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rollerblading to improve BC Skiing?



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 17th 05, 10:24 PM
Tommy T.
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"H.W. Stockman" wrote
My right foot still doesn't always move as predicted, so I've
learned to use my left foot to lead in many tight situations. Now I have

to
do the same thing with skiing motions, particularly the fast motions in
turns. I'll find a way.


Be aware that you can turn either direction from a telemark position. We
think of the turn as being away from the lead ski, but if you've got the
edges working right you can turn toward the lead ski as well. I had one
clinic instructor who telemarked trees, linking tight turns, without
changing leads. He said it was quicker to turn against the lead than to
change leads. [For him maybe -- I only do that out on wide open slopes as a
way of practicing edge control.]

Tommy T.


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  #22  
Old February 18th 05, 02:32 AM
VtSkier
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H.W. Stockman wrote:
"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Feb.17.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote
in message ...
[...]

_ As for the original poster, you might try poking around
ebay or garage sales for a Nordic Track trainer. Here's
what I mean

http://tinyurl.com/49blg

_ You can get them used fairly cheap and they do provide
a good ski specific workout.




I wasn't specific enough in stating what I wanted. I don't have any problem
with a diamond glide; I am much more interested in regaining turning skills
so I can ski down a slope amid trees without as great a chance of serious
injury. I'm aerobically fit; as I said, I routinely run 10 miles at a shot,
and more important, I do one tiring hike over very rough, trailless
territory each week (usually with class 3 or 4 rock). In fact, the latter
activity makes a lot of people think that I am being overly cautious about
skiing.

(me, me, me:
http://hwstock.org/bp/html/Traverse.htm
http://hwstock.org/dams/html/DSCN6660.htm
http://hwstock.org/bripi/html/FlyingHarlan.htm
)

But my affliction requires lots of specific training so I can learn to
replace cerebellar control with cerebral control. This process is very
inefficient (there is a reason the cerebellum, though only 10% of the
brain's mass, has 60% of the neurons). I walked over 200 miles on sidewalk
curbs to regain my balance; and I took every opportunity to walk over any
rough surface, and I graded my hikes to successively harder and harder
terrain. My right foot still doesn't always move as predicted, so I've
learned to use my left foot to lead in many tight situations. Now I have to
do the same thing with skiing motions, particularly the fast motions in
turns. I'll find a way.

Thanks all, sincerely, for your help; this discussion has given me food for
thought.


Is there anything like Vermont Adaptive Sports near where
you are? They run adaptive ski programs for anyone afflicted
with anything which requires special consideration from a
leg that doesn't work quite well to blindness.

There are programs at Pico, Ascutney (I think they still
have a program) and Sugarbush that I know of in Vermont and
I'm sure there are programs in other states.

My guess is that you need someone to show you drills on
skis that will get your brain talking to your leg again,
like you did walking curbs to help regain your balance.

VtSkier
  #23  
Old February 18th 05, 09:42 AM
Peter Clinch
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Booker C. Bense wrote:

_ All I have to say is that neither England or the USA are noted
for their dominance in any kind of XC racing never mind classic.


First, don't go around saying "England" when you mean "Britain" or "UK",
eventually you'll /really/ get someone miffed... ;-)

But beyond that, though we don't win any medals that doesn't mean that
BASI folk don't know what they're talking about, and they go and get
their teaching in Norway, which /does/ have something of a history in
the sport...

Further, the way to /really/ screw technique is with a Nordic Track
machine! ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #24  
Old February 18th 05, 09:53 AM
Peter Clinch
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Ken Roberts wrote:

If I know a pretty tour that's mostly flat and gentle, I prefer to wait
until a day when the snow is pretty firm, and then _skate_ most of it on
very-light skating skis.


If you have the luxury of waiting close to something, an attractive
option. That doesn't really work in Scotland, where you can lose all
the cover overnight, or in Norway, where I have to book my holiday some
time in advance!

But also the case on a hut to hut tour with a fair sized pack that the
requirement of skating to sustain glide the whole time can make it just
too tiring over several hours.

For training endurance and speed of specific leg muscles for flat
backcountry skiing, Yes I can see value in Classic rollerskis -- but that
raises the question of:
? traditional roller skates ("quad" skates) versus
? Classic rollerskis

which I've never seen debated.


I'd guess you're better off in something where your feet flex the same
way, but in any case I've never seen trad rollers with a freewheel: you
skated them from side to side too, IM(limited)E of them.

My theory is that nordic instructors are unconsciously against inline skates
because they're afraid that if people found it how much easy fun they
could be having moving on their feet, the demand for techniques and
character-building tours of one-dimensional skiing on snow would drop.


My theory is that while that /may/ be applied to journeymen in ESF, you
don't know the friends I'm talking about well enough to extend that
generalisation to them...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #25  
Old February 18th 05, 06:22 PM
Booker C. Bense
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Peter Clinch wrote:
Booker C. Bense wrote:

_ All I have to say is that neither England or the USA are noted
for their dominance in any kind of XC racing never mind classic.


First, don't go around saying "England" when you mean "Britain" or "UK",
eventually you'll /really/ get someone miffed... ;-)


_ Sorry.


But beyond that, though we don't win any medals that doesn't mean that
BASI folk don't know what they're talking about,


_ If they recommend using roller skis for classic technique then
they don't know what they're talking about. I don't know about
ski instructors in Britain, but in the USA for both Alpine and
XC, the professional instruction organizations are notorious for
"Preaching the Way" rather than looking at results. You advance
by swallowing the koolaid and following the PSIA way...

and they go and get
their teaching in Norway, which /does/ have something of a history in
the sport...


_ Show me where Norwegians recommend roller skis for classic
technique. It only took a brief google to find this.

http://www.xcskiworld.com/training/rollerguide.htm

and I quote.

"Note: Most international class skiers rarely practice diagonal
technique on roller skis. When they use "classic" technique on
roller skis they primarily double pole and double pole kick. When
you do see top skiers striding you must keep in mind the physical
and technical base these skiers have developed over years of
training. Bottomline: Until you know what a good diagonal kick
should feel like, try to stick with double pole and especially
double pole kick when classic rolling."


Further, the way to /really/ screw technique is with a Nordic Track
machine! ;-/


_ I've only used them a couple times in the gym when they were
popular, but they seemed to be a fairly reasonable workout.
Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but I thought that they would slip
if you didn't shift weight properly. But they probably do mess
with technique in the same way as roller skis.

_ Booker C. Bense

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  #26  
Old February 21st 05, 10:32 AM
Peter Clinch
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Booker C. Bense wrote:

_ If they recommend using roller skis for classic technique then
they don't know what they're talking about. I don't know about
ski instructors in Britain, but in the USA for both Alpine and
XC, the professional instruction organizations are notorious for
"Preaching the Way" rather than looking at results. You advance
by swallowing the koolaid and following the PSIA way...


I can only speak about (and not for) the ones I personally know, but my
main point of reference looks at his personal results rather than
getting too stuck on the official "way", and has often been at odds with
the "official" line on, for example, tele instruction, which has as it
happens subsequently come round to his point of view with subsequent
development within BASI. Leading tours, another string on his bow, is
about having your clients have a good time, and he gets repeat business
and good feedback from experienced skiers. I don't think this is the
sort of thing that happens if you just spout the official party line on
how to ski well. Same man also bucks the trend in paddle coaching,
incorporating lots of open boat techniques for sea kayaks and that
certainly isn't on the syllabus. It does work though...

_ Show me where Norwegians recommend roller skis for classic
technique. It only took a brief google to find this.


"Note: Most international class skiers rarely practice diagonal
technique on roller skis. When they use "classic" technique on
roller skis they primarily double pole and double pole kick. When
you do see top skiers striding you must keep in mind the physical
and technical base these skiers have developed over years of
training. Bottomline: Until you know what a good diagonal kick
should feel like, try to stick with double pole and especially
double pole kick when classic rolling."


I think this is misleading, because serious classic athletes are likely
to use those some double pole and double pole kicks rather than a
diagonal stride on the snow in any case: they are using the rollers to
practice what they need to practice on the snow, which was rather my point.

Also, using the above to discourage roller use ignores the fact that a
potential roller skier may well actually know what a good diagonal kick
should feel like, so the quote itself exempts such a person from taking
its advice.

_ I've only used them a couple times in the gym when they were
popular, but they seemed to be a fairly reasonable workout.
Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but I thought that they would slip
if you didn't shift weight properly. But they probably do mess
with technique in the same way as roller skis.


IM(limited)E of them if you get your weight forwards, up over the
"gliding" ski, then your feet disappear backwards from underneath you.
I had to keep my weight centred between my two feet (that's along the
axis of the skis, not the axis of my hips when facing straight ahead).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #27  
Old February 21st 05, 12:03 PM
Peter Clinch
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Booker C. Bense wrote:

_ If they recommend using roller skis for classic technique then
they don't know what they're talking about.


And following up again, note I'm not trying to suggest classic rollering
will make you a benchmark classic skier, but it /should/ do better for
your technique and specific muscle tuning than a pair of blades or a
Nordic Track machine will for covering ground in straight lines without
gravity backup on skis. Getting onto what top professional track racers
do and don't use is rather going beyond this point, I think it's fair to
say.

The pal I've previously alluded to will be leading a tour out in Norway
next week, carrying a heavy pack as tour leader with all sorts of
emergency spares in. The sort of pack that means he won't be getting
the sort of glides and weight transfer he'd expect on his track gear,
but he's rollering for fitness buildup because it works the right
muscles in the right ways, according to his direct and considerable
experience. That is what I meant with "more ski specific workout".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #28  
Old March 10th 05, 11:10 AM
Martin Thornquist
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[ Booker C. Bense ]

_ All I have to say is that neither England or the USA are noted
for their dominance in any kind of XC racing never mind classic.


I'm not really into training theory and what the athletes do, but you
certainly see a fair number of roller skis on Norwegian roads in
summer.

(Yeah, late reply -- been away skiing in the Alps :-)


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp
 




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