Compressed Interval Block Training - Good or Bad?

Hank,

Depending on your technique and fitness level, 37 minutes in the Boulder
is possible. Maybe unlikely, but possible. You'll need a good coach,
though. And I don't want to give away 37 minutes or you might beat me....


Most of the timing I've heard of is based on actual training, not
necessarily hard science. Ideally, you probably want to be doing your final
VO2 block at least 4-5 weeks before your "peak" event. Follow the block
with 3-5 days of rest/EASY training for recovery/supercompensation, and then
proceed with your normal peaking plan.

But you will probably want to do at least one block in the fall as well.
Doing one before the season would also rule out the possibility that VO2
blocks are not for you well before it could ruin your season by spoiling
your peak.

Good Luck,

Nathan
www.nsavage.com



"Hank Garretson" wrote in message
le.com...
At 13:28 18 10 04 Monday, Nathan wrote:

In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even
though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the
Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his
PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he
attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

I would love to take 37 minutes off my Boulder Mountain Tour time this
coming February. Of course that isn't going to happen, but ...

If I do an compressed interval block, how long before the Tour should I do
it?

Ski Exuberantly,

Hank

Mammoth Lakes, Calif.

Hi Rob,

See the response I sent to Hank in the previous message.

A short race could probably be thrown into the mix, but I would hesitate
to do it because of the extreme nature of these things. They really do wipe
you out, and unless they are carefully controlled (intensity and duration),
you could end up burying yourself. That is why a race might not be a great
idea - it could put you over the edge.

It is absolutely essential not to overload the body during the intensity
block, so most people don't do anything except for the prescribed intervals
and light strength. Off days are very short, light easy distance and it is
a bad idea to try to load any sort of volume on top of the intensity.

-Nathan
www.nsavage.com

"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

--- Nathan Schultz wrote:

When should I do the program below if I want to peak for the Natl
Masters the first week on Feb?

Do it more than once? How much "normal" training in between blocks?

Could you mix in an early season race into a block?

Rob Bradlee

the
following block of training will give you a fairly good feel for
improvements while they are happening:
Day 1: Interval session 4x4 Roll SK at location 1.
Day 2: Interval session 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2.
Day 3: 4x4 Roll Classic location 3.
Day 4: 4x4 Roll SK location 1
Day 5: 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2
Day 6: 4x4 Roll CL Location 3.

Good luck, they really do work. They better, because doing a
block of
training like this can be pretty tough!

Nathan


"Tim Kelley" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm wondering what readers of rec.nordic.skiing think of the
interval
block training that the US Ski Team, for instance, is doing this
year.
Is it the wave of the future, a fad, or not a good idea?

I'm thinking that this form of training reflects the demands of new
racing formats. With mass starts becoming the predominant race
format
and sprint racing ever growing - you need to be very powerful and
able
to run your heart to the redline often to hang with breaks. I
think
compressed blocks of interval sessions will acheive these this. I
also
think this is a ballsy move on the part of the USST to go this
route.
And I appreciate the fact that they taking risks that may get them
higher on the World Cup result lists.

But I'm sure other r.s.n have different opinions. And I think this
topic may make a good discussion thread.

I'm also wondering how the Canadians national team members may be
training different that the US. These days the Canadians may not
have
a Kris Freeman ... but man, they sure have depth!! I don't every
remember seeing such strength in numbers with the Canadian men
(look at
US Nationals results or New Zealand results). Have the Canadian
men
been inspired by Golden Beckie, do they subscribe to compressed
interval block training or is the beer in Canada these days really
that
much better than US beer!?!

TK










=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

Nathan,
When you say 4x4 Roll Classic, are you referring to striding uphill? I
can get my heart rate into zone 4 by double-poling but only barely and
it takes some time to get there. I've avoided striding because I find
it difficult to keep classic rollerskis lined up and under control -
perhaps because they are so heavy - and my technique suffers.

Chris


"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message ...
Hi Tim,

I have tried the intensity blocks in my own training and with several
athletes that I coach and we've all had great success with it. The science
seems to show that a block of between 5 and 9 days works best for most
people. More than that and people kill themselves, less than that and the
VO2max increase is not as dramatic.

In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Some key elements of the intensity blocks from my experiences:
1. Level 4 training is not level 5 training. It must be done at the right
intensity to be successful.
2. An athlete must be prepared for the intensity block. As in all things
training, it is good to build up at a pace that allows your body to adapt
slowly. Don't hop off the couch and expect that doing intervals for six
days is a good idea. You need to have done at least some threshold work and
a little bit of level 4 intensity before jumping off into a block of level 4
intensity training.
3. There must be adequate rest between the intervals and between the
interval sessions. There should not be much more than strength prescribed
during the intensity blocks aside from the intensity itself. Older skiers
and those at altitude should probably not do more than 3-4 sessions in a row
without a break from intensity for a day.
4. Try to make the intensity sessions as specific as possible to gain the
biggest benefits.
5. Find a way to objectively evaluate the success of the block. There are
several ways to do this. You can do a field test or get a VO2 test before
and after the block. You can also judge this as you do your intensity block
by repeating intervals sessions throughout the block. For example, the
following block of training will give you a fairly good feel for
improvements while they are happening:
Day 1: Interval session 4x4 Roll SK at location 1.
Day 2: Interval session 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2.
Day 3: 4x4 Roll Classic location 3.
Day 4: 4x4 Roll SK location 1
Day 5: 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2
Day 6: 4x4 Roll CL Location 3.

Good luck, they really do work. They better, because doing a block of
training like this can be pretty tough!

Nathan


"Tim Kelley" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm wondering what readers of rec.nordic.skiing think of the interval
block training that the US Ski Team, for instance, is doing this year.
Is it the wave of the future, a fad, or not a good idea?

I'm thinking that this form of training reflects the demands of new
racing formats. With mass starts becoming the predominant race format
and sprint racing ever growing - you need to be very powerful and able
to run your heart to the redline often to hang with breaks. I think
compressed blocks of interval sessions will acheive these this. I also
think this is a ballsy move on the part of the USST to go this route.
And I appreciate the fact that they taking risks that may get them
higher on the World Cup result lists.

But I'm sure other r.s.n have different opinions. And I think this
topic may make a good discussion thread.

I'm also wondering how the Canadians national team members may be
training different that the US. These days the Canadians may not have
a Kris Freeman ... but man, they sure have depth!! I don't every
remember seeing such strength in numbers with the Canadian men (look at
US Nationals results or New Zealand results). Have the Canadian men
been inspired by Golden Beckie, do they subscribe to compressed
interval block training or is the beer in Canada these days really that
much better than US beer!?!

TK

Hi Chris,

I do most of my classic rollerskiing double pole or double-pole kick,
and that goes for intensity, too, but I still do occasional striding because
there is just not enough muscle mass recruited in double poling to really
hit the aerobic system as hard as skiing does.

Like you say, striding on rollerskis sucks. It is a great way to
develop a late kick, even if you really focus on kicking properly, and
rollerskis just don't track like skis. I am always surprised how awkward
rollerski striding feels after returning from a summer ski trip.

So, I think that you can make pretty strong arguments for either
including or avoiding striding while rollerskiing. It depends a lot on your
circumstances. If you are an elite skier or you have access to good
coaching and video while you are striding, then it is probably a good thing
because the coaching can keep you from developing bad habits (to a certain
extent). If you don't have really strong technique and don't have anyone to
keep you honest, you may be better off avoiding it so to avoid the bad
habits that can come with it.

-Nathan
www.nsavage.com

"Chris Pella" wrote in message
om...
Nathan,
When you say 4x4 Roll Classic, are you referring to striding uphill? I
can get my heart rate into zone 4 by double-poling but only barely and
it takes some time to get there. I've avoided striding because I find
it difficult to keep classic rollerskis lined up and under control -
perhaps because they are so heavy - and my technique suffers.

Chris


"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message
...
Hi Tim,

I have tried the intensity blocks in my own training and with
several
athletes that I coach and we've all had great success with it. The
science
seems to show that a block of between 5 and 9 days works best for most
people. More than that and people kill themselves, less than that and
the
VO2max increase is not as dramatic.

In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even
though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the
Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his
PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too
hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he
attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Some key elements of the intensity blocks from my experiences:
1. Level 4 training is not level 5 training. It must be done at the
right
intensity to be successful.
2. An athlete must be prepared for the intensity block. As in all
things
training, it is good to build up at a pace that allows your body to
adapt
slowly. Don't hop off the couch and expect that doing intervals for six
days is a good idea. You need to have done at least some threshold work
and
a little bit of level 4 intensity before jumping off into a block of
level 4
intensity training.
3. There must be adequate rest between the intervals and between the
interval sessions. There should not be much more than strength
prescribed
during the intensity blocks aside from the intensity itself. Older
skiers
and those at altitude should probably not do more than 3-4 sessions in a
row
without a break from intensity for a day.
4. Try to make the intensity sessions as specific as possible to gain
the
biggest benefits.
5. Find a way to objectively evaluate the success of the block. There
are
several ways to do this. You can do a field test or get a VO2 test
before
and after the block. You can also judge this as you do your intensity
block
by repeating intervals sessions throughout the block. For example, the
following block of training will give you a fairly good feel for
improvements while they are happening:
Day 1: Interval session 4x4 Roll SK at location 1.
Day 2: Interval session 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2.
Day 3: 4x4 Roll Classic location 3.
Day 4: 4x4 Roll SK location 1
Day 5: 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2
Day 6: 4x4 Roll CL Location 3.

Good luck, they really do work. They better, because doing a block
of
training like this can be pretty tough!

Nathan


"Tim Kelley" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm wondering what readers of rec.nordic.skiing think of the interval
block training that the US Ski Team, for instance, is doing this year.
Is it the wave of the future, a fad, or not a good idea?

I'm thinking that this form of training reflects the demands of new
racing formats. With mass starts becoming the predominant race format
and sprint racing ever growing - you need to be very powerful and able
to run your heart to the redline often to hang with breaks. I think
compressed blocks of interval sessions will acheive these this. I
also
think this is a ballsy move on the part of the USST to go this route.
And I appreciate the fact that they taking risks that may get them
higher on the World Cup result lists.

But I'm sure other r.s.n have different opinions. And I think this
topic may make a good discussion thread.

I'm also wondering how the Canadians national team members may be
training different that the US. These days the Canadians may not have
a Kris Freeman ... but man, they sure have depth!! I don't every
remember seeing such strength in numbers with the Canadian men (look
at
US Nationals results or New Zealand results). Have the Canadian men
been inspired by Golden Beckie, do they subscribe to compressed
interval block training or is the beer in Canada these days really
that
much better than US beer!?!

TK

"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message ...

Primo: Alex posted a month or so ago "Some training links"
from the Madshus site (under "News"); IIRC one of them was
relevant to the subject at hand, but unfortunately the
articles appear to be unavailable.

Anyway, the gist of it was that it can be a good idea for
spare-time and elite athletes alike to scehedule those
4x4s into a short (two-week) period rather than to spread
them out evenly over a long period. IIRC.



In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Secundo: One guy attributes the success of his training
program to workout A, another on the same program to
workout B, while the biggest single contributing factor
may well have been workout C and, in any case, the success
was essentially produced by the combination and the totality
of A, B and C and it could have been attained with a quite
different A, B or C. FWIW this is how it is IMHO with us
"cit racers" who have lots and lots of marginal to improve
by almost any kind of training.

A marathoner who can take 37 minutes off his PB (4.5 to 4,
4 to 3.5 or 3.5 to 3hrs?) is by definition very, very low
on V02max and a quick increase there can do wonders for
his marathon pace (whereas for other marathoners the only
way to improve their PBs is to increase the percentage of
V02max at which they can run the marathon).


Or am I missing something essential here?


BTW I couldn´t dream of running any kind of intervals on
nine consecutive days (whereas I *could* think of doing
different kind of XC interval sessions); what did the
interval block for this Chicago marathoner look like?


Anders

Anders Lustig wrote
One guy attributes the success of his training
program to workout A, another to workout B,
while the biggest single contributing factor may
well have been workout C and, in any case, the
success was essentially produced by the combination of A, B and C . . .
Or am I missing something essential here?

I think you're right: If you consider the complexity of human physiology and
biochemistry, the variety of genetic and environmental situations, and the
wide variability of human training-response that's getting reported in
recent years -- Then the science of statistics says that it will be very
difficult and expensive to get the evidence to prove anything about the
general validity of a particular workout sequence.

And I didn't hear anybody in this helpful discussion say anything against
that. I liked the way Nathan said to experiment and find out if it works for
_you_.

The key new thing for me is that the bicycling-stage-race result was
unexpected, based on the hard day / easy day physiological model of
training-response depicted graphically in so many books on training. The
stage-race results give evidence for some sort of multiple-hard-day "memory"
in our biochemical training-response feedback-control system. And this seems
way more plausible than the old 28-day mystical cycle which was based on
fallacious statistics (and lack of anything better).

And it's something else to fight training boredom.

Ken
_______________________________________________
Anders Lustig wrote:
"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message
...

Primo: Alex posted a month or so ago "Some training links"
from the Madshus site (under "News"); IIRC one of them was
relevant to the subject at hand, but unfortunately the
articles appear to be unavailable.

Anyway, the gist of it was that it can be a good idea for
spare-time and elite athletes alike to scehedule those
4x4s into a short (two-week) period rather than to spread
them out evenly over a long period. IIRC.



In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even
though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the
Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his
PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too
hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he
attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Secundo: One guy attributes the success of his training
program to workout A, another on the same program to
workout B, while the biggest single contributing factor
may well have been workout C and, in any case, the success
was essentially produced by the combination and the totality
of A, B and C and it could have been attained with a quite
different A, B or C. FWIW this is how it is IMHO with us
"cit racers" who have lots and lots of marginal to improve
by almost any kind of training.

A marathoner who can take 37 minutes off his PB (4.5 to 4,
4 to 3.5 or 3.5 to 3hrs?) is by definition very, very low
on V02max and a quick increase there can do wonders for
his marathon pace (whereas for other marathoners the only
way to improve their PBs is to increase the percentage of
V02max at which they can run the marathon).


Or am I missing something essential here?


BTW I couldn´t dream of running any kind of intervals on
nine consecutive days (whereas I *could* think of doing
different kind of XC interval sessions); what did the
interval block for this Chicago marathoner look like?


Anders

(Anders Lustig) wrote in message . com...
"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message ...

Primo: Alex posted a month or so ago "Some training links"
from the Madshus site (under "News"); IIRC one of them was
relevant to the subject at hand, but unfortunately the
articles appear to be unavailable.

Anyway, the gist of it was that it can be a good idea for
spare-time and elite athletes alike to scehedule those
4x4s into a short (two-week) period rather than to spread
them out evenly over a long period. IIRC.



In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Secundo: One guy attributes the success of his training
program to workout A, another on the same program to
workout B, while the biggest single contributing factor
may well have been workout C and, in any case, the success
was essentially produced by the combination and the totality
of A, B and C and it could have been attained with a quite
different A, B or C. FWIW this is how it is IMHO with us
"cit racers" who have lots and lots of marginal to improve
by almost any kind of training.

I think there is more than anectodal evidence to support the VO2 max
blocks. There was a series by Aalberg on FasterSkier that summarized
it, but it appears that the limiting factor for getting Oxygen to your
muscles is not the muscle's ability to utilize it, but the delivery
system. These training blocks are supposed to increase your VO2 max by
increasing cardiac stroke volume, which was previously thought to
plateau at 75% of max effort. I'm sure it also increases efficiency.

A marathoner who can take 37 minutes off his PB (4.5 to 4,
4 to 3.5 or 3.5 to 3hrs?) is by definition very, very low
on V02max and a quick increase there can do wonders for
his marathon pace (whereas for other marathoners the only
way to improve their PBs is to increase the percentage of
V02max at which they can run the marathon).


Or am I missing something essential here?

It's still relevant. Increasing VO2max will pull the lactate threshold
up so they will be running at a higher percentage of their previous
VO2max (MLSS) without fatigue. Of course they still have to train
their muscles for the long distances.
I just finished a 6 day block Monday and found that I was feeling very
strong at the end. 3 of the 5 workouts were running. When I went for
zone 1 hour run the next day it felt even more ridiculously easy than
normal.




BTW I couldn´t dream of running any kind of intervals on
nine consecutive days (whereas I *could* think of doing
different kind of XC interval sessions); what did the
interval block for this Chicago marathoner look like?


Anders

Since you mentioned heart rate, I will add this.. max intervals like
these is/are(?) one type of training that doesn't lend itself well to
HR monitoring. If you are talking about a 4 min interval, it's going
to take at least 30 s if not a minute for HR to get into the range you
are talking about. So, don't do the interval for 4 min at the zone 5
HR, because that turns out to be a 4.5-5 min interval at max and 5 min
is about the max amount of time you should spend at this pace. You
really need to go all out for a pace you think you can maintaini for 4
min. At the end of the interval, you can check HR and see if it is
reasonable for a max interval. On the next one, you can adjust your
effort based on this feedback. If doing a block, you will get the
feeling of the correct effort pretty quick.

(Chris Pella) wrote in message . com...
Nathan,
When you say 4x4 Roll Classic, are you referring to striding uphill? I
can get my heart rate into zone 4 by double-poling but only barely and
it takes some time to get there. I've avoided striding because I find
it difficult to keep classic rollerskis lined up and under control -
perhaps because they are so heavy - and my technique suffers.

Chris


"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message ...
Hi Tim,

I have tried the intensity blocks in my own training and with several
athletes that I coach and we've all had great success with it. The science
seems to show that a block of between 5 and 9 days works best for most
people. More than that and people kill themselves, less than that and the
VO2max increase is not as dramatic.

In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Some key elements of the intensity blocks from my experiences:
1. Level 4 training is not level 5 training. It must be done at the right
intensity to be successful.
2. An athlete must be prepared for the intensity block. As in all things
training, it is good to build up at a pace that allows your body to adapt
slowly. Don't hop off the couch and expect that doing intervals for six
days is a good idea. You need to have done at least some threshold work and
a little bit of level 4 intensity before jumping off into a block of level 4
intensity training.
3. There must be adequate rest between the intervals and between the
interval sessions. There should not be much more than strength prescribed
during the intensity blocks aside from the intensity itself. Older skiers
and those at altitude should probably not do more than 3-4 sessions in a row
without a break from intensity for a day.
4. Try to make the intensity sessions as specific as possible to gain the
biggest benefits.
5. Find a way to objectively evaluate the success of the block. There are
several ways to do this. You can do a field test or get a VO2 test before
and after the block. You can also judge this as you do your intensity block
by repeating intervals sessions throughout the block. For example, the
following block of training will give you a fairly good feel for
improvements while they are happening:
Day 1: Interval session 4x4 Roll SK at location 1.
Day 2: Interval session 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2.
Day 3: 4x4 Roll Classic location 3.
Day 4: 4x4 Roll SK location 1
Day 5: 5x4 Hill Bounding Location 2
Day 6: 4x4 Roll CL Location 3.

Good luck, they really do work. They better, because doing a block of
training like this can be pretty tough!

Nathan


"Tim Kelley" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm wondering what readers of rec.nordic.skiing think of the interval
block training that the US Ski Team, for instance, is doing this year.
Is it the wave of the future, a fad, or not a good idea?

I'm thinking that this form of training reflects the demands of new
racing formats. With mass starts becoming the predominant race format
and sprint racing ever growing - you need to be very powerful and able
to run your heart to the redline often to hang with breaks. I think
compressed blocks of interval sessions will acheive these this. I also
think this is a ballsy move on the part of the USST to go this route.
And I appreciate the fact that they taking risks that may get them
higher on the World Cup result lists.

But I'm sure other r.s.n have different opinions. And I think this
topic may make a good discussion thread.

I'm also wondering how the Canadians national team members may be
training different that the US. These days the Canadians may not have
a Kris Freeman ... but man, they sure have depth!! I don't every
remember seeing such strength in numbers with the Canadian men (look at
US Nationals results or New Zealand results). Have the Canadian men
been inspired by Golden Beckie, do they subscribe to compressed
interval block training or is the beer in Canada these days really that
much better than US beer!?!

TK

I agree with you that it is very difficult to nail down exactly what
training produced certain effects. There are just too many factors to
control around a specific performance. Diet, rest, weather, you name it,
there are thousands of factors and many are interdependent, which makes it
even more difficult to figure out what causes what.

But, that is the challenge we must face. I'm sharing my experience and
my knowledge. I'm not saying that a few people having good results proves
anything, just that in my experience it works, and everyone I've talked to
about it feels similarly.

I got the US Ski Team boys to send me some of the science behind what
they have been doing, but even they say that it is dubious just to base it
on the science. There is just not enough information to determine exactly
what the best program should be. I will forward some of the information
when I get the chance to look through it.

As for the increased VO2 max not affecting much in terms of highly
trained people, you are missing something there. Generally, it has been
shown that the threshold stays fairly constant as a percentage of VO2 max
during VO2 training periods. So, if you increase VO2max, you will therefore
increase your speed at threshold. So, even for elite athletes, these VO2
blocks offer huge possibilities.

The athlete I was referring to bettered his marathon running time from
around 4 hours to 3:30. Due to schedule constraints on his training, we did
5 level 4 workouts (about 15-20 minutes of work each session) over 6 days,
with the intensity block ending two weeks before the marathon. This is a
bit close, but that was what his schedule allowed with work and other things
going on. We then took 4 days of recovery and began speed and level 5 work
leading up until 3 days before the marathon.

One very important note is that most "part-time" athletes are not fit
enough to do more than 3 or 4 sessions in a block without at least a little
rest. So, no, you shouldn't feel like you are capable of doing 9 days of
hard intervals in a row, nor should you try. Leave that to the guys like
Eloffson.

-Nathan
www.nsavage.com

"Anders Lustig" wrote in message
om...
"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message
...

Primo: Alex posted a month or so ago "Some training links"
from the Madshus site (under "News"); IIRC one of them was
relevant to the subject at hand, but unfortunately the
articles appear to be unavailable.

Anyway, the gist of it was that it can be a good idea for
spare-time and elite athletes alike to scehedule those
4x4s into a short (two-week) period rather than to spread
them out evenly over a long period. IIRC.



In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even
though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the
Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of his
PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too
hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he
attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Secundo: One guy attributes the success of his training
program to workout A, another on the same program to
workout B, while the biggest single contributing factor
may well have been workout C and, in any case, the success
was essentially produced by the combination and the totality
of A, B and C and it could have been attained with a quite
different A, B or C. FWIW this is how it is IMHO with us
"cit racers" who have lots and lots of marginal to improve
by almost any kind of training.

A marathoner who can take 37 minutes off his PB (4.5 to 4,
4 to 3.5 or 3.5 to 3hrs?) is by definition very, very low
on V02max and a quick increase there can do wonders for
his marathon pace (whereas for other marathoners the only
way to improve their PBs is to increase the percentage of
V02max at which they can run the marathon).


Or am I missing something essential here?


BTW I couldn´t dream of running any kind of intervals on
nine consecutive days (whereas I *could* think of doing
different kind of XC interval sessions); what did the
interval block for this Chicago marathoner look like?


Anders

I have some scientific data from the US Ski Team. I'll sort through it
and try to post relevant info in the next few days.
-Nathan
www.nsavage.com

"Chris Pella" wrote in message
om...
(Anders Lustig) wrote in message
. com...
"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message
...

Primo: Alex posted a month or so ago "Some training links"
from the Madshus site (under "News"); IIRC one of them was
relevant to the subject at hand, but unfortunately the
articles appear to be unavailable.

Anyway, the gist of it was that it can be a good idea for
spare-time and elite athletes alike to scehedule those
4x4s into a short (two-week) period rather than to spread
them out evenly over a long period. IIRC.



In my experience, I've noticed that at the end of the block, even
though
I am much more tired than when I started, my times are faster and the
training feels more comfortable. One of my coaching clients freaked
out
about his intensity block that I prescribed a few weeks before the
Chicago
Marathon. He did it, though, and ended up taking 37 minutes off of
his PR
and said he could have run faster but he was too scared to open too
hard.
Out of everything that we did in preparing him for the race, he
attributed
the biggest success to the intensity block.

Secundo: One guy attributes the success of his training
program to workout A, another on the same program to
workout B, while the biggest single contributing factor
may well have been workout C and, in any case, the success
was essentially produced by the combination and the totality
of A, B and C and it could have been attained with a quite
different A, B or C. FWIW this is how it is IMHO with us
"cit racers" who have lots and lots of marginal to improve
by almost any kind of training.

I think there is more than anectodal evidence to support the VO2 max
blocks. There was a series by Aalberg on FasterSkier that summarized
it, but it appears that the limiting factor for getting Oxygen to your
muscles is not the muscle's ability to utilize it, but the delivery
system. These training blocks are supposed to increase your VO2 max by
increasing cardiac stroke volume, which was previously thought to
plateau at 75% of max effort. I'm sure it also increases efficiency.

A marathoner who can take 37 minutes off his PB (4.5 to 4,
4 to 3.5 or 3.5 to 3hrs?) is by definition very, very low
on V02max and a quick increase there can do wonders for
his marathon pace (whereas for other marathoners the only
way to improve their PBs is to increase the percentage of
V02max at which they can run the marathon).


Or am I missing something essential here?

It's still relevant. Increasing VO2max will pull the lactate threshold
up so they will be running at a higher percentage of their previous
VO2max (MLSS) without fatigue. Of course they still have to train
their muscles for the long distances.
I just finished a 6 day block Monday and found that I was feeling very
strong at the end. 3 of the 5 workouts were running. When I went for
zone 1 hour run the next day it felt even more ridiculously easy than
normal.




BTW I couldn´t dream of running any kind of intervals on
nine consecutive days (whereas I *could* think of doing
different kind of XC interval sessions); what did the
interval block for this Chicago marathoner look like?


Anders