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#21
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lal_truckee wrote:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: But I don't want a ski that will perform optimally in all conditions ... I want a ski that will perform decently in most. I don't know if that's enough of a concession to be realistic, though. Here's a video that shows why you don't need edges, or even bases, on a powder ski - look at the about half way point in the video (first half is somebody tobogganing.) http://jacksonhole.com/movies/012702.html Gawd I love his expression when he pauses for air... Har, I have this wonderful picture that I got from Mikey's website which shows a skier in front of a snowboarder (tobogganer). The tobogganer is way up on top of the snow and the skier can basically be seen because of his snorkel. VtSkier |
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#22
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On 2004-12-20, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: But I don't want a ski that will perform optimally in all conditions ... I want a ski that will perform decently in most. I don't know if that's enough of a concession to be realistic, though. Here's a video that shows why you don't need edges, or even bases, on a powder ski - look at the about half way point in the video (first half is somebody tobogganing.) http://jacksonhole.com/movies/012702.html Gawd I love his expression when he pauses for air... Nice. Seems like it would more accurately called "snow-floating" than "skiing" ... I've had the floaty sensation once in my life in powder; every other time, I've had the "drown-y" sensation. I have this huge fear of loss of control in powder. Then again, I'm also a bit claustrophobic; I wonder if that has something to do with it? -- monique Longmont, CO |
#23
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"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
... Powder is still my arch-nemesis; I'd love to learn to ski it well, but right now I tend to freak out and use harsh, sudden movements to control my speed, which usually controls me right into the snow, face-first. Fun in its own way, but not really my goal. I love that description, and hope to try it soon. All that being said, I progressed last year from being scared to even approach blue moguls to going down some pretty serious stuff, and I hope to keep improving at a similar rate. I'm big on learning proper technique and have no qualms about taking lessons to get there. I also need to work on my leg strength and/or cleaner technique, because my thighs are already tired after the first few runs, probably from trying to skid through moguls to scrub off speed. (My lesson this past weekend gave me some great tips on how to stay in control in the moguls without fighting the slope; I think those will make my thighs a lot happier.) snip Fortunately, my husband and I were the only ones to return after lunch, and almost everything that I learned came from those last few hours. I now have two great, concrete techniques to use in the moguls; one will keep me from lifting my inner ski; the other will help me keep the speed I want in the moguls without going too fast or exhausting my thighs as much as I have been. What were those hints? Stephen NYC |
#24
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On 2004-12-21, Stephen B. penned:
"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message ... almost everything that I learned came from those last few hours. I now have two great, concrete techniques to use in the moguls; one will keep me from lifting my inner ski; the other will help me keep the speed I want in the moguls without going too fast or exhausting my thighs as much as I have been. What were those hints? Stephen NYC Oh, you think it's that easy, do ya? Just ask and I'll give up these secrets? Okay, maybe I will. But please bear in mind that: [disclaimer] I'm trying to describe in pure text what was shown to me repeatedly with words, gestures, and examples The advice given to me may not apply to you, as your bad habits may not be the same as mine As always, if I report something that's completely wrong, it's my error and not the instructor's This advice is worth exactly as much as you've paid me for it, and is guaranteed for the same amount [/disclaimer] Anyway. There are several ways to ski moguls. I can't help you with the type you see on TV, where the skier's knees are just bouncing up and down and there's no apparent lateral motion. Even if I had the guts and reflexes to do that, I value my knees pretty highly. No, I go for more of a weaving approach. Ideally, I'd thread my way around moguls and make steady downward progress. Right now, there's a good deal of horizontal movement, and I typically make 3-5 turns, then have to stop and evaluate. Both of my mogul instructors have pegged me as a "shopper," traversing half the slope looking for that perfect line for each turn, then failing to commit enough when I do find something. There's also a psychological element to my difficulty with moguls. The ex-boyfriend who introduced me to skiing believed that anything other than the above-mentioned knee-bouncing approach to moguls was sinful, as it would scrape snow off the moguls (nevermind that that's how moguls are formed in the first place). No, his advice to me, then a beginner/low intermediate skier, was to go straight down the mogul run and just learn to move my legs fast enough for the speed I accumulated. I wonder why I had such a hard time learning mogul skiing from him? Okay, on to trick number one. This addresses several bad habits: back-seat skiing and lifting the inside ski are the two obvious ones. When you're in the transition, skis somewhat horizontal across the mountain, take your downhill ski (the one that's about to become the inside ski), slide it forward just a hair, and put pressure on the outside edge. In other words, make sure that you're actively using that inside ski rather than just bringing it along for the ride. If you ice skate, this is a lot like what iirc are called power turns. Obviously, your outside ski still needs to do its normal thing, but the important point is that your inside ski is no longer just dead weight. Trick two may be harder for me to explain. Maybe I can start by describing my bad habits. Apparently, I try to scrub speed as soon as I start going downhill by skidding my skis, then abruptly forcing my skis into a turn across the front of the mogul. (Front? Back? The side closer to the bottom of the slope.) Problem number one: I'm trying to dump speed during the part of the turn that most wants to go fast. Problem number two: I dump so much speed during the downhill part that I don't have enough momentum to get around the next bump, and I often have to pole around the next turn. In order to get a smoother, more controlled run, the idea is to go ahead and let speed accumulate as my skis point down the mountain. Rather than forcing an abrupt turn too soon, allow my skis to turn on the back of the next mogul, not on the front of the current one. (Again, assuming front to be the side closest to the bottom of the slope, which may be the opposite of the proper definition.) During this transitional part of the turn, where my skis are more horizontal, I can scrub speed, even allowing the skis to go uphill a bit if I need to. By allowing myself to gather speed when my skis point downhill, only controlling speed during the transition where they point more to the side, I get a cleaner turn, more control, and less burning in the thighs. I also don't end up stuck on top of a mogul as often. The instructor also claimed that the best line is often a turn for every two moguls, rather than one. We both observed that double black moguls seem easier than blues, but we had different reasons. My instructor believes that double black moguls are shaped by better skiers and are therefore more regular; I believe that the extra steepness helps even a slowpoke like me get around the turn, whereas on a blue it's easier to get stuck. As with just about anything else, keeping your body mostly pointed down the mountain while your skis are doing whatever they need to do is important. This is where pole planting comes in; if you reach out with your pole and "tag" the mogul around which you plan to turn, it gets your body up front and facing forward. I hope all of that made some sense, is somewhat accurate, and is somewhat useful. -- monique Longmont, CO |
#25
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-21, Stephen B. penned: "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message .. . almost everything that I learned came from those last few hours. I now have two great, concrete techniques to use in the moguls; one will keep me from lifting my inner ski; the other will help me keep the speed I want in the moguls without going too fast or exhausting my thighs as much as I have been. What were those hints? Stephen NYC Oh, you think it's that easy, do ya? Just ask and I'll give up these secrets? Okay, maybe I will. But please bear in mind that: [disclaimer] I'm trying to describe in pure text what was shown to me repeatedly with words, gestures, and examples The advice given to me may not apply to you, as your bad habits may not be the same as mine As always, if I report something that's completely wrong, it's my error and not the instructor's This advice is worth exactly as much as you've paid me for it, and is guaranteed for the same amount [/disclaimer] Anyway. There are several ways to ski moguls. I can't help you with the type you see on TV, where the skier's knees are just bouncing up and down and there's no apparent lateral motion. Even if I had the guts and reflexes to do that, I value my knees pretty highly. Me too. No, I go for more of a weaving approach. Ideally, I'd thread my way around moguls and make steady downward progress. Right now, there's a good deal of horizontal movement, and I typically make 3-5 turns, then have to stop and evaluate. Both of my mogul instructors have pegged me as a "shopper," traversing half the slope looking for that perfect line for each turn, then failing to commit enough when I do find something. Several things for variation here, it has to do with snow conditions. A line which tries to maintain the least amount of bobbing up an down is most often the most comfortable. It may be one turn per bump or it may be one turn for every two or three bumps, but the snow between the bumps must be pretty good, not icy like it gets here in the east. I had a blast skiing bumps at Heavenly like this last week. The local dude I was skiing with had a hard time keeping up with my 62 year old knees. If the spaces between the bumps are icy, usually the bumps themselves are not because the snow has been scraped up onto the tops. For this I slide across the icy troughs with as flat a ski as possible and initiate the turn on the up side of the mogul, using up-slope as (for) unweighting and come down on the other side going in the opposite direction from the up side of the bump. Lots of up-down here, but it feels pretty natural because you are using the bump to initiate your turn, and it is a turn, not just a breaking "kick" against the bump. At Killington we have Outer Limits. A great run, but one on which lots of wanna-be's test themselves. There are lots of bumps but they rarely have a good line. To the really good bump skiers this doesn't seem to matter, but for competitions, Killington uses a bump seeding groomer to set the course so that there will be good bumps for the competitors. I generally avoid OL because there are lots of out of the way trails with bumps which are generally skied by better skiers and have great lines. I often wind up as the "local guy" here at K-mart. Often for better skiers that are looking for "interesting" places to ski. If they are a little cocky, I have a favorite place for them. It's called Vertigo and it's a series of short but very steep (approaching 45 degrees) drops with flats in between. The conditions are "wild thing", no snow making no grooming (well sometimes if it's bad enough) with bumps and rocks. I will zip down the first face and stop on the flat and look up to watch. When they all get down that I tell them there are two more drops but that the one they just came down is the hardest. Yes, I do have a sadistic side now and then. There's also a psychological element to my difficulty with moguls. The ex-boyfriend who introduced me to skiing believed that anything other than the above-mentioned knee-bouncing approach to moguls was sinful, as it would scrape snow off the moguls (nevermind that that's how moguls are formed in the first place). No, his advice to me, then a beginner/low intermediate skier, was to go straight down the mogul run and just learn to move my legs fast enough for the speed I accumulated. I wonder why I had such a hard time learning mogul skiing from him? The Vertigo story above is really about psychological difficulties. The thing LOOKS so bad that everyone thinks it's really hard. You can pick a line pretty straight down it and miss everything or if you need to go slow, there are lines which force pretty gentle traverses. It's never as bad as it looks. However, I do respect the closed rope when it's in place. Okay, on to trick number one. This addresses several bad habits: back-seat skiing and lifting the inside ski are the two obvious ones. When you're in the transition, skis somewhat horizontal across the mountain, take your downhill ski (the one that's about to become the inside ski), slide it forward just a hair, and put pressure on the outside edge. In other words, make sure that you're actively using that inside ski rather than just bringing it along for the ride. If you ice skate, this is a lot like what iirc are called power turns. Obviously, your outside ski still needs to do its normal thing, but the important point is that your inside ski is no longer just dead weight. This sound like it will work well but it also seems like a lot to think about in bumps. Wouldn't it work better to learn this on something less bumpy? Where you don't have to think so fast? This so that your body is doing the remembering and not your head. Trick two may be harder for me to explain. Maybe I can start by describing my bad habits. Apparently, I try to scrub speed as soon as I start going downhill by skidding my skis, then abruptly forcing my skis into a turn across the front of the mogul. (Front? Back? The side closer to the bottom of the slope.) Problem number one: I'm trying to dump speed during the part of the turn that most wants to go fast. Problem number two: I dump so much speed during the downhill part that I don't have enough momentum to get around the next bump, and I often have to pole around the next turn. In order to get a smoother, more controlled run, the idea is to go ahead and let speed accumulate as my skis point down the mountain. Rather than forcing an abrupt turn too soon, allow my skis to turn on the back of the next mogul, not on the front of the current one. (Again, assuming front to be the side closest to the bottom of the slope, which may be the opposite of the proper definition.) During this transitional part of the turn, where my skis are more horizontal, I can scrub speed, even allowing the skis to go uphill a bit if I need to. By allowing myself to gather speed when my skis point downhill, only controlling speed during the transition where they point more to the side, I get a cleaner turn, more control, and less burning in the thighs. I also don't end up stuck on top of a mogul as often. Sounds to me like you are fighting the hill or at least the bumps. It's not good to let the mountain (bumps) rule you, but if you allow them to set the pace and not fight, you will be less tired. The instructor also claimed that the best line is often a turn for every two moguls, rather than one. We both observed that double black moguls seem easier than blues, but we had different reasons. My instructor believes that double black moguls are shaped by better skiers and are therefore more regular; I believe that the extra steepness helps even a slowpoke like me get around the turn, whereas on a blue it's easier to get stuck. I agree with both observations. You need to "lighten up" as the slope gets less. Make the turns less abrupt with a smaller angle away from the fall line and finish your turn sooner. Remember the big-toe steering (ankle rolling) you sometimes do on groomed? You can do this on gentle bumps. Use it to change direction without scrubbing off speed. As with just about anything else, keeping your body mostly pointed down the mountain while your skis are doing whatever they need to do is important. This is where pole planting comes in; if you reach out with your pole and "tag" the mogul around which you plan to turn, it gets your body up front and facing forward. Yes and has anyone suggested using shorter poles for bumps? I hope all of that made some sense, is somewhat accurate, and is somewhat useful. I'm a survivor from the days when bumps often used to get to be the size of Volkswagens. The nearest I've seen these days are the large snowmaking whales that if you want to ski them, you must do so under the guns. These sometimes require two or three turns per bump, but the feeling you get skiing up, down and around these things is wonderful. VtSkier |
#26
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How about trying a Volkl 4 Star? It's not as stiff as the 5 Star and 6
Star. It has a 67mm waist, which isn't the best for powder, but won't sink all the way to the bottom. Should be good for bumps and still do well on the race course. Or if you want something a bit wider but still fairly quick, check out the Volkl 7 24 series. Disclaimer: I haven't had a chance to try any of these, but have yet to find anyone skiing on them who didn't love them. |
#27
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On 2004-12-21, VtSkier penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: Anyway. There are several ways to ski moguls. I can't help you with the type you see on TV, where the skier's knees are just bouncing up and down and there's no apparent lateral motion. Even if I had the guts and reflexes to do that, I value my knees pretty highly. Me too. My instructor claimed that mogul courses used to be much steeper than the ones they use for competition nowadays, and that because of the steepness you'd actually see athletes turning a bit more. No idea whether or not that's true. If the spaces between the bumps are icy, usually the bumps themselves are not because the snow has been scraped up onto the tops. For this I slide across the icy troughs with as flat a ski as possible and initiate the turn on the up side of the mogul, using up-slope as (for) unweighting and come down on the other side going in the opposite direction from the up side of the bump. Lots of up-down here, but it feels pretty natural because you are using the bump to initiate your turn, and it is a turn, not just a breaking "kick" against the bump. Yup, as I said, several ways to ski moguls. Going between them feels more natural to me, and I haven't had to deal with ice. If I were back east I'm sure I'd force myself to learn the other options. Also, I don't think that turning between bumps requires a "breaking" (braking?) kick. It can be done smoothly. At Killington we have Outer Limits. A great run, but one on which lots of wanna-be's test themselves. There are lots of bumps but they rarely have a good line. To the really good bump skiers this doesn't seem to matter, but for competitions, Killington uses a bump seeding groomer to set the course so that there will be good bumps for the competitors. I've seen that run, several years ago. IIRC there's a trail that traverses it, so I had to ski across the damn trail with bumps so big that the people skiing down couldn't see me, and I could only sometimes see them. I was definitely a beginner at the time, and that was some scary stuff. The Vertigo story above is really about psychological difficulties. The thing LOOKS so bad that everyone thinks it's really hard. You can pick a line pretty straight down it and miss everything or if you need to go slow, there are lines which force pretty gentle traverses. It's never as bad as it looks. However, I do respect the closed rope when it's in place. Much of skiing is about the psychology. If you believe you can do something, you often can. Not sure what that has to do with respecting boundaries, though; you should do that because, well, it's the right thing to do. Ropes don't mean "only ski this if you think you know better than the patrollers." Okay, on to trick number one. [snip] This sound like it will work well but it also seems like a lot to think about in bumps. Wouldn't it work better to learn this on something less bumpy? Where you don't have to think so fast? This so that your body is doing the remembering and not your head. Just to be clear, I wasn't posting this stuff because I wanted advice; I'm happy with the techniques mentioned. I posted it because someone asked me to do so. I felt immediate results when I used this technique; not only did it keep my skis in the snow, it gave me a much greater feeling of control. I don't really think that "put your downhill ski forward as you start a turn" is all that much to think about. Personally, practicing mogul techniques on groomers is hard, because I like to ski groomers with extremely long turns. Even if I mean to practice mogul techniques, I just get distracted. No, better to just suck it up and deal with the moguls. Anyway, moguls don't have to be skied quickly; I have plenty of time to think about the next turn, especially when I practice this in conjunction with the other tip. Finally, we tend to ski a lot of moguls, anyway, so I might as well be practicing this stuff. It may help that I do play ice hockey, so the feeling of moving the inside leg forward to initiate a turn is already familiar (this is one reason the instructor chose this drill, I believe). By allowing myself to gather speed when my skis point downhill, only controlling speed during the transition where they point more to the side, I get a cleaner turn, more control, and less burning in the thighs. I also don't end up stuck on top of a mogul as often. Sounds to me like you are fighting the hill or at least the bumps. It's not good to let the mountain (bumps) rule you, but if you allow them to set the pace and not fight, you will be less tired. Again, not looking for advice =) I only mentioned my bad habits to shed light on what my instructor was trying to fix. The tips he gave me will help me manage the bumps at a speed that's comfortable for me. It's obvious that I'm scared of building up speed in the moguls. Your suggestion sounds a lot like "just suck it up and go faster." There's no need. I can learn to do bumps slowly, then speed it up as I get better. I agree that going way too slowly is tiring, but it's better to have a tiring run than no run at all. And again, the instructor's advice addresses my concerns. I agree with both observations. You need to "lighten up" as the slope gets less. Make the turns less abrupt with a smaller angle away from the fall line and finish your turn sooner. Remember the big-toe steering (ankle rolling) you sometimes do on groomed? You can do this on gentle bumps. Use it to change direction without scrubbing off speed. Sure, if the bumps are mild enough, you can ski them a lot like you would a groomer. The trouble comes with the large bumps and deep troughs on shallow blues. Maybe your top of the mogul approach would work better there; I prefer to just avoid them =P As with just about anything else, keeping your body mostly pointed down the mountain while your skis are doing whatever they need to do is important. This is where pole planting comes in; if you reach out with your pole and "tag" the mogul around which you plan to turn, it gets your body up front and facing forward. Yes and has anyone suggested using shorter poles for bumps? Maybe? I'm extremely not interested in having different gear for different situations. My poles work just fine when I remember to use them. -- monique Longmont, CO |
#28
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
snip There's also a psychological element to my difficulty with moguls. The ex-boyfriend who introduced me to skiing believed that anything other than the above-mentioned knee-bouncing approach to moguls was sinful, as it would scrape snow off the moguls (nevermind that that's how moguls are formed in the first place). No, his advice to me, then a beginner/low intermediate skier, was to go straight down the mogul run and just learn to move my legs fast enough for the speed I accumulated. I wonder why I had such a hard time learning mogul skiing from him? Well, he was sort of right. Scrapers can ruin nice bumps. Especially snowboarding scrapers it seems. Where he failed (among other places I'm sure, since his status is "ex") was to find some more moderate, smaller bumps that would be more forgiving. Also, as much as I believe scrapers ruin bumps, I probably wouldn't tell my wife or girlfriend that while trying to teach them to ski the bumps. I think a huge thing here is you must be able to make good, clean, quick turns with a pronounced lead change on flats before you should expect to be able to do that in bumps. When I was on my college freestyle team we did tons of drills on flats to get things sorted technically before we even skied a single bump line. The guys all whined about it, but I think it made better skiers out of everyone. Okay, on to trick number one. This addresses several bad habits: back-seat skiing and lifting the inside ski are the two obvious ones. When you're in the transition, skis somewhat horizontal across the mountain, take your downhill ski (the one that's about to become the inside ski), slide it forward just a hair, and put pressure on the outside edge. In other words, make sure that you're actively using that inside ski rather than just bringing it along for the ride. If you ice skate, this is a lot like what iirc are called power turns. Obviously, your outside ski still needs to do its normal thing, but the important point is that your inside ski is no longer just dead weight. Trick two may be harder for me to explain. Maybe I can start by describing my bad habits. Apparently, I try to scrub speed as soon as I start going downhill by skidding my skis, then abruptly forcing my skis into a turn across the front of the mogul. (Front? Back? The side closer to the bottom of the slope.) I'd call that the back side. Problem number one: I'm trying to dump speed during the part of the turn that most wants to go fast. Problem number two: I dump so much speed during the downhill part that I don't have enough momentum to get around the next bump, and I often have to pole around the next turn. In order to get a smoother, more controlled run, the idea is to go ahead and let speed accumulate as my skis point down the mountain. Rather than forcing an abrupt turn too soon, allow my skis to turn on the back of the next mogul, not on the front of the current one. (Again, assuming front to be the side closest to the bottom of the slope, which may be the opposite of the proper definition.) During this transitional part of the turn, where my skis are more horizontal, I can scrub speed, even allowing the skis to go uphill a bit if I need to. By allowing myself to gather speed when my skis point downhill, only controlling speed during the transition where they point more to the side, I get a cleaner turn, more control, and less burning in the thighs. I also don't end up stuck on top of a mogul as often. Some bumps don't really even have backs (what you call fronts), especially on steeper stuff. This will be a good skill to have and can get you out of trouble sometimes. The instructor also claimed that the best line is often a turn for every two moguls, rather than one. We both observed that double black moguls seem easier than blues, but we had different reasons. My instructor believes that double black moguls are shaped by better skiers and are therefore more regular; I believe that the extra steepness helps even a slowpoke like me get around the turn, whereas on a blue it's easier to get stuck. I'd say both are true unless the slowpoke skier is really afraid of a little speed. Then it probably just compounds problems because it will be much harder to scrub that undesirable speed, and trying to do that may eclipse trying to reinforce good habits. As with just about anything else, keeping your body mostly pointed down the mountain while your skis are doing whatever they need to do is important. This is where pole planting comes in; if you reach out with your pole and "tag" the mogul around which you plan to turn, it gets your body up front and facing forward. This is huge, as well as the general hand position (think cafeteria tray) you need to have to successfully tap each bump. "Hands!" is probably the one thing I heard the most from any bump coach I've worked with. My problem is my first season with lots of ski days (and big breakthroughs) I had an injured arm (shattered elbow) that required me to have one arm splinted or just hanging there. I learned some bad habits in regard to hands that year and have never been able to shake them entirely. Matt |
#29
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MattB wrote:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: snip As with just about anything else, keeping your body mostly pointed down the mountain while your skis are doing whatever they need to do is important. This is where pole planting comes in; if you reach out with your pole and "tag" the mogul around which you plan to turn, it gets your body up front and facing forward. This is huge, as well as the general hand position (think cafeteria tray) you need to have to successfully tap each bump. "Hands!" is probably the one thing I heard the most from any bump coach I've worked with. Just add: drive the ski tips down to maintain snow contact and I think she's got it. To recap - effective mogul skiing technique includes: keep the boobs pointed down the fall line, shoulders level. keep the hands in front and level. reach with the poles (stay ahead of the skis.) drive the ski tips down (extend; maintain snow contact.) get some young knees. |
#30
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lal_truckee wrote:
MattB wrote: Monique Y. Mudama wrote: snip As with just about anything else, keeping your body mostly pointed down the mountain while your skis are doing whatever they need to do is important. This is where pole planting comes in; if you reach out with your pole and "tag" the mogul around which you plan to turn, it gets your body up front and facing forward. This is huge, as well as the general hand position (think cafeteria tray) you need to have to successfully tap each bump. "Hands!" is probably the one thing I heard the most from any bump coach I've worked with. Just add: drive the ski tips down to maintain snow contact and I think she's got it. To recap - effective mogul skiing technique includes: keep the boobs pointed down the fall line, shoulders level. keep the hands in front and level. reach with the poles (stay ahead of the skis.) drive the ski tips down (extend; maintain snow contact.) get some young knees. It's funny, I forget all of these tips after not being coached for the last decade. I'd like to think I just do them all naturally now, but the truth is probably more like I just do most of them naturally and learn to compensate for other bad habits that creep back in without someone shouting at me while I ski. It is nice to ski without being shouted at. Unless it's shouting like "Woo-hoo! Yeah! Nice!". But that makes my helmet tighter. Matt |
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