European WC meltdown ???

On 25 Jan 2005 18:05:15 -0800, "Jim" wrote:

JT
Logic you say, how about accurate quotes . When you attribute a
statement to someone and place it is quotes it should be accurate.

Our disagreement started with my response to your statement:

On 25 Jan 2005 09:20:58 -0800, "Jim" wrote:
I for one do not
believe it is developmentally sound to train so hard that performance
is eroded or comprimised for a whole year becuase of a new training
system.

Note the word "whole year."

I would appreciate an apology for your suggesting I have quoted you
inaccurately.

JT




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--- wrote:


at the 2002 Olympics which included John Bauer and Pat Weaver at
their
peaks. They've moved on now. Bauer has to be 36 and Weaver 34 or 35.

Bauer is back! He had some good results at Natls before he got sick.
And his stated goal is to ski on the relay at Turin. With 3 Olympics
and 12 Natls titles you can't count him out.

A
J doing well at U S Nationals is great but that isn't like placing in
the top 20 on the World Cup. Another question is; How good can Rob
Whitney get? The guy has loads of talent but his commitment to his
education slowed his progress. In the same position, I would have
concentrated on college too... As for the women, Rebecca Dussault can

In 1999 Whitney looked to be the great white hope of US skiing. Can he
make a comeback? We'll see...

go farther up the WC results list. Wendy Wagner is probably as fast
as
she's going to get. Young guns like Kikkan Randall, Lindsey Weier and
Lindsey Williams have tons of potential.

Let's hope so...

Rob Bradlee


=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
I'm afraid you're confused, Dell. Pete is not the coach, but the
assistant coach; I also doubt that he has a staff (he is the staff).


Not confused. Whatever the titles, I consider Pete & Trond to be equal
coaches when it comes to designing training schedules & making program
changes.

To
get a better handle on that relationship from more than just from a
nominal or hierarchical point of view, I suggest comparing what the
actual Coach, Trond Nystad, wrote about technique on the TeamToday
site
with what Pete (and Andrew and others) have been espousing.

Was there some disagreement in the ranks that blew by me, even as I
read all the articles on TeamToday ? Here is what Pete says about
technique: Go skiing. Train Hard. The corollary to that is to not
concern yourself with the minutiae of technique. A bigger engine will
get your farther. Go earn yourself the engine. I don't recall Trond
weighing in with anything different, so what is that ?

As for
training, note that asst. coach Pete has acknowledged since arriving
in
Europe this season that the world of training relative to performance
is
a whole lot more complex and less certain than he imagined.

Fair to say we pick up different nuances of Pete's writing. What I get
is: We are on the right track, we've had some bad races.

I wish them
all the best in races, yet have to wonder about reports like the one
just up after horribly blowing the wax in Pragelato, in which Pete
talks
about how they all sat around, held hands (at least figuratively
speaking), laughed, and said they weren't mad at each other. This is
World Cup, which I take to mean World Class.

Gene


This kumbya thing isn't really what I picked up. I imagine there were
tears of frustration among many, and the group all felt the burden,
athletes waxers & coaches. They turned the colossal disappointment into
positive energy instead of a blame thing that could poison the next
race.

Now that we have these petty issues resolved, I still haven't heard a
positive contribution from anyone (esp JIM) as to what concrete changes
need to be made. I am looking at the WC results of US skiers over the
past 3 years, & I am seeing encouraging results & massive improvement,
and depth. Recall back to what 2000? when US skiers would be expected
to finish in the 40's at best ? Now that is a disappointment. Don't
turn this one bad race into a commentary that the momentum of the team
needs to be changed. This season has yet to begin for these athletes.
It is hardly over.

Hmmm... So, who the head coach is and who the assistants are is a petty
issue? You let them know they're all equal? You in the UP?

Technique: For example, compare Pete and Andrew and others' "face down
the track" comments and criticisms of others over the past few years,
including on rsn, with Trond's discussion, entitled "The Way We Do It:
Technique with Trond Nystad," Aug 16, 2004. (hint: read it carefully)

So, all this stuff about classical and skating technique really hasn't
been coming from Pete; someone has been writing in his name and showing
up at USST practices and public clinics, impersonating him?

One bad race this year? Which were the not bad ones? We're all hoping
for the best... It's not easy.

I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of cliquism and have never been from the school
of psychobabble that says if one can't -- or is not in a position to --
offer suggestions, one shouldn't raise questions or say anything
critical (or anything at all).

Gene



delltodd wrote:

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
I'm afraid you're confused, Dell. Pete is not the coach, but the
assistant coach; I also doubt that he has a staff (he is the staff).

Not confused. Whatever the titles, I consider Pete & Trond to be equal
coaches when it comes to designing training schedules & making program
changes.

To
get a better handle on that relationship from more than just from a
nominal or hierarchical point of view, I suggest comparing what the
actual Coach, Trond Nystad, wrote about technique on the TeamToday
site
with what Pete (and Andrew and others) have been espousing.

Was there some disagreement in the ranks that blew by me, even as I
read all the articles on TeamToday ? Here is what Pete says about
technique: Go skiing. Train Hard. The corollary to that is to not
concern yourself with the minutiae of technique. A bigger engine will
get your farther. Go earn yourself the engine. I don't recall Trond
weighing in with anything different, so what is that ?

As for
training, note that asst. coach Pete has acknowledged since arriving
in
Europe this season that the world of training relative to performance
is
a whole lot more complex and less certain than he imagined.

Fair to say we pick up different nuances of Pete's writing. What I get
is: We are on the right track, we've had some bad races.

I wish them
all the best in races, yet have to wonder about reports like the one
just up after horribly blowing the wax in Pragelato, in which Pete
talks
about how they all sat around, held hands (at least figuratively
speaking), laughed, and said they weren't mad at each other. This is
World Cup, which I take to mean World Class.

Gene

This kumbya thing isn't really what I picked up. I imagine there were
tears of frustration among many, and the group all felt the burden,
athletes waxers & coaches. They turned the colossal disappointment into
positive energy instead of a blame thing that could poison the next
race.

Now that we have these petty issues resolved, I still haven't heard a
positive contribution from anyone (esp JIM) as to what concrete changes
need to be made. I am looking at the WC results of US skiers over the
past 3 years, & I am seeing encouraging results & massive improvement,
and depth. Recall back to what 2000? when US skiers would be expected
to finish in the 40's at best ? Now that is a disappointment. Don't
turn this one bad race into a commentary that the momentum of the team
needs to be changed. This season has yet to begin for these athletes.
It is hardly over.

It seems like most on this board are not interested in reality. Talking
about who is the real coach of the national team and who has the most
credibility is irrelevant. This is the first real coaching experience
for two of the three national team coaches.

What is reality is over the past two years results have erroded. This
is fact based on FIS points which are a calculation of the percent
behind. When folks can not see reality it is impossible to have a
discussion about what should be done.

This is not a criticism of the athletes. The coaches must come forward
and take the responsibility and present some solutions. Any one that
says things are better this year when the results are in the 40's, 50's
and 60's has a very rosy view of reality. This is a step back from past
years.

If you want to talk about concrete changes...lets get off this
discussion of who is the best coach, who is in charge and who has the
most credibility. If this whree a country with an expectation of top
performances, our coachs woulkd be answering some very direct questions
right now and expected to have good answers. So far all I see is damage
control coming from the staff!



Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
Hmmm... So, who the head coach is and who the assistants are is a
petty
issue? You let them know they're all equal? You in the UP?

Technique: For example, compare Pete and Andrew and others' "face
down
the track" comments and criticisms of others over the past few years,
including on rsn, with Trond's discussion, entitled "The Way We Do
It:
Technique with Trond Nystad," Aug 16, 2004. (hint: read it carefully)

So, all this stuff about classical and skating technique really
hasn't
been coming from Pete; someone has been writing in his name and
showing
up at USST practices and public clinics, impersonating him?

One bad race this year? Which were the not bad ones? We're all
hoping
for the best... It's not easy.

I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of cliquism and have never been from the
school
of psychobabble that says if one can't -- or is not in a position to
--
offer suggestions, one shouldn't raise questions or say anything
critical (or anything at all).

Gene



delltodd wrote:

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
I'm afraid you're confused, Dell. Pete is not the coach, but the
assistant coach; I also doubt that he has a staff (he is the
staff).

Not confused. Whatever the titles, I consider Pete & Trond to be
equal
coaches when it comes to designing training schedules & making
program
changes.

To
get a better handle on that relationship from more than just from
a
nominal or hierarchical point of view, I suggest comparing what
the
actual Coach, Trond Nystad, wrote about technique on the
TeamToday
site
with what Pete (and Andrew and others) have been espousing.

Was there some disagreement in the ranks that blew by me, even as I
read all the articles on TeamToday ? Here is what Pete says about
technique: Go skiing. Train Hard. The corollary to that is to not
concern yourself with the minutiae of technique. A bigger engine
will
get your farther. Go earn yourself the engine. I don't recall Trond
weighing in with anything different, so what is that ?

As for
training, note that asst. coach Pete has acknowledged since
arriving
in
Europe this season that the world of training relative to
performance
is
a whole lot more complex and less certain than he imagined.

Fair to say we pick up different nuances of Pete's writing. What I
get
is: We are on the right track, we've had some bad races.

I wish them
all the best in races, yet have to wonder about reports like the
one
just up after horribly blowing the wax in Pragelato, in which
Pete
talks
about how they all sat around, held hands (at least figuratively
speaking), laughed, and said they weren't mad at each other.
This is
World Cup, which I take to mean World Class.

Gene

This kumbya thing isn't really what I picked up. I imagine there
were
tears of frustration among many, and the group all felt the burden,
athletes waxers & coaches. They turned the colossal disappointment
into
positive energy instead of a blame thing that could poison the next
race.

Now that we have these petty issues resolved, I still haven't heard
a
positive contribution from anyone (esp JIM) as to what concrete
changes
need to be made. I am looking at the WC results of US skiers over
the
past 3 years, & I am seeing encouraging results & massive
improvement,
and depth. Recall back to what 2000? when US skiers would be
expected
to finish in the 40's at best ? Now that is a disappointment. Don't
turn this one bad race into a commentary that the momentum of the
team
needs to be changed. This season has yet to begin for these
athletes.
It is hardly over.

Yeah? Excuses and rationalizations are easy to come by. Hard questions
deserve answers? Top results are harder. The Phoenix will rise from
the ashes.

So, anybody, what is up with athlete development in the US for skiing?
It looks like the USSA Pipeline is working......
the Newell School is doing cool flips/fakies and pumping out sick
videos, with aerials soon to be a nordic event. Team Today is having
garage sales and emptying out their closets for ebay auctions of aged,
worn out schwag, free equipment and smelly clothes. The factory teams
have cool suits, buses leaking diesel, posters, comeback kids and
retired foreign racers.

It looks like there are alot of good athletes out there, U.S. athletes
can be world class in other endurance sports, well, except for the
doping scandals, blah, blah, blah. Lance is back in court?


Another topic, talk amongst yourselves, I gotta get a coffee: I heard
a rumor the USST head coach wasn't even at the 2005 National
Championships, what is up with that?

Time for the Phoenix to poke its head out of the ashes at the Wednesday
sprints with the locals in Pontresina.

I agree with Jim. I know who "Jim" is. "Jim" definitely knows what he
is talking about.

You want constructive comments? Here's one. Why doesn't the USST set
performance standards like other countries? Why can't a US skier go to
teamtoday.org and see the performance rules for being a member of the
USST? Like - if you are selected to the USST you have 3 years to score
WC points and then you must score x WC points per year to remain on the
USST. Like - if you aren't in the Red group you are sure as hell going
to ski in the US Nationals. Like - if you get DFL in a WC race you are
getting a one way ticket home.

What if a skier from Norway or Russian got DFL in a WC race? Do you
think they would say "Oh well, here's a lolli-pop to make you happy -
now just chill out and write about your bummer day on our groovy web
site". Hell no. That skier would be on the next plane to Oslo, or
Moscow. And if it was a "waxing mistake", then the wax tech would be
sitting on that plane too.

The deal is - countries like Norway have performance standards. High
expectations. Real passion, not hype, to prove their country is the
best. They've got a cultural drive to win ski races. If someone from
such ski-power countries is not cutting the mustard or showing promise
- they are sent home to give someone else a chance. And even
Norwegians that make WC podiums ski in their National championships.
Winning at Norge nationals very important to them.

Personally - I think the Canadians have it figured out. They don't
keep skiers on the WC or send them to the Olys unless they can prove
their worth. This ensures that Canadian skiers don't end up
embarrassing the Maple Leaf. In other words the Canadians have
standards! And geez - look - the Canadians have Becky and Sara! You
think there might be a connection here?

Setting and adhering to performance standards could give the USST more
respect: on the WC, in North America, with sponsors and even on RSN.

TK

Yes I want the discussion to involve concrete changes, not "which way
the head should be angled" and all that technical hoo-ha that masters
skiers love to waste time on that is better spent on training volume.

I would certainly have expected Kris Freeman to be back in the Red
Group by this point, and it's disappointing that he's not there. The
reality is that he spent the first half of last year in the Red Group,
and that represented progress. Top 10 finishes at major WC & U23 ski
races represents progress and reality.

Clearly the Team is not looking for a conservative approach which will
get them close, they are swinging for the fence. It's all or nothing,
and this is the downside of that approach. I'm willing to risk some bad
races for the upside tradeoff, and I'm looking forward to the Worlds.

This is a Championship year. I would not judge the year to be an entire
write off at this stage. I would wait till after the long stated goal
of the World Championships (one medal) has been met or not. At that
point the coaches perhaps should be answering the direct questions
about "what is your plan now ?" etc. Or they can be congratulated. No
psychobabble here. It's a discussion.

What changes in January can possibly help THIS season ? The athletes &
coaches must allow their training & racing to mature into this season.
Yep, there's been a lot of disappointment, I'll give you that.
Besides, Rebecca Dussault just got to Europe. Let's watch how she does,
in a supportive way. Anything but positive support adds negative
pressure to the US Ski Team coaches, assistant coaches, waxers, garage
sale clerks, executive directors, oh & athletes.

You mean this ?

The Way We Do It...

Technique With Trond Nystad

By Trond Nystad


Technique is an important part of skiing, but not the most important
part. Too many people strive to have perfect technique before they have
prepared perfectly (i.e. trained well). So before you set out to
perfect your technique, make sure that you have the strength and
fitness to be able to perform perfect technique.