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spring weather jacket (shell)



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 13th 04, 05:22 AM
Monique Y. Herman
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Default spring weather jacket (shell)

So, I have a Couloir ski jacket from several years ago. It has many
features: It has oodles of pockets. It covers my butt and has a powder
skirt. It fits. It's comfy. It looks good. It's warm. For Maine and
A-Basin, it's great.

Did I mention it's warm? God, is it warm. Toasty. Roasting. This
weekend, which was sunny with highs in the mid-30s and no wind, I
stripped down to just a synth thermal shirt, foregoing the usual
turtleneck, and I was *still* sweating by the first few turns.
(Granted, it was a mogul run, and some of that sweat was certainly from
fear.) It finally occurs to me that I can't strip much farther than
that without peeling off layers of skin.

This problem is pretty new to me, as my life is spent seeking out extra
layers, blankets, and hot beverages to keep myself from freezing. I'm
practically cold-blooded; that is to say, my circulation doesn't
circulate very well.

Anyhoo. My s.o. gave me a $100 REI gift certificate for Christmas, and
he recently suggested that maybe I should hunt down a lightweight shell
for spring conditions. Something wind- and waterproof with no liner
whatsoever. Being soaked in sweat on the lift is just no fun.

Off I go ...

So, apparently, lightweight stuff is just as expensive as heavy stuff.
Furthermore, lightweight stuff does not tend to have much in the way of
pockets. Women's lightweight stuff appears to be designed without any
thought to fitting layers underneath, not to mention the truly butt-ugly
shades of grey and beige that seem to be preferred. Men's lightweight
stuff is much roomier, except in the hips, which makes it difficult to
zip up.

I finally settled on this:

http://tinyurl.com/2qk6z

(REI Ultra Light Jacket, Women's XL)

$125. One breast pocket and two huge hand-level pockets, but no inside
pockets or arm pockets. It comes down far enough over my snow pants
that I'm not worried about wind sneaking in the sides. The hood is
removeable, and will certainly be removed, as it won't fit over my
helmet, anyway. It has *huge* pit vents; more like full arm and side
vents.

It sure seems like a lot of money, but there were much more expensive
options, and anyway, I could use this both as a generic rain jacket and
as a cycling layer (neither of which I currently own).

The question: does anyone have experience with this or similar styles of
jackets being used for skiing? Could anyone share their advice,
alternate suggestions, etc?

Sorry for the great american novel.

--
monique

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  #2  
Old January 13th 04, 04:32 PM
MattB
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Default

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip

The question: does anyone have experience with this or similar styles
of jackets being used for skiing? Could anyone share their advice,
alternate suggestions, etc?

Sorry for the great american novel.


I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating
liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a
detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned
(helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts warming
up.
Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex
hooded affair. I think it's like this one
http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I
forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was, but
it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take it
hiking and backpacking in the summer too.
Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap stuff,
especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I don't
like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and I
could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell for
something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's still
in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell I've
only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell
that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and sent
it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company who
stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get what
you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a
good investment.

Matt



  #3  
Old January 13th 04, 06:03 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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Default

On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:
snip

I have two shells I ski in, niether of which have any kind of insulating
liner. One is an older Patagonia Nitro shell. It's bomb-proof and has a
detatchable hood that I keep detatched for the same reason you mentioned
(helmet). I love it and wear it most of the season until it starts warming
up.
Then I switch to my Moonstone shell, which is a lighter weight Gore-Tex
hooded affair. I think it's like this one
http://www.moonstone.com/d_mshells.asp?id=083612 but a few years old (I
forget the model). The hood is not detachable (would be nice if it was, but
it's not a big deal) but it is stowable. It's nice and light and I take it
hiking and backpacking in the summer too.
Neither of these have insulation and niether are cheap. I hate cheap stuff,
especially when it comes to something I use a lot to keep me alive. I don't
like insulated jackets for active stuff because they make me too hot and I
could always layer up if I need the insulation. I've had the Nitro shell for
something like 9 or 10 years (maybe 600 days of skiing or so) and it's still
in good shape although it has faded quite a bit. The Moonstone shell I've
only had for about six years and it was a replacement for an older shell
that Moonstone gave me at a discount after I wore the older one out and sent
it in. Quality outerwear is a great investment, and choosing a company who
stands behind their products is also important. Bottom line: you get what
you pay for, and I think the $350 and $250 prices of these jackets was a
good investment.

Matt


Thanks for the insight! Naturally, the model of Moonstone that you link
isn't available in women's styles =P Then again, their women's styles
seem to cut in far too much at the waist, which I think might be a
problem for layers.

I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a
lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is
worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock.

I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and
Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have available.
The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can find, but it can't
hurt to shop around.

Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the
Boulder/Longmont area?


--
monique

  #4  
Old January 13th 04, 06:25 PM
lal_truckee
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Posts: n/a
Default

Monique Y. Herman wrote:


I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be skiing a
lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a brand name) is
worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker shock.


Survival gear is pricey - so's dying. But sticker shock can be circuvented.

What I've done for decades is to keep an eye on the discounters - North
Face outlet, REI, Wilderness Exchange, Mountain Hardware's shop-front
store (it helps to be in Berkeley occasionally, but there are others,
and there's always the net) and buy ahead of need when quality and
features meet price at an appropriately point. Which means I've kept a
brand new parka in storage waiting for it's predecesssor to wear out,
which it finally did earlier this year as illustrated by it's seams
beginning to leak, and zippers breaking, and the fraying at the cuffs,
and the various leaky glue on patches from encounters with trees . So I
just moved on to the new parka which I bought at much less than half
retail two years ago without skipping a beat. It also means I need to
start watching for my next parka at a good price and be ready to buy.


  #5  
Old January 13th 04, 06:48 PM
Monique Y. Herman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 2004-01-13, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:


I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be
skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a
brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker
shock.


Survival gear is pricey - so's dying. But sticker shock can be
circuvented.

What I've done for decades is to keep an eye on the discounters -
North Face outlet, REI, Wilderness Exchange, Mountain Hardware's
shop-front store (it helps to be in Berkeley occasionally, but there
are others, and there's always the net) and buy ahead of need when
quality and features meet price at an appropriately point. Which means
I've kept a brand new parka in storage waiting for it's predecesssor
to wear out, which it finally did earlier this year as illustrated by
it's seams beginning to leak, and zippers breaking, and the fraying at
the cuffs, and the various leaky glue on patches from encounters with
trees . So I just moved on to the new parka which I bought at much
less than half retail two years ago without skipping a beat. It also
means I need to start watching for my next parka at a good price and
be ready to buy.


That sounds like a wonderful idea. I'm not very good at shopping smart,
though, and if I bought something ahead of time, I have no doubt I'd
immediately start using my new toy, even when the old one was perfectly
good.

--
monique "impulse buyer extraordinaire"

  #6  
Old January 13th 04, 07:21 PM
MattB
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Default

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:

snip

I think your latter point is key -- I know that I'm going to be
skiing a lot, so paying for quality gear (rather than paying for a
brand name) is worth it. I guess I'll have to get over the sticker
shock.

I'll keep the tags on this REI shell and try to visit EMS, Gart's, and
Boulder Ski Deals in the next few weeks to see what they have
available. The jacket I got may end up being the best that I can
find, but it can't hurt to shop around.

Anyone have any other outdoor gear shop suggestions in the
Boulder/Longmont area?


Also see what outlets are in Silverthorn next time you're that way. I forget
what's there, but there may be a NF outet. Otherwise try googling for
Colorado outlet stores for the brands you like (or might like). I'm sure
there's some out there somewhere.

Lucky for me the Mrs works at a shop that carries Moonstone. I just got some
new pants for $85 on the employee deal. Usually I buy the stuff in the wrong
season at a big discount, but if you need it now than that's out. Something
to look out for next summer.

Another way to go is to keep an eye out for old Patagonia stuff at goodwill
shops. If you can find something that's all worn out you can send it in to
Patagonia and they may just replace it (or repair at their discretion). I
have a friend who bought a haggard Patagonia shell for $30 and then sent it
in and got a brand new one in return. Great deal!

Matt



  #7  
Old January 13th 04, 07:32 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:
On 2004-01-13, MattB penned:


Also see what outlets are in Silverthorn next time you're that way. I
forget what's there, but there may be a NF outet. Otherwise try
googling for Colorado outlet stores for the brands you like (or might
like). I'm sure there's some out there somewhere.


Actually, I believe there's a NF outlet in Boulder. I see it all the
time on the way up to the mountains =) Never been in it, though.

I browsed the EMS website and found this:

http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6

(EMS Summit Parka, Women's)

The local store has them in stock. Much heavier than the one I bought,
but looks more featureful, too. I'll check it out as soon as I get my
car back from the shop *sigh*.

Lucky for me the Mrs works at a shop that carries Moonstone. I just
got some new pants for $85 on the employee deal. Usually I buy the
stuff in the wrong season at a big discount, but if you need it now
than that's out. Something to look out for next summer.


Nice!

Yeah, I'm awful about buying things when they're most expensive.

Another way to go is to keep an eye out for old Patagonia stuff at
goodwill shops. If you can find something that's all worn out you can
send it in to Patagonia and they may just replace it (or repair at
their discretion). I have a friend who bought a haggard Patagonia
shell for $30 and then sent it in and got a brand new one in return.
Great deal!


Great deal, but I don't think I'd be comfortable doing that.

--
monique

  #8  
Old January 14th 04, 04:41 AM
Monique Y. Herman
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 2004-01-14, Bob Lee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:


Sierra Trading Post can be a good on-line source for inexpensive
quality skiing apparel. Closeouts mostly, with a lot of high-end
brands: http://tinyurl.com/3c2cb


Thank you, but I'm loathe to buy clothing online. You just can't tell
exactly how it will fit or how good the quality is. And if I find
something in a bricks-n-mortar store, I feel like I need to support
physical shops by buying there.

I returned the REI jacket -- after a day's reflection, it just wasn't
what I wanted. It seemed like a great rain jacket, but not suited for
skiing. I picked up the EMS shell I mentioned befo

http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6

(EMS Summit Parka, Women's)

It's longer, has a powder skirt, has three outer pockets and two inner,
and generally feels sturdier and more like a ski jacket. Made out of
GoreTex XCR. The XL is roomy even with long johns and a turtleneck
underneath, and it has the teeth for a zip-in liner, though I'm not a
fan of that route. My only complaints are the lack of an obvious lift
ticket spot, the lack of a bicep pocket, and the presence of a hood,
which in my opinion looks kind of dorky when rolled up. It has the look
and feel of a well-made piece of clothing, with obvious attention to
detail. I'm going to keep the tags on it a few more days before
deciding for sure, though. We'll probably be mountain biking instead of
skiing this weekend, anyway, if weather predictions hold true. It was a
$299 jacket on sale for $209, though I don't know whether EMS is one of
those "on sale all the time" kinds of places.

--
monique

  #9  
Old January 14th 04, 01:22 PM
Richard Walsh
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Default

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
:

On 2004-01-14, Bob Lee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:


Sierra Trading Post can be a good on-line source for inexpensive
quality skiing apparel. Closeouts mostly, with a lot of high-end
brands: http://tinyurl.com/3c2cb


Thank you, but I'm loathe to buy clothing online. You just can't tell
exactly how it will fit or how good the quality is. And if I find
something in a bricks-n-mortar store, I feel like I need to support
physical shops by buying there.

I returned the REI jacket -- after a day's reflection, it just wasn't
what I wanted. It seemed like a great rain jacket, but not suited for
skiing. I picked up the EMS shell I mentioned befo

http://tinyurl.com/2h3c6

(EMS Summit Parka, Women's)

It's longer, has a powder skirt, has three outer pockets and two inner,
and generally feels sturdier and more like a ski jacket. Made out of
GoreTex XCR. The XL is roomy even with long johns and a turtleneck
underneath, and it has the teeth for a zip-in liner, though I'm not a
fan of that route. My only complaints are the lack of an obvious lift
ticket spot, the lack of a bicep pocket, and the presence of a hood,
which in my opinion looks kind of dorky when rolled up. It has the look
and feel of a well-made piece of clothing, with obvious attention to
detail. I'm going to keep the tags on it a few more days before
deciding for sure, though. We'll probably be mountain biking instead of
skiing this weekend, anyway, if weather predictions hold true. It was a
$299 jacket on sale for $209, though I don't know whether EMS is one of
those "on sale all the time" kinds of places.


EMS which means EASTERN Mountain Sports is a GREAT store.
They are not necessarily a discounter, though they will have
seasonal sales. They do not sell through anyone else. They
reverse engineer other people's lines and offer them at
better prices, while the store is carrying the original.

For instance, the EMS store sells The North Face as well as
others plus its own house brand.

I bought an EMS clone of a North Face Denali fleece jacket
which is every bit as good and may be a little better
than the North Face original for 50 bucks less.

Further, I have EMS stores within 15 miles in either direction
and the home office is in Peterborough, NH, close to where my
daughter lives and is where you can get EMS closeouts and
blemished merchandise at good (though not Sierra Trading
Post) prices.

They are mountaineering specialists, not a ski shop. In fact
they don't sell any alpine gear at all. A lot of cross
country and some Tele is all. But lots of climbing gear
and GREAT clothing. The also have kayaks, canoes, and the like.

I tend to buy inner layers from Sierra. I like to get long
johns, fleece and socks from them, but I generally like to
try jackets on too.

RW

  #10  
Old January 14th 04, 04:22 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 2004-01-14, Richard Walsh penned:

EMS which means EASTERN Mountain Sports is a GREAT store. They are
not necessarily a discounter, though they will have seasonal sales.
They do not sell through anyone else. They reverse engineer other
people's lines and offer them at better prices, while the store is
carrying the original.


Interesting.

I bought an EMS clone of a North Face Denali fleece jacket which is
every bit as good and may be a little better than the North Face
original for 50 bucks less.


I guess I don't know enough about the different brands to even guess at
whether this shell is a knock-off of someone else's, let alone whose;
but it seems like a nicely made item, regardless.

They are mountaineering specialists, not a ski shop. In fact they
don't sell any alpine gear at all. A lot of cross country and some
Tele is all. But lots of climbing gear and GREAT clothing. The also
have kayaks, canoes, and the like.


This may vary by location. I've been to an EMS in Virginia that seemed
to specialize more toward watery sports. The EMS here in Boulder (yes,
despite being *eastern*, there's one here in Colorado) sells a variety
of winter stuff right now, as well as climbing, camping, etc. The shell
I bought specifically calls out skiing as a primary use.

I tend to buy inner layers from Sierra. I like to get long johns,
fleece and socks from them, but I generally like to try jackets on
too.


Okay, now I'm confused. What is Sierra and how does it relate to EMS?

--
monique

 




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