
On Feb 9, 4:25 am, René Bedbur wrote:

lonerider wrote:

Just as a running count - this is the third pair of Burton bindings
I've broken in the past 5 years.

'02 Missions (heelcup) - ridden 5 days, returned to store
'03 P1s (FLAD) - ridden 20 days, replaced by Burton after a week
'05 C60 (baseplate) - ridden 6 days, replaced by Burton after 3 weeks

You broke three Burton Bindings? But never had any Problems with other
Brands? Why do you still by them?

Must ride better than the rest!

I still buy them because:

1) I can't trash talk a brand or binding I haven't ridden in a couple
of years.
2) I can't resist a good deal on gear (the last two bindings were both
over 50% off super clearance).
3) Some Burton items are actually decent (not all)
4) I figure at a measly 141 lbs, I wasn't likely to break Burton's top
end, ultra-tech, flagship binding.

Just like I said last time their recent trend towards ultra-light gear
has lead them to shave every little possible ounce of excess material
off their bindings (perhaps too much) and it lead their stuff being
prone to breakage (see below for some examples). My most recent Burton
break just underlines my point despite what any Burton-phile or zealot
might tell you. I always believe that the truth lies somewhere between
all the hype and all the horror stories. Burton bindings have some
nice innovations in them, but you need to be willing to accept some
durability issues with them - they won't always break, but their
aren't incredibly sturdy either. You need to choose for yourself what
you want.

Just to explain, if you look at the C60 photo, it is clear that Burton
slim and slick looking little toe-strap adjustable slot innovation
makes that part of the baseplate weak and prone to breaking. If you
compare it to say a Nidecker 900 Carbon, or say a pair of Catek
Freerides, it's is *clear* that those are much more sturdy than Burton

Burton -
(Medium Size - http://farm1.static.flickr.com/
154/381858984_582630df35.jpg)
(Big Size - http://farm1.static.flickr.com/
154/381858984_582630df35.jpg)
Nidecker - http://static.backcountry.com/images/items/large/
NDK0007.jpg
Catek - http://catek.com/freeride.htm

Also on the lightweight boards... I was at a shop and saw a Burton
Vapor being brought in for repair. Apparently, to reduce weight,
Burton used a really thin layer PTEX that makes the board prone to
core shots (also only gave you 1.5 sets of inserts to reduce weight,
so limited 3D stance options). The owner said since the core isn't
wood, it's less of an issue as the damage is very localized to a
particular cell in the aluminum honeycomb, and he says the ride is
awesome (he sounded sincere... maybe he was rationalizing a $1000
purchase). As I was next in line for repair (to have a slightly
topsheet chip epoxied and clamped) the shop tech told me that that guy
has had like 3-4 core shots in the last two seasons because of it and
he's (the shop guy) not particularly fond of the board... of course
the shop tech only gets to fix the board, he doesn't get to ride it.

All this to claim that Burton has the lightest board on the market...
no WAIT! when you press them, they waffle and say the lightest board
Burton makes and refuse to get actual weight specifications (probably
the boards vary a bit in weight)... I wondered about that and
checked... actually TWSnow did a comparison and found the Elan Inverse
is lighter. I manage to get a weighing of a 160 Vapor and (5 lbs 10
ounces) and realized that it is also heavier than a '07 Rad Air Tanker
200 cm!!! (around 5 lbs 2 ounces) and barely lighter than my Nitro T2
(5 lbs 11 ounces) although my T2 is 152 cm. I'm guessing Burton's
marketing machine decided that hyping the weight of the core was the
best way to convince the impressionable masses to pay $1000 for a
board (versus the perhaps more truthful, but less persuasive line of
"it's an awesome ride").

So sure it's a light board, and it's nice to have "lighter" gear, but
don't get obsessed with buying THE lightest stuff. I mean that Prior
Khyber 160 split I rode was like 8 lbs 8 ounces (pretty hefty for a
board) and it still rode really nicely and I didn't notice the weight
at all riding (jumping and spinning in the air yes... but why would
you need to take a powder split board into the park aside to provide a
point).

Anyways, to conclude this gear ramble... their is Burton-hype, Burton-
love and Burton-hate... and all of us regular joes are often left just
figure it all out on our own... hence when I just try the stuff. I'm
told Burton gear resells really well btw!

So sure it's a light board, and it's nice to have "lighter" gear, but
don't get obsessed with buying THE lightest stuff. I mean that Prior
Khyber 160 split I rode was like 8 lbs 8 ounces (pretty hefty for a
board) and it still rode really nicely and I didn't notice the weight
at all riding (jumping and spinning in the air yes... but why would
you need to take a powder split board into the park aside to provide a
point).

Sorry if this is a threadjack - just wanted to say that the best experience
on a snowboard I have had in my life is on a board that weighs about *15
POUNDS*. Here it is: http://www.oldsnowboards.com/pics/album150 (it is
owned by a buddy of mine who let me ride it)

This is a GS board that will rail through, over or on anything. The
construction and derby plate give it stability that is beyond comparison
with anything else I have ever ridden, the weight constributed to that
stability as well. I could literally do no wrong in this board.

My only reason for bringing it up is that for some things (i.e.,
applications where you don't leave the ground often), light is NOT
necessarily better. (Yes, there are some really light GS boards such as the
Prior Metal... that get raves... at least one reviewer says he can make more
runs per day on a lighter board...)

Anyhoo, the ride on this board blew away that of my beloved Doneks, Coilers,
and Madd 158. The price tag also blows away those of my Doneks, Coilers,
and Madd.... Tinkler Designs starts at $2000. That's the only reason I
don't have one. Yet.

Mike T




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On Feb 9, 10:43 am, "lonerider" wrote:
lonerider wrote:

Just as a running count - this is the third pair of Burton bindings
I've broken in the past 5 years.

'02 Missions (heelcup) - ridden 5 days, returned to store
'03 P1s (FLAD) - ridden 20 days, replaced by Burton after a week
P1 - http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/11...9014522cdd.jpg
'05 C60 (baseplate) - ridden 6 days, replaced by Burton after 3 weeks
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/154/3...582630df35.jpg

Anyways, to conclude this gear ramble... their is Burton-hype,Burton-
love and Burton-hate... and all of us regular joes are often left just
figure it all out on our own... hence when I just try the stuff. I'm
told Burton gear resells really well btw!

Ok, looks like Burton still need to work on their durability issues as
this weekend I was riding with someone sporting '07 Cartels (ridden 12
days) and he shattered the heelcup dropping into a chute - here is a
photo (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/4...90a27c914.jpg). I
guess it will be 2-3 more years before I check out Burton's binding
again to see if they've fixed these problems. I do like the toecap
design a lot (although I guess Burton stole that idea from another
company anyways) and the overall ergonomics of the bindings are nice.
I'm going to check out Rome bindings next (the 390's look nice).

I will remark that I don't hate Burton gear, nor do I have any
affiliation with one of it's rivals. I just like to snowboard and try
out gear... so when some shop guy tells you that "Burton stuff rarely
breaks" just look at the photos I've linked here and decide for
yourself.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:40:37 GMT, "lonerider"
allegedly wrote:

Ok, looks like Burton still need to work on their durability issues as
this weekend I was riding with someone sporting '07 Cartels (ridden 12
days) and he shattered the heelcup dropping into a chute - here is a

Yikes, not good... especially if you're on some steeps.

I'm going to check out Rome bindings next (the 390's look nice).

Have you tried any of Ride's stuff? My misses has the Diva binding which
appears well built. She sometimes has issues getting the ratchet to bite
on the ladder strap, and occassionally struggles to undo them, but they're
doing well.

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org.uk/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow.
Donek Sasquatch 162, Prior Pow 181, Burton Canyon 162

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/

On Feb 28, 4:29 am, Switters wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:40:37 GMT, "lonerider"

allegedly wrote:
Ok, looks like Burton still need to work on their durability issues as
this weekend I was riding with someone sporting '07 Cartels (ridden 12
days) and he shattered the heelcup dropping into a chute - here is a

Yikes, not good... especially if you're on some steeps.

I'm going to check out Rome bindings next (the 390's look nice).

Have you tried any of Ride's stuff? My misses has the Diva binding which
appears well built. She sometimes has issues getting the ratchet to bite
on the ladder strap, and occassionally struggles to undo them, but they're
doing well.

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.http://www.vpas.org.uk/- Snowboarding the worlds pow pow.
Donek Sasquatch 162, Prior Pow 181, Burton Canyon 162

The Snowboard FAQ lives here -http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/

I technically have a pair of Ride Flight Tomcats and have demo'd Ride
SPI's, but both were too big for me (size wise). Otherwise they seem
very nice - aluminum baseplate and heelcup so much less prone to
breakage. Very light. Ironically, despite all the breaks I've had, I
still think I prefer the feel of non-metal bindings since the only non-
metal ones that have broken are Burton bindings (none of the other
brands I've ridden have broken). Maybe I'll check out some Rides in
the future. Actually, I might get a Spark Binding which is a converted
Ride Binding (new baseplate though).